Nissan March Engine Misfire (Cr14De )

newone · July 11, 2014

Hi guys, Need a help from you all to find out what happend to my nisan March BK12 . I am really worried about the things happend with it since last month.. here what happened...

1. Around 5 weeks ago I felt the car is not accelerating properly. engine is getting slower when accelerating. mostly when overtaking and hard accelerating. So I went to my mechanic and he said it may be problem with fuel filter. So he removed the filter ( actually the fuel filter, fuel pump and the fuel gauge comes as a combined unit) and adviced me to replace it. since the whole unit is cost around 38k , he advice me to buy a reconditioned one. So I bought a one from a place near attidiya junction. He checked it and fixed it. So the problem solved.

2. after running around 50km , The engine started to misfire.( started to cough ). Again went to the mechanic and he said there may be a problem with ignition. So he checked the spark plugs and coils. he told the spark plug gap was higher than the usual and that may be a problem.( spark plugs are NGK normal ones and done aroung 6000Km) . So he adjusted the gap and fixed them again. Then again the issue seems solved.

3. again after around 200Km engine again started to misfire. but this time it only happens when engine is on ideal. when as long as pressing the accelerator it wont come. When in N. P or D with break , the issue is there... also there is a pop-pop sound coming from the silencer. A attached a video to get a clear idea.

Please guys , can you advice me what happened ? and a good mechanic near moratuwa, kohuwala area.

Fixzit · July 11, 2014

Try checking with a scanner.. it should give you a code for misfire. . There could be many reasons. . I think that's the best way..

Fixzit · July 11, 2014

You can also check the spark plugs whether they are firing and whether the spark is the same in all plugs..

newone · July 11, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 9:48 AM, Fixzit said:
Try checking with a scanner.. it should give you a code for misfire. . There could be many reasons. . I think that's the best way..

thanks Fixzit .. Is there any place you recommend ?

Fixzit · July 11, 2014

I live overseas so im sorry I don't know many places in SL.. you can always try the agents..or the other experts here will be able to help you im sure..

GayanR · July 11, 2014

It's most probably a coil pack issue.Get a engine scan report done at A*W.

The Don · July 11, 2014

With coil pack issues, normally the mis fire continues a little even when you accelorate, and you should feel a loss of power.

Getting a scan done is a good idea since it could be one of the sensors as well, particularly the cam position sensor (notorious issue with some Nissan engines) and airflow sensor issues.

Take it to either Pit stop or Nissan Agents close to Salve Island and get a report. It will help pin point the issue. Go early in the morning and phone the day before to make an appointment so you don't have to wait too long.

For good mechanics, follow this thread

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/15974-good-mechanics-technicians-workshops/

Edited July 11, 2014 by The Don

newone · July 11, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 9:59 AM, GayanR said:
It's most probably a coil pack issue.Get a engine scan report done at A*W.

On 7/11/2014 at 10:42 AM, The Don said:
With coil pack issues, normally the mis fire continues a little even when you accelorate, and you should feel a loss of power.
Getting a scan done is a good idea since it could be one of the sensors as well, particularly the cam position sensor (notorious issue with some Nissan engines) and airflow sensor issues.

Take it to either Pit stop or Nissan Agents close to Salve Island and get a report. It will help pin point the issue. Go early in the morning and phone the day before to make an appointment so you don't have to wait too long.

For good mechanics, follow this thread

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/15974-good-mechanics-technicians-workshops/

Thanks Gayan & Don .

I will do the scan first. Will post the results.

Rumesh88 · July 11, 2014

There are few simple things that one could have done for it is obvious that one of the cylinders is not properly firing before going for a scan and suspecting coil pack etc.

1. Removing the plugs to see which one has more deposits. It can be one of the plugs having a manufacturing defect. For this reason I always keep the old set of plugs so that just in case if a plug is suspected I can test it instead of blindly changing all. However, it is much cheaper to replace a plug with abnormal deposits if it can be singled out just to test than doing all other things.

2. Misfiring could also be due a compression leak due to one of the valves not seating properly. Can be diagnosed with a hand held compression meter.
3.Also it could be one of the injectors partially clogged and not operating properly at idle speeds.

