Toyota Probox Review

[LaRa]

Hi Guys,

I have an Idea to buy a Totota ProBox wagon. It comes with the intercooler turbo commonrail 1400 CC diesel engine.

Does anyone uses this model? What is your pros and cons about this car? since it is not much familiar vehicle.

Thanks & Regards.

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Catalog 2012 April

http://cdn.toyota-catalog.jp/catalog/pdf/probox-w/probox-w_201204.pdf

[JadeyBlitzen]

pros: torquey engine. good acceleration in and out of traffic, good fuel economy

cons: engine parts are rare and engines full of electronics, so when something goes wrong you'll have better luck getting parts down from europe through ebay

This is one of those rare japanese engines we get here that are made to contemporary european standards. so you'll have to treat it like a euro engine for most part.

[Magnum]

pros: torquey engine. good acceleration in and out of traffic, good fuel economy

cons: engine parts are rare and engines full of electronics, so when something goes wrong you'll have better luck getting parts down from europe through ebay

This is one of those rare japanese engines we get here that are made to contemporary european standards. so you'll have to treat it like a euro engine for most part.

Probox comes from japan isn't it? bdw what engine does it have?

[iRage]

The diesel engine I think was the 1ND-TV unit. The Succeed and Probox are categorized as business vehicles and have a good reputation over here for being a good workhorse.The diesel was offered only as a fleet vehicle. So obviously you have to take in to consideration the unit might have been a fleet car when being imported in to the country.

[osaka_dude]

pros: torquey engine. good acceleration in and out of traffic, good fuel economy

cons: engine parts are rare and engines full of electronics, so when something goes wrong you'll have better luck getting parts down from europe through ebay

This is one of those rare japanese engines we get here that are made to contemporary european standards. so you'll have to treat it like a euro engine for most part.

true,the share of new diesel cars sold in japan is almost going near zero(despite being around 55% in Germany).

It is not worth to invest millions of dollars for developing diesel cars with parts from Japanese suppliers for japanese market.

On the other hand Toyota develops Diesel cars for the EU market,with parts from EU suppliers.

Then they just import these to Japan for the small sales volume.

So you will be buying a Euro engine with a Toyota badge.

Edited April 9, 2014 by osaka_dude

[iRage]

true,the share of new diesel cars sold in japan is almost going near zero(despite being around 55% in Germany).

It is not worth to invest millions of dollars for developing diesel cars with parts from Japanese suppliers for japanese market..

Okay....so this can be misunderstood as an entire diesel engine industry getting cut off at the feet !

Since 2000 vehicle emissions regulations were getting stricter in Japan. In 2005 Japan got new stricter environmental regulations which were not favorable for diesel engines of the time (the engines had to be have >70% or something improvement than what was currently available at the time and in most cases had to be retro fitted with PM filters and what not for them to be considered roadworthy).

As a result different manufacturers took different routes. Thus the reason why diesel Prados, Land Cruisers, etc...disappeared around that time whilst the Pajero, etc didn't. The likes of Nissan, Mitsubishi etc...invested in developing clean diesel engines for both commercial and passenger vehicles whilst Toyota on its Hybrid binge at the time decided to go a more Hybrid heavy direction for their passenger car line-up.

Whilst diesels WERE nearing Zero....not the case anymore....About two years ? or was it last year....Clean diesels too fell in to the subsidies for fuel-efficient vehicles (usually these were around 150000 yen so I would imagine the diesels too got something around the ball park). With all these put together diesels are making a come back in Japan. I think quite a lot of the CX-5 and Atenza orders were for diesels because of the subsidies and higher gas mileage.

So it is not that it is not worth developing diesel engines in Japan with Japanese parts...It is just that Toyota decided not to pursue the development of diesel engines for the JDM and since they were developing diesel engines for other regions they utilizes those engines as the base for some of their diesel cars in Japan (especially in the EU...I would reckon this is because diesels over there meet Japanese regulatory requirements alot better ?)

Drove a Diesel Skyactive Axela and whilst it sounded like a tractor outside inside the car it was reasonably well-composed but still felt miles apart compared to some of the diesel euros I have gotten my hands on.

