2Nd Hand Market Of The Hybrid Vehicles

[bumblebee]

Im using a Toyota Axio.Wish to sell it and buy a new hybrid.But i wonder about its 2nd hand market.I've never heard of anyone using a second hand one..

In my opinion hybrid is more sophisticated and worth driving for its minimal fuel expenses.But on the otherhand its more like a computer and vulnerable to electronic damage and the battery is expensive;Further more, its said that long distance travel is not worthy than the short distance one.

The current gov budget proposal is more towards the supportin of the hybrids.So I hope more will be used in future and options would be available.

So is it worth to buy a hybrid regardless of the second hand value..?

I value your reply..

Bumblebee

Edited November 29, 2013 by bumblebee

[StarScream]

Also saying WHATEVER for a valid question makes me think that you wear panties and lipstick and pees while seated unless you are taking a dump.

I think he replied to the forum user "whatever".

[VVTi]

I think he replied to the forum user "whatever".

Ah did he.. we have a forum user called whatever?

Mea culpa.

MUST.STOP.INSULTING.PEOPLE.ON.FACE.VALUE... Lol!

Edited December 2, 2013 by VVTi

[harshansenadhir]

I will simply say this.

There is a very well known taxi company who runs a fleet of Prius 2nd generation cars. I recently had the pleasure of riding in one and noted that the fuel economy was around 12-13 in slow city running. I asked the driver why is it so low considering this is exactly the scenario that advanced hybrids (the Toyota Hybrid synergy drive system) excels in. He said when they first got the cars they used to return excellent fuel economy but now after many miles (I was also told the mileage had been doctored in the car) the battery was too weak so the engine kept cutting in even at very slow speeds leading to a decrease in fuel economy.

A Hybrid battery is only rated for a life time of about 5 years. This is a fact and with current battery technology we can't really achieve something better than this. And as you know Lithium iron batteries have issues in commercial usage as the issues with the Boeing 787 demonstrates.

Renault actually sells their electric cars through a battery hire scheme so the battery will get replaced in time.

So the degenerative fuel economy added with the recurring cost of replacement of batteries, coupled with limited expertise and dodgy mechanics makes hybrids still not an easy sell in Sri Lanka.

And ironically a lot of said this years ago and this has been proven to be true.

I mean I'm not exaggerating matters here. I can't get a UPS battery in Sri Lanka which lasts more than a year.

And I'd rather not comment on our education level

Don is spot on about the relationship between the efficiency of hybreed cars and the status of battery. In-fact hybrid cars does not do any "magic" except storing the energy which is otherwise waisted in conventional cars, for an example going down on a slopy road or during

Don is spot on about the relationship between the efficiency of hybreed cars and the status of battery. In-fact hybrid cars does not do any "magic" except storing the energy which is otherwise wasted in conventional cars, for an example going down on a slope or during braking. This energy is stored in the battery and re-used when necessary. This is the main efficiency it achieves over conventional vehicles. So when the efficiency (energy storing capacity) goes down, it’s natural that the efficiency of this “magic” car also goes down.

Ever heard of planned obsolescence? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence ) this is common for batteries of hybrid cars as well. Therefore, 5 year life expectancy is common factor for hybrids as well.

Sri Lanka should move into a status where buy a vehicle brand new and use for 5 years and then re-export or re-cycle as oppose to consider them as appreciating assets or investments which does not add any value to our economy (which indeed harmful for our economy as people do not invest on something productive)

[VVTi]

Some of those taxis in SL are way above 350K kms now. Seen one or two myself. When tehy get sold, they will mysteriously show 55oookms...

[zee boy]

bumblebee

Its too early to think about 2nd hand market, but what options you have anyway ? Petrol 2nd hand market also will be drowning in coming years , as I already mentioned the 2nd hand value of the vehicle which are cost over 2.5 Mil will be rapidly go down as everybody want to go for a hybrid these days..I have personally seen 2008 axio sold for 3.1 Mil and 2008 IST Jeep model sold for 3.0 Mil, so as you can see it's more like 700k Rs lost and no body can guarantee that this market will boost again...Regular car market is started to sink and these vehicles will be dissapered in coming years...Thats why i said its not easy to sell a petrol vehicle these days its not that Axio value has dropped down but its just that you will find it very very hard to find a buyer for a petrol car which cost more that 2.5 or 3 Mil. Any one who have over 3 Mil budget would be going for a Hybrid..and once Axio hybrid comes in to the picture it will be a nightmare to sell your 2nd hand regular axio..things will be worse if or when the allion and premio turns in to hybrids.