I get the feeling that a scan, although required to do in this case, might not reveal a fault directly.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Rumesh88

The Don · July 11, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 4:38 PM, Rumesh88 said:
There are few simple things that one could have done for it is obvious that one of the cylinders is not properly firing before going for a scan and suspecting coil pack etc.
1. Removing the plugs to see which one has more deposits. It can be one of the plugs having a manufacturing defect. For this reason I always keep the old set of plugs so that just in case if a plug is suspected I can test it instead of blindly changing all. However, it is much cheaper to replace a plug with abnormal deposits if it can be singled out just to test than doing all other things.

2. Misfiring could also be due a compression leak due to one of the valves not seating properly. Can be diagnosed with a hand held compression meter.

3.Also it could be one of the injectors partially clogged and not operating properly at idle speeds.

I get the feeling that a scan, although required to do in this case, might not reveal a fault directly.

Rumesh, the steps you suggest is perfectly reasonable, but our advice on a scan is dependent on two facts.

1. A mechanic had inspected the plugs and cleaned them and the problem resolved itself for another 200km. Now this could still indicate a faulty plug yes, but I'm assuming the mechanic would have been competent enough to spot the tell tale signs

2. Coil pack failure and cam position sensor failure is quite common on Nissan's of this generation, and does not always trigger the check engine light, which is quite annoying. Also the K11 engine has the throttle position and idle control valve hard fixed to the throttle body and there is a common problem where dry solder joints cause rough idle. This is a new car but not sure if the problem still exists (probably not since the engine itself is a different design but you never know with shared part suppliers etc. The Mitsubishi idle control valve existed for over a decade!)

MasterDon · July 11, 2014

I don't think its a plug issue cos thats basic stuff for the mechanic to.Scan as people said.But don't go replacing everything the scanner reports.Sometimes those scanners pop up completely unrelated error codes.

FYI you can tell which plug is faulty and misfiring(if it is truly a plug miss) by keeping the car on idle and removing and reattaching plug wires one by one.Take care not to touch the car with any other part of your body.If the plug is OK the car will misfire even more severely once you remove it's wire but lifting the faulty plug's wire will not show any change in the idle because it's not firing in the first place.

Further FYI there was a very bad batch of NGKs imported about two years ago.Douglas & sons themselves admitted it to me.

Fixzit · July 12, 2014

Agree with Don and MasterDon..you can check by talking plug wires off to see what difference it makes.. if anyone of the wires don't make a difference that means something wrong related to that cylinder. . Could be a sensor issue or electrical. . But as Don suggested after all the things you have done already. . Its pretty easy to get a scan done find out what's the issue.. some people would scan for free from what ive heard. .you can ask the mechanic to do a reset first and then do a scan.. that way old and unrelated codes wouldn't pop up.. but then the mechanic might do that even if you don't ask him to do so...

MV-5 · July 12, 2014

if you can feel the misfire when only the car is idle, vacuum leak might be a probable root cause.

Normally coil pack failures are noticeable even 1500-2000 RPM.(that means , not only when vehicle is idle).

Again , when coil pack spark leaks are there , plug cleanup would temporally solve the problem (spark will be thrown through the least resistance path).

as others said, good mechanic can analyze the scan result (not only for the random misfire code, scan tool can measure the performance data parameters ) and come to a conclusion.

compression test, EGR,vacuum leak, then electrical path (plugs,wires,coil packs,ignition signal not propagation due to incorrect sensor readings ), then injectors.

but good mechanic can cut-down this scope smartly through a full scan for performance data parameters.

Rumesh88 · July 12, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 5:30 PM, The Don said:
Rumesh, the steps you suggest is perfectly reasonable, but our advice on a scan is dependent on two facts.
1. A mechanic had inspected the plugs and cleaned them and the problem resolved itself for another 200km. Now this could still indicate a faulty plug yes, but I'm assuming the mechanic would have been competent enough to spot the tell tale signs

Don, I do not expect a mechanic who replaced a fuel pump straight away and then went on to check the plugs on the second visit to be that competent! Funny, it was exactly this point that prompted me to respond to the post.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Rumesh88

newone · July 13, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 4:38 PM, Rumesh88 said:
There are few simple things that one could have done for it is obvious that one of the cylinders is not properly firing before going for a scan and suspecting coil pack etc.
1. Removing the plugs to see which one has more deposits. It can be one of the plugs having a manufacturing defect. For this reason I always keep the old set of plugs so that just in case if a plug is suspected I can test it instead of blindly changing all. However, it is much cheaper to replace a plug with abnormal deposits if it can be singled out just to test than doing all other things.

