Repainting - Qs About Primer & Clear Coat

[k9master]

Hi All,

My car (Nissan Presea R11) at the moment is undergoing some tinkering awaiting a complete paint job. The tinker has demonstrated great skill in the subject before and also has done good paint jobs for me.

Earlier, since the paint jobs were small, I didn’t go in to detail. As long as the colour matched and the finish was good I was happy. Now that the job at hand is big, I have the following questions:

Chosen base coat brand is ‘Sikkens’, no questions there.

1. Primer : What is the correct procedure here for

repainting

a. Remove paint to bare metal, apply primer, base coat and so on… (Is this done generally in repainting?)

b. Remove paint up to primer then re-apply basecoat?

c. Anything else?

2. Clear coat : Your experience with ‘Causeway High-Gloss 2k Clear’

a. My intention is to use ‘Sikkens’ Auto Clear Classic

b. But the painter insists on ‘Causeway High-Gloss 2k Clear’ + Hardener

His argument is this this is just as good and doesn’t generate nasty fumes (according to him) like ‘Sikkens’ and other brands do, in the spray process.

He says he has stopped using other clear coat brands after having a lot of complaints from the residents around the workshop.

Please help me out experts.

Thanks in advance,

K9M

Edit: Removed the unrecognized bullet point characters

Edited September 16, 2012 by k9master

[Sylvi]

K9M,

According to your post you are satisfied with the tinkering job.

(The tinker has demonstrated great skill in the subject before and also has done good paint jobs for me)

If you want a perfect job done on the paint it is better to do a paint job done inside on a paint booth under controlled temperatures with high standards.

So get same done at a place who do have a paint booth.They will advice you the best paint to do the job.

I can recommend BRJW work shop Automobile maintenance industry for decades situated on Dutugamunu Street on kokuwala road Colombo who has a paint booth.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[harshansenadhir]

Hi All,

My car (Nissan Presea R11) at the moment is undergoing some tinkering awaiting a complete paint job. The tinker has demonstrated great skill in the subject before and also has done good paint jobs for me.

Earlier, since the paint jobs were small, I didn’t go in to detail. As long as the colour matched and the finish was good I was happy. Now that the job at hand is big, I have the following questions:

Chosen base coat brand is ‘Sikkens’, no questions there.

1. Primer : What is the correct procedure here for

repainting

a. Remove paint to bare metal, apply primer, base coat and so on… (Is this done generally in repainting?)

b. Remove paint up to primer then re-apply basecoat?

c. Anything else?

2. Clear coat : Your experience with ‘Causeway High-Gloss 2k Clear’

a. My intention is to use ‘Sikkens’ Auto Clear Classic

b. But the painter insists on ‘Causeway High-Gloss 2k Clear’ + Hardener

His argument is this this is just as good and doesn’t generate nasty fumes (according to him) like ‘Sikkens’ and other brands do, in the spray process.

He says he has stopped using other clear coat brands after having a lot of complaints from the residents around the workshop.

Please help me out experts.

Thanks in advance,

K9M

Edit: Removed the unrecognized bullet point characters

Don't remove paint upto the bare metal. This way you will remove the zinc (?) protective layer applied on the metal. Also try to remove any spoilt cataloy or potty found coz they will eventually might contribute to spoil the new paint if react badly with 2k thinner which is stronger than ordinary thinner.

Don't know much about the best suited primer whether it's oil primer or lacquer primer. As for clear coat goes, I always trusted debeer and dupont

[k9master]

Don't remove paint upto the bare metal. This way you will remove the zinc (?) protective layer applied on the metal. Also try to remove any spoilt cataloy or potty found coz they will eventually might contribute to spoil the new paint if react badly with 2k thinner which is stronger than ordinary thinner.

Don't know much about the best suited primer whether it's oil primer or lacquer primer. As for clear coat goes, I always trusted debeer and dupont

Hi Harshan,

Thanks for the advise. I will check with the painter today on, what the procedure he's planning to follow and what primer he's planning to use as well.

On the clear coat, my worry is that he's insisting on using the 'Causeway' brand. I'm wondering if I should make a major fuss that and force him to use Sikkens clear coat or take the whole paint job elsewhere.

The thing is, his tinkering work is really good and I intend to use his skill in the future (specially since i'm in to 80s / 90s cars), so don't wanna ruin the rapport with him.

Everyone,

If you have any experience with 'Causeway' clear coat products please share here as it will be really useful for me.

Thanks,

K9M

[k9master]

...

So get same done at a place who do have a paint booth.They will advice you the best paint to do the job.

I can recommend BRJW work shop Automobile maintenance industry for decades situated on Dutugamunu Street on kokuwala road Colombo who has a paint booth.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Hi Sylvi,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I fully agree with you on using a booth. In fact, I did check around before I started on this.