And on the other hand, GOV has reduced the hybrid tax to promote hybrids in Sri Lanka, and once the hybrid trend gets going GOV will surely increase the hybrid tax..early stage of hybrid migration in sri lanka, people could buy a Prius for a less than 3.0 Mill with the initial tax (there were less tax in the beginning) so now if you check the 2nd hand Prius advertisement all of them are above 3.2 Mil at least, that's where the 2nd hand market stand, I don't know whether there are buyers for them but you can simply make a call to an old advertisement and ask whether he still have the car or sold out, if it's sold you can ask him the price which deal took place..

And I dont think electric cars will be a success specially in Sri Lanka, some reasons are they are not set for long trips where for 4 hour charge you can go only 120Km and other reason is we do not have that much of electricity to cater all the vehicles in this country, even if it does electricity cost will be high and it wont be economical compared to hybrid or regular cars...may be the future will be plug in hybrid for next few years where you have both options...

Well what I was thinking when I bought a Honda FIT was-

Simply my budjet was around 3Mil and there were/are no any other brand new vehicle you can buy for that price range with the latest technology and all, also I knew that Hybrid taxes will go up and we should act now to get some benefit in the future..In Japan, hybrid cars are more expensive than the Petrol cars..In Japan Auction you can buy a 2012 Allion for 1200000 JPY but Prius 2012 would be 2000000 JPY, its the tax deduction what makes them cheap in Sri Lanka.

So anyway..about the 2nd hand market..In my opinion I think there will be separate markets for all the hybrid flavors where a different market for Honda semi hybrids and a different market for full hybrids and another market for plug in Hybrid..

Edited December 2, 2013 by zee boy

[harshansenadhir]

Some of those taxis in SL are way above 350K kms now. Seen one or two myself. When tehy get sold, they will mysteriously show 55oookms...

talking about taxis, once got into a prius cab to go on a customer visit along with 03 other colleagues.

Driver took off fast through the ramp at office and it got hit on the ground so hard and loud. Then he still tried to roll it away and I couldn't stand the screeching sound and got off.

Talk about the very low ground clearance and god knows what these cars have gone through.

[Sylvi]

talking about taxis, once got into a prius cab to go on a customer visit along with 03 other colleagues.

Driver took off fast through the ramp at office and it got hit on the ground so hard and loud. Then he still tried to roll it away and I couldn't stand the screeching sound and got off.

Talk about the very low ground clearance and god knows what these cars have gone through.

Harshnsenadhir,

Most taxi drivers do not care about the safety of the vehicle they drive. They do not think, they earn a living from that vehicle.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[bumblebee]

The hybrid cars can run with only gasoline and gasoline-electric dual mode with the battery support.

My point is ,when the battery is out in 5-10yrs time,still they can run with gasoline(but no longer can be called hybrids).

Cant we consider this as an advantageous point in hybrids in long term...?

Open for debate........

Bumblebee

Edited December 3, 2013 by bumblebee

[Watchman]

The hybrid cars can run with only gasoline and gasoline-electric dual mode with the battery support.

My point is ,when the battery is out in 5-10yrs time,still they can run with gasoline(but no longer can be called hybrids).

Cant we concider this as an advantageous point in hybrids in long term...?

Open for debate........

Bumblebee

Not all hybrids.

The Insight OR the prius (i dont recall which) cannot run at all if the battery goes bust. It was discussed before, so you can try reading up on the previous hybrid threads.

Now lets think of the start of this thread. You came here asking for people's opinion on if you should sell your axio and buy a hybrid. People told you what they think you should do and what they think the foreseeable future would be like. But instead of taking that all in, you're not trying to convince other people why hybrids are so good. What's your point. Don't you have a job to do? or a family/friends to spend time with? Go do that man! Don't loose sleep over a decision that might not even pan out to save you any money in the end. Spend that time with those that you care about and you enjoy spending time with.

[Sylvi]

Members,

Some news about Hybrid cars.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/24/perceptions-electric-cars-thanks-tesla-flipping-peoples-perceptions/

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Watchman]

Members,

Some news about Hybrid cars.

http://cleantechnica.com/2013/11/24/perceptions-electric-cars-thanks-tesla-flipping-peoples-perceptions/

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

you're kidding right??

Did you even read the article before publicizing it? It's about electric cars. NOT hybrids. Heck, it doesn't even have the word hybrid mentioned in it!

[bumblebee]

Not all hybrids.

The Insight OR the prius (i dont recall which) cannot run at all if the battery goes bust. It was discussed before, so you can try reading up on the previous hybrid threads.

Now lets think of the start of this thread. You came here asking for people's opinion on if you should sell your axio and buy a hybrid. People told you what they think you should do and what they think the foreseeable future would be like. But instead of taking that all in, you're not trying to convince other people why hybrids are so good. What's your point. Don't you have a job to do? or a family/friends to spend time with? Go do that man! Don't loose sleep over a decision that might not even pan out to save you any money in the end. Spend that time with those that you care about and you enjoy spending time with.