[Crosswind]

true,the share of new diesel cars sold in japan is almost going near zero(despite being around 55% in Germany).

It is not worth to invest millions of dollars for developing diesel cars with parts from Japanese suppliers for japanese market.

On the other hand Toyota develops Diesel cars for the EU market,with parts from EU suppliers.

Then they just import these to Japan for the small sales volume.

So you will be buying a Euro engine with a Toyota badge.

[osaka_dude]

Whilst diesels WERE nearing Zero....not the case anymore....About two years ? or was it last year....Clean diesels too fell in to the subsidies for fuel-efficient vehicles (usually these were around 150000 yen so I would imagine the diesels too got something around the ball park). With all these put together diesels are making a come back in Japan. I think quite a lot of the CX-5 and Atenza orders were for diesels because of the subsidies and higher gas mileage.

first ,take a look under a "clean diesel" car bonnet,and you will see all sensors,actuators,control units are from Bosch Germany.

In fact,"clean diesel " campaign was started by Bosch in japan around 2007 to promote diesel engine systems for passenger cars.

So it is not that it is not worth developing diesel engines in Japan with Japanese parts...It is just that Toyota decided not to pursue the development of diesel engines for the JDM and since they were developing diesel engines for other regions they utilizes those engines as the base for some of their diesel cars in Japan (especially in the EU...I would reckon this is because diesels over there meet Japanese regulatory requirements alot better ?)

aren't you saying the same thing I said in a different way?The only non-EU diesel engine system is offered by Mazda with the Skyactive series.All others such as Nissan Xtrail come from EU supplier Bosch.Toyota is even giving up diesel engine development in Europe where the market is big.To save costs,they borrow a diesel Engine developed by Bosch and BMW for a Mini,and placed it in the N47D16 engines.

http://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/the-toyota-alliances-bmw-part-1-the-first-volley/

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20131202/ANE/131129856/toyota-verso-to-get-bmw-diesel

Edited April 10, 2014 by osaka_dude

[The Don]

first ,take a look under a "clean diesel" car bonnet,and you will see all sensors,actuators,control units are from Bosch Germany.

In fact,"clean diesel " campaign was started by Bosch in japan around 2007 to promote diesel engine systems for passenger cars.

aren't you saying the same thing I said in a different way?The only non-EU diesel engine system is offered by Mazda with the Skyactive series.All others such as Nissan Xtrail come from EU supplier Bosch.Toyota is even giving up diesel engine development in Europe where the market is big.To save costs,they borrow a diesel Engine developed by Bosch and BMW for a Mini,and placed it in the N47D16 engines.

http://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/the-toyota-alliances-bmw-part-1-the-first-volley/

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20131202/ANE/131129856/toyota-verso-to-get-bmw-diesel

Well Toyota is not the end all of Japanese motoring. Many Japanese manufacturers jointly developed diesel technology with European manufacturers as Europe has adopted diesels in a big way. They suit enviromental restrictions and tax laws better, which rely on Co2 per km more than any other measure (as Diesels offer more power for amount of fuel burnt this works out rather well).

Mitsubishi collaborated heavily with PSA and both have elements of their technology in their Diesel engines.

Nissan Diesel engines are nearly entirely developed by Renault after the take over. Pop the bonet and you will see Bosch parts everywhere.

But pop a Honda Diesels engine and you see Denso everywhere, as Honda has stuck to home grown technology.

Its important not to generalise too much as the trends are changing all the time.

PSA have already started selling Diesel Hybrids, and I expect to see loads of hybrids and EVs introduced by many manufacturers. But I think at least BMW plans to reintroduce Diesels back to the US market....

[iRage]

first ,take a look under a "clean diesel" car bonnet,and you will see all sensors,actuators,control units are from Bosch Germany.

In fact,"clean diesel " campaign was started by Bosch in japan around 2007 to promote diesel engine systems for passenger cars.

aren't you saying the same thing I said in a different way?The only non-EU diesel engine system is offered by Mazda with the Skyactive series.All others such as Nissan Xtrail come from EU supplier Bosch.Toyota is even giving up diesel engine development in Europe where the market is big.To save costs,they borrow a diesel Engine developed by Bosch and BMW for a Mini,and placed it in the N47D16 engines.

http://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/2012/07/22/the-toyota-alliances-bmw-part-1-the-first-volley/

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20131202/ANE/131129856/toyota-verso-to-get-bmw-diesel

Gosh..this guy completely misses the point doesn't he ????