Concerns I had:

1. Confidence - Almost all of the good but non premium places I checked had one or more bad stories about bubbles popping, peeling etc. And it was them vs. the guy who has done a few good jobs for me which didn't show any of the bad signs for over 4 years.

2. Cost - Few premium / reputed places I checked quoted around 120k, 130k just for painting. With the tinkering work it would have easily come to a 180k mark, the cash I don''t have for this job. I'm not saying i want to do a cheap job but with the current I can get all of them done for about 100k which is a good option IMO to settle for.

If you have any thoughts about the products I've mentioned please let me know.

Cheers,

K9M

Edited; Corrected Spelling

Edited September 17, 2012 by k9master

[Sylvi]

K9master,

Yes the cost is very high in a paint booth due to high cost of a paint booth (2million) or more including installing.

Paint booth Owners want to recover their cost in very quick time.

Very soon every Repair shops will have the Paint booths due to most newer Automobiles owners want correct paint jobs done on their vehicles.

About the clear coat my painter is recommending the DEBEER As member "harshansenadhir" comment my painter is swearing by that product.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[harshansenadhir]

Hi Harshan,

Thanks for the advise. I will check with the painter today on, what the procedure he's planning to follow and what primer he's planning to use as well.

On the clear coat, my worry is that he's insisting on using the 'Causeway' brand. I'm wondering if I should make a major fuss that and force him to use Sikkens clear coat or take the whole paint job elsewhere.

The thing is, his tinkering work is really good and I intend to use his skill in the future (specially since i'm in to 80s / 90s cars), so don't wanna ruin the rapport with him.

Everyone,

If you have any experience with 'Causeway' clear coat products please share here as it will be really useful for me.

Thanks,

K9M

You should be having the demand on the brand what is being used on your vehicle. Can't comment on sikkens as I haven't used it so far. But certainly I can say NO to causeway / sunny, unless otherwise you want a cheap substandard job done.

[MasterDon]

More than the booth It's the painter skill that counts.but the booth has it's advantages.What I do is do the primary paintwork at my place and send it off to a place that has a booth along with my painter for the 'final'.But as you said it is expensive.but worry not,if your painter is as good as you say he is,an outdoor paintjob should be perfectly acceptable.

And as for the paints.I think your painter is feeding you a lot of bull with the fumes and all.Some guys make up a lot of lies when they've had no experience with premium paints.Go for the Sikkens paint and clear coat combination.I'm doing the Debeer(base and pearl) and Sikkens(clear coat) combination for the TR2 and I'm pleased with the result.

[k9master]

Hi Harshan, MD,

Thanks for the responses.

Yes I do have to make a firm stand on 'Sikkens' clear coat in this case. If he makes more fuss then have to put a stop to it once the tinkering is done.

At the moment he's putting a lot of attention to the tinker work and its shaping up real nice.

Before I bought the car it had been rear ended by something and the damage the boot floor has not been repaired properly. I wanted the guy to remove all old filler and shape it to be as original as possible. With this there are adjustments to be made to the boot lid and a few panels. This work is almost done now.

Once this is complete I'm planning to have a discussion with him on the paint. Then if it doesn't work out i would have no other option than to take it elsewhere.

[k9master]

Hi All,

Yesterday, the final clear coat was applied and the car looks really good. Guys involved in the project has done a fantastic job.

Workshop is run by a duo, one specializing in tinkering and the other in paining. The tinkerer is the owner and he was the one who was bit reluctant to use 'Sikkens' clear coat. But the painter fully agreed and was happy to use the brand.

The job was finished using all 'Sikkens' material from base, clear, hardener to thinner and I've never seen the body panels looking better than this. Thanks MD, Harshan for your guidance.

Now hopefully the final question of the Series:

Cut & Polish

From what I know and whats been discussed in the other threads it's recommended to wait at least a month before the first cut & polish. The painter also agrees to this.

However he says, since everything is in the dismantled state now, the cut & polish can be done better since the doors, fenders etc are not attached and since there are no obstructions such as rubber beadings etc. So his proposition is to wait for about 2 weeks and do a complete cut & polish before everything is reattached together. He also claims that he has applied a 3 layers of clear coat and as a result an early cut & polish will not affect the finish. He says that a secondary polish can be done again after 1 - 2 months.

If i insist, he can assemble everything together and hand the car to me to run for a month and come back for a polish. But according to him there will be a risk of panel edges adjacent to glasses, beadings, panel areas covered by plastics etc. not being polished properly.

This could be an attempt to avoid future hassle of having to remove parts again.

What are your thoughts guys?

Thanks in advance,

K9M

[Davy]

If your concern is having to remove the parts again, then I can tell you that most of the parts will not get in the way of the cut and polish procedure.

In fact, the initial cut and polish in my case, was done after all the parts were fixed. The only parts that were not mounted were the badges, and the windshield water sprinklers on the hood. Masking tape is used to cover the beadings and moldings so that the sand paper doesn't damage them, and to bring the polisher across the edge.