Merci beaucoup Watchman...I value your advise.

[Amila G]

Rather than worry about fuel economy I prefer the satisfaction of more spirited driving & leaving some ***holes eating my dust once in a while

Well said, that's exactly why I'm drooling for a luxel, hoping the petrol car market will crash and one will become to the affordable range

[Sylvi]

Members,

I do not just post a web link, without going through that.

First Hybrid vehicles in the world which are on record.

Gasoline powered Vehicles existed for very long time. EV combined came little later.

Only recently the Modern Hybrid came to Automobile history. After 1997. Japanese did first modern Hybrid vehicles.

Although this type was first made over 100 years ago in western countries.

Hybrid is a electric with modern technology Vehicle assisted by Gasoline Engine.To give more distance.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Warlord]

Well said, that's exactly why I'm drooling for a luxel, hoping the petrol car market will crash and one will become to the affordable range

Why Luxel ??? For that matter. I'm sure you'd get plenty of good machines for speed , lower than the Luxel budget

[bumblebee]

Fewdays ago in a gathering with my professional friends I asked my hybrid-owner friends, that how they were really going to sell their hybrid after 5 yrs...They didnt have a proper answer..Finally Wt I collcted was they will sell it for whatever the market that's going to appear and most probably will be under valued.

[isam]

You are spot on If you think about the fuel efficiency.. but for 3.2Mil you will get a way better driving pleasure than what you have in GE 6, FIT hybrid comes with tiptronic, sports gear and all the other latest Honda technology… and of course you cant buy a 2013 brand new vehicle for the price of 2006 model. It’s a silly comparison…

And don’t forget, according to US news ranking the 2^nd best hatchback in 2013 is Honda FIT…but if your price range is 2.6 then you should stick to what you have...

I can't imagine why he used the words driving pleasure and tiptronic, sports gear in the same sentence. I guess this is a matter of personal taste; but for me, the only way to get the best driving pleasure is to use manual transmission.

So, Zee Boy, driving pleasure is a relative term. What's pleasurable to you is not worth calling a pleasure to someone else.

And if you are truing to take decisions based on US rankings in Sri Lanka, you'll be in big trouble. Remember this is the 'Land like no other'.

[isam]

Hybrods are the new religion.... you get the converts, skeptics, the crazy happy clappies and the Aethists...

My take now on Hybrids are let and let live...

You can sing all you want, you can cry all you want, just don't tell me I should join. Let my 10 year old, no paddle shift, no ECHO drive, no fancy gizmo gas guzzling earth killing sinner be...

Amen!

[Komisiripala]

Isam (apple keeps autocorrecting you to "Islam") don't be so hasty to scorn tiptronic. I'm a three pedal convert myself but still most of the new super/hyper cars have done away with the manual gearbox. I don't think Ferrari offers them any more, and Lamborghini only gives it as a custom add on.

And there is something hella cool about flipping those paddles, having a twin clutch box match your revs and hear a v8 scream in less time than it takes your spinal cord to tell your hairs in your a$$ to stand on end...

[MV-5]

Isam (apple keeps autocorrecting you to "Islam") don't be so hasty to scorn tiptronic. I'm a three pedal convert myself but still most of the new super/hyper cars have done away with the manual gearbox. I don't think Ferrari offers them any more, and Lamborghini only gives it as a custom add on. And there is something hella cool about flipping those paddles, having a twin clutch box match your revs and hear a v8 scream in less time than it takes your spinal cord to tell your hairs in your a$$ to stand on end...

I think most of super cars use "Manual gear box". the only difference is that they have switched to "Sequential transmission" which actually uses a Clutch and manual gear box.

But "Tiptronic" is just a forcefully up/down shift mechanism which is used with "Auto gear box".

anyway , what i think is , "Manual" lovers can not be satisfied by Tiptronic.

[The Don]

I think most of super cars use "Manual gear box". the only difference is that they have switched to "Sequential transmission" which actually uses a Clutch and manual gear box.

But "Tiptronic" is just a forcefully up/down shift mechanism which is used with "Auto gear box".

anyway , what i think is , "Manual" lovers can not be satisfied by Tiptronic.

You are right MV-5, they are electronically operated mechanical gear boxes, not ones based on ATF fluid or CVT chains. Most use double clutch systems where while one is engaged the other is kept ready to switch over (the ECU makes this decision). This is not the same as tiptronic in the conventional sense, but you can give the user a tiptronic feel (as in have a stick which you move up and down)

[Kavvz]

Isam (apple keeps autocorrecting you to "Islam") don't be so hasty to scorn tiptronic. I'm a three pedal convert myself but still most of the new super/hyper cars have done away with the manual gearbox. I don't think Ferrari offers them any more, and Lamborghini only gives it as a custom add on. And there is something hella cool about flipping those paddles, having a twin clutch box match your revs and hear a v8 scream in less time than it takes your spinal cord to tell your hairs in your a$$ to stand on end...