2. Misfiring could also be due a compression leak due to one of the valves not seating properly. Can be diagnosed with a hand held compression meter.

3.Also it could be one of the injectors partially clogged and not operating properly at idle speeds.

I get the feeling that a scan, although required to do in this case, might not reveal a fault directly.

On 7/11/2014 at 5:30 PM, The Don said:
Rumesh, the steps you suggest is perfectly reasonable, but our advice on a scan is dependent on two facts.
1. A mechanic had inspected the plugs and cleaned them and the problem resolved itself for another 200km. Now this could still indicate a faulty plug yes, but I'm assuming the mechanic would have been competent enough to spot the tell tale signs

2. Coil pack failure and cam position sensor failure is quite common on Nissan's of this generation, and does not always trigger the check engine light, which is quite annoying. Also the K11 engine has the throttle position and idle control valve hard fixed to the throttle body and there is a common problem where dry solder joints cause rough idle. This is a new car but not sure if the problem still exists (probably not since the engine itself is a different design but you never know with shared part suppliers etc. The Mitsubishi idle control valve existed for over a decade!)

Thanks Rumesh and Don.

Seems like the issue it not that simple to identify. as you all suggest I am going to do a scan one next tuesday. I will post the results here.

newone · July 13, 2014

On 7/11/2014 at 6:00 PM, MasterDon said:

I don't think its a plug issue cos thats basic stuff for the mechanic to.Scan as people said.But don't go replacing everything the scanner reports.Sometimes those scanners pop up completely unrelated error codes.

FYI you can tell which plug is faulty and misfiring(if it is truly a plug miss) by keeping the car on idle and removing and reattaching plug wires one by one.Take care not to touch the car with any other part of your body.If the plug is OK the car will misfire even more severely once you remove it's wire but lifting the faulty plug's wire will not show any change in the idle because it's not firing in the first place.

Further FYI there was a very bad batch of NGKs imported about two years ago.Douglas & sons themselves admitted it to me.

On 7/12/2014 at 6:19 AM, Fixzit said:
Agree with Don and MasterDon..you can check by talking plug wires off to see what difference it makes.. if anyone of the wires don't make a difference that means something wrong related to that cylinder. . Could be a sensor issue or electrical. . But as Don suggested after all the things you have done already. . Its pretty easy to get a scan done find out what's the issue.. some people would scan for free from what ive heard. .you can ask the mechanic to do a reset first and then do a scan.. that way old and unrelated codes wouldn't pop up.. but then the mechanic might do that even if you don't ask him to do so...

Thanks MasterDon and Fixzit .

But the spark plug wires cannot be remove like that. Plugs and coil pack are inside the cover like this.

newone · July 13, 2014

On 7/12/2014 at 12:12 PM, MV-5 said:
if you can feel the misfire when only the car is idle, vacuum leak might be a probable root cause.
Normally coil pack failures are noticeable even 1500-2000 RPM.(that means , not only when vehicle is idle).

Again , when coil pack spark leaks are there , plug cleanup would temporally solve the problem (spark will be thrown through the least resistance path).

as others said, good mechanic can analyze the scan result (not only for the random misfire code, scan tool can measure the performance data parameters ) and come to a conclusion.

compression test, EGR,vacuum leak, then electrical path (plugs,wires,coil packs,ignition signal not propagation due to incorrect sensor readings ), then injectors.

but good mechanic can cut-down this scope smartly through a full scan for performance data parameters.

Thanks MV-5 .

newone · July 13, 2014

Today I got the same problem again. Now its gone bad. car is lack of pulling power and even stalled middle on the road. I am not sure if I can go to a garage with this condition. at least to do a scan. really worried guys. dont know what to do.

aps · July 14, 2014

On 7/13/2014 at 12:43 PM, newone said:
Today I got the same problem again. Now its gone bad. car is lack of pulling power and even stalled middle on the road. I am not sure if I can go to a garage with this condition. at least to do a scan. really worried guys. dont know what to do.

hope ur not going to scan from place around moratuwa all joints in moratuwa useless. like most other say's ur mechanic started from wrong end.(fuel pump) hope it's not mxxjulx who said it's nothing else my fuel pump in my opel corsa where i later replaced only injector seal for 350/- and job done.