As for the wait time, my painter says that a mild cut and polish can be done 24 hours after the paint job if and only if it was done inside a proper booth (and left for at a couple of hours under heat). If not, a one month wait is standard time for the paint to settle in.

Even in the former case (paint booth used), a full cut and polish is done after a minimum wait of about a month.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Davy

[k9master]

Hi Davy, Thanks for the response. I'll advice him to put the car back together then. Will do the polish in a month.

[MasterDon]

Give it a couple of months before doing a cut/polish.Gives the paint time to cook and settle down.

[k9master]

Hi MD,

Thanks. I have instructed the guy to put the car together without any polishing. I'll be getting it next week, finally

Planning to do the polish late December or next year.

Cheers,

K9M

[The Don]

K9M, Davy, would you mind passing me the details of your tinkerers/ painters please!

[Davy]

K9M, Davy, would you mind passing me the details of your tinkerers/ painters please!

Sent you a PM. Please check.

[Long drive]

K9M,

please send me your tinker/painters contact.

Thanks

[k9master]

Long Drive, I PMed you the details.

[Davy]

Replying to Jaliya's question in Reconditioning Emblems and Badges - Post #22

Original question was:

Davy, was your repaint done by stripping the old paint to bare metal or otherwise? Was it done in a booth and was the paint acrylic or enamel? I'm keen on getting mine resprayed in the near future (when I've got some cash, of course ) and I'm looking at available options. My current paint job is hideous and unsightly! I think my mechanic used some cheap stuff to cut corners (not his fault though, my father never wanted to spend on this after he got his new car ) and there's no clearcoat either. It's also not pure white, more of a off-white which I think is enamel paint yellowing over time.

Usually, the paint is never stripped down to bear metal unless there's something seriously wrong with the existing paintwork or if there's corrosion which needs to be repaired. The reason for this is most new cars have a zinc based protective coating around the metal to protect it from corrosion, and stripping it down to bear metal will remove this layer. On mine, only the bonnet was stripped down to bear metal from the outside, because the previous paintwork was really bad and there were bubbles and cracks all over. The rest was just smoothened out (damage repaired and primer applied wherever necessary) and repainted.

All the products that were used were Sikkens (filler, primer, base coat, clear coat etc.), and yes, it was done in a paint booth. I painted it according to the original colour code (it’s a metallic black) Cost me close to 100,000 LKR for the whole thing. Took them 3.5 weeks (estimate was 2 weeks).

If you want to do a proper paint job, I suggest you collect cash and do it properly instead of cutting corners. I had to wait a long time until I was financially strong to attempt this. And it was worth it in the end.

A link to a few photos of how the paint job went: here.

[Jaliya48]

Replying to Jaliya's question in Reconditioning Emblems and Badges - Post #22

Original question was:

Usually, the paint is never stripped down to bear metal unless there's something seriously wrong with the existing paintwork or if there's corrosion which needs to be repaired. The reason for this is most new cars have a zinc based protective coating around the metal to protect it from corrosion, and stripping it down to bear metal will remove this layer. On mine, only the bonnet was stripped down to bear metal from the outside, because the previous paintwork was really bad and there were bubbles and cracks all over. The rest was just smoothened out (damage repaired and primer applied wherever necessary) and repainted.

All the products that were used were Sikkens (filler, primer, base coat, clear coat etc.), and yes, it was done in a paint booth. I painted it according to the original colour code (it’s a metallic black) Cost me close to 100,000 LKR for the whole thing. Took them 3.5 weeks (estimate was 2 weeks).

If you want to do a proper paint job, I suggest you collect cash and do it properly instead of cutting corners. I had to wait a long time until I was financially strong to attempt this. And it was worth it in the end.

A link to a few photos of how the paint job went: here.

That's excellent, thanks!

[Jaliya48]

Replying to Jaliya's question in Reconditioning Emblems and Badges - Post #22

Original question was:

Usually, the paint is never stripped down to bear metal unless there's something seriously wrong with the existing paintwork or if there's corrosion which needs to be repaired. The reason for this is most new cars have a zinc based protective coating around the metal to protect it from corrosion, and stripping it down to bear metal will remove this layer. On mine, only the bonnet was stripped down to bear metal from the outside, because the previous paintwork was really bad and there were bubbles and cracks all over. The rest was just smoothened out (damage repaired and primer applied wherever necessary) and repainted.

All the products that were used were Sikkens (filler, primer, base coat, clear coat etc.), and yes, it was done in a paint booth. I painted it according to the original colour code (it’s a metallic black) Cost me close to 100,000 LKR for the whole thing. Took them 3.5 weeks (estimate was 2 weeks).

If you want to do a proper paint job, I suggest you collect cash and do it properly instead of cutting corners. I had to wait a long time until I was financially strong to attempt this. And it was worth it in the end.

A link to a few photos of how the paint job went: here.

Double post.

Edited December 26, 2012 by Jaliya48