I think most of super cars use "Manual gear box". the only difference is that they have switched to "Sequential transmission" which actually uses a Clutch and manual gear box.

But "Tiptronic" is just a forcefully up/down shift mechanism which is used with "Auto gear box".

anyway , what i think is , "Manual" lovers can not be satisfied by Tiptronic.

You are right MV-5, they are electronically operated mechanical gear boxes, not ones based on ATF fluid or CVT chains. Most use double clutch systems where while one is engaged the other is kept ready to switch over (the ECU makes this decision). This is not the same as tiptronic in the conventional sense, but you can give the user a tiptronic feel (as in have a stick which you move up and down)

Yeap, there's a big difference in shift times between semi-automatic systems using dual clutch set-ups and the up/down shift mechanism which is available via some automatic transmissions.

You don't however need to buy a super car to get your hands on a semi-automatic transmission with a dual clutch setup. BMW offers it as an option, as well as Audi / VW via their SMG and DSG semi-automatic transmission set-ups respectively. (You can pick up entry-level models with this option like the 3 Series, A4, Jetta, Golf, Beetle etc. They probably don't shift as fast as the ones on Ferrari's or Lambo's though; but still offer a decent option over regular automatics and are noticeably more responsive.)

Edited December 20, 2013 by Kavvz

[Crosswind]

Yeap, there's a big difference in shift times between semi-automatic systems using dual clutch set-ups and the up/down shift mechanism which is available via some automatic transmissions.

You don't however need to buy a super car to get your hands on a semi-automatic transmission with a dual clutch setup. BMW offers it as an option, as well as Audi / VW via their SMG and DSG semi-automatic transmission set-ups respectively. (You can pick up entry-level models with this option like the 3 Series, A4, Jetta, Golf, Beetle etc. They probably don't shift as fast as the ones on Ferrari's or Lambo's though; but still offer a decent option over regular automatics and are noticeably more responsive.)

2012 Ford Focus comes with DCT. The 2011 version I have, has a semi-auto box (no DCT).

I took a test spin on a 2012 Focus (managed to take a fairly long ride because I know the folks at the agents)

DCT responsiveness is pretty bad to be honest. But it could just be Ford's way of messing it up. Ford is NOT known for building reliable gearboxes.

[Kavvz]

2012 Ford Focus comes with DCT. The 2011 version I have, has a semi-auto box (no DCT).

I took a test spin on a 2012 Focus (managed to take a fairly long ride because I know the folks at the agents)

DCT responsiveness is pretty bad to be honest. But it could just be Ford's way of messing it up. Ford is NOT known for building reliable gearboxes.

Its possible Ford Botched it up. I googled and it seems there is a lot of negativity surrounding the transmission on the 2011 Focus, and a recall by Ford. On the 2014 Focus I see they are offering it as an option (as the 'dual dry-clutch PowerShift 6-speed automatic' ) and from the description it seems to be on the money, hopefully they sorted it out?

If Ford uses the same six speed transmission across their line, then its probably bad news, for I had a 2013 Ford Fesita on rent for about three weeks with their basic six speed automatic transmission and that was a mess. The transmission incorporated a manual shift mode (regular automatic with a manual override) and it got so confused when I shifted down rapidly and accelerated, that it would freeze up and not do anything at all for 3-4 seconds and then abruptly throw some power at the wheels after shifting down. Hopefully they have sorted things out or that this is not the same transmission that's offered in their more upscale models. (Having said that I do have to add that while the Festiva hatchback is one of the most entry level offerings from Ford it had a very nice interior and exterior and its probably optimized for fuel economy rather than spirited driving. When left in auto mode and driven like a petrol hinganna it was frugal to the point where the fuel figuares almost crossed over into hybrid territory, so certainly the transmission and engine setup was not at all bad for that purpose.)

I do wish that manufacturers would stick to the pull DOWN to shift up and push UP to shift down for manual modes though. Its so bloody annoying when its reversed, and every manufacturer seems to believe in changing it around for some reason.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Kavvz

[nira74]

The hybrid cars can run with only gasoline and gasoline-electric dual mode with the battery support.

My point is ,when the battery is out in 5-10yrs time,still they can run with gasoline(but no longer can be called hybrids).

Cant we consider this as an advantageous point in hybrids in long term...?

Open for debate........

Bumblebee

If you own a Hybrid and the Battery pack up, wouldn't it be more sensible to replace the Battery rather than try to run in on Gas only ? I don't think anyone would want to buy a Hybrid with a dud battery unless you sell it very very cheap. ....