Highly recommend Mr.Kumarasiri - Maharagama who never rip off.

The Don · July 14, 2014

On 7/13/2014 at 12:43 PM, newone said:
Today I got the same problem again. Now its gone bad. car is lack of pulling power and even stalled middle on the road. I am not sure if I can go to a garage with this condition. at least to do a scan. really worried guys. dont know what to do.

It does sound like the coil packs. There is a slight variation of the test MD suggested when you have coil packs instead of distributor and plug wires.

There is a wire connector to each coil pack, and usually a little lock that holds the connector in place. Before you start the car remove these locks and keep them in a safe place (don't worry if there are no metal ring like locks and its the push to unlock type). Then with the car started, remove one connector at a time and see if makes a difference.

Usually you will see the car become really rough and try to stall when you take the connector out of a working coil pack, but the difference would be less dramatic if the coil pack has partially failed.

Is the check engine light on?

newone · July 15, 2014

Went to the A*W today ... did a scan .. surprisingly no errors , even they cant explaing whats happening. they wanted to do a engine tuneup to start the diagnose. I said no.

Then I went to small place at Arnord Ratnayake mawatha ( next to firebrigade ) . the guy also did a scan and found nothing. So he changed the coil packs (all 4) with used ones that had with him. Then the fault has gone. engine was runnig smoothly. so we thought we found the fault. Then he switched back to old ones. ohh god... It also working good. drove from there to moratuwa about an hour ago in heavy traffic. No misfires.

Dont know whats going on there...

Rumesh88 · July 15, 2014

You may still have a either a coil pack or a spark plug intermittently failing. As I said before it is unlikely to show up in a scan. What I don't understand is knowing that it was an engine miss why didn't the mechs who inspected the fault, take a look at each plug to isolate the fault to a single cylinder? Had they done so they could have changed that particular coil pack instead of changing all four at once and getting more confused. Though it is not my wish you may get this fault again. If it happens keep the engine on idle for 5 minutes and get someone to inspect for the plug that gives out a raw petrol smell and show up most carbon deposits.

Niranjan de Silva · July 15, 2014

I have been following what is happening. I got a hunch nothing will show up in the scan as there were no error indicators. Anyhow I have a beetle march. Highly recommend Ravi Perera at Bulugahahandiya, Peliyagoda. He is a nissan specialist. His prices are very reasonable. I have discussed him in the good mechanics thread. Phone no is. 072 214 2143. Highly recommend him.

aps · July 16, 2014

Did you notice any change(level drop or color change) in oil or coolant ?

newone · July 16, 2014

On 7/15/2014 at 4:42 PM, Rumesh88 said:
You may still have a either a coil pack or a spark plug intermittently failing. As I said before it is unlikely to show up in a scan. What I don't understand is knowing that it was an engine miss why didn't the mechs who inspected the fault, take a look at each plug to isolate the fault to a single cylinder? Had they done so they could have changed that particular coil pack instead of changing all four at once and getting more confused. Though it is not my wish you may get this fault again. If it happens keep the engine on idle for 5 minutes and get someone to inspect for the plug that gives out a raw petrol smell and show up most carbon deposits.

They said they cannot exactly identify which coil is faulty. So the guy @ Arnord Ratnayake mawatha , told me change one by one and check for the fault. A*w told me to do a tunep first and if the problem still exist hey need to inspect the coils while working. I dont know how they do that. Plugs are checked by two persons and told they were in good condition and all worked as same. Lets see whats going on. I will update if there anything new.

newone · July 16, 2014

On 7/15/2014 at 5:04 PM, Niranjan de Silva said:
I have been following what is happening. I got a hunch nothing will show up in the scan as there were no error indicators. Anyhow I have a beetle march. Highly recommend Ravi Perera at Bulugahahandiya, Peliyagoda. He is a nissan specialist. His prices are very reasonable. I have discussed him in the good mechanics thread. Phone no is. 072 214 2143. Highly recommend him.

First I decided to go there after reading that thread. But as per Don and others advice I decided to go to agents and do a scan. Thanks Niranjan. If this happens again I will go there.