For starters I said right at the beginning that the way you said it can be misunderstood and can be lead to believe that Japan does not invest in diesel engines and that Japan does not like Diesel engines. Thus, my post was to reflect on the actual facts that effected the popularity and utility of diesel engines in Japan.

I never said that the components were not made else where or by anyone else...heck even if you take gasoline engines you will realize that a lot of parts are made outside of Japan and in quite a few cases even from Thailand ! You do not need to have a Ph.D in economics to figure out why any manufacturer would do this !!!

Also there is nothing wrong with a Euro engine with a Toyota badge on it...did you also know that there used to be Mazda engines with Ford badges, Toyota engines with Chevy badges oooh...and Toyota engines with Geely (that is from China by the way....just stating since Geely is not available in Japan) badges ??? Just because the components are made some where else it does not mean it is not profitable for them to do it !

Also !!! BOSCH has manufacturing plants in Japan. I know most of the components you mentioned and required for the clean diesel engines are manufactured in their plants in Saitama (there is another one in Gunma); so just because something has a European brand label in it it does not mean it was manufactured all the way in Europe and shipped all the way to Japan ! In fact BOSCH gasoline injectors are actually supplied (most of it) by Nippon Injector Corporation.

Also, the Nissan M9R engine was developed by Renault; for which BOSCH could very well be a component supplier (I am not sure if the M9R is actually assembled in Europe or in Japan but considering the extent of the engine's usage I won't be surprised if it was in Japan). I know BOSCH Engineering develops engines (perhaps even the M engine with Renault/Nissan) but I did not know BOSCH themselves manufactured the engines(I will leave this open for a reliable source confirm) (There are a few Sri Lankan companies that supply components for airbags and dashboards that does not make it Sri Lankan made with a Japanese badge on it).

The Toyota BMW partnership for diesels is actually somewhat old news...I guess you would also make the ground breaking discovery and announce to us that BMW and Toyota are jointly making a sports car ?

BOSCH's clean diesel technology runs way before 2007. It is just that in 2007 it went main stream in a Japanese passenger vehicle (I guess you were referring to the X-Trail because Nissan did a huge marketing campaign for the X-Trail with the buzz word Clean Diesel). If you actually do some intelligent reading up you will also realize that Clean Diesel technology...by BOSCH was utilized in quite a few commercial vehicles prior to 2007 (okay maybe they were not as clean as in 2007 because the technology was and is still evolving). Why did it take till 2007 for passenger vehicles to catch on ? Because for commercial vehicles the requirements were a bit more lax. In fact clean diesel Euros were on sale in Japan before it is just that they never caught on because people were skeptical about it and the extra cost of diesel with the lack of subsidies at that time and the additional cost of the car being a euro was a major detractor.

I have noticed a trend on the forums since last Friday or Saturday...almost all the threads have gone off topic in an attempt to get the thread back on topic again. I wonder why that is...

So to get back on topic:

JadeyBlitzen Stated:

pros: torquey engine. good acceleration in and out of traffic, good fuel economy

cons: engine parts are rare and engines full of electronics, so when something goes wrong you'll have better luck getting parts down from europe through ebay

This is one of those rare japanese engines we get here that are made to contemporary european standards. so you'll have to treat it like a euro engine for most part.

iRage stated:

The diesel engine I think was the 1ND-TV unit

The 1ND-TV engine is developed in partnership with Peugeot/Citreon

[kirala2]

But I think at least BMW plans to reintroduce Diesels back to the US market....

BMW has been selling several diesel engins in the USA for couple of years now.

The 3 series is available as a 328d sedan, 328d xDrive sedan and a 328d xDrive Sports Wagon.

5 Series is available in 528d sedan and a 528d xDrive sedan.

7 series is available in 740Ld xDrive Sedan

X3 is available as a 28d xDrive

X5 is available as a 35d xDrive

Diesels are making a huge comeback in USA.