When To Change Atf

TechHater · June 17, 2016

mine is a brandnew 2012 kia sportage a daily runner of short distances and now has 42000km on the clock. At the recent service (a*to Mi**ge dematagoda) the service guy insists its time to change ATF. but i remembered in the owners manual clearly mentioning ATF change is at 100000km for countries with extreme driving conditions.

he says in sri lanka its recommended to change ATF at 40K. KIA service centre (which i have no faith at all) says the same.

can some one give insight about the matter.

Edited June 17, 2016 by TechHater

asrock · June 17, 2016

Its better not to take a risk and change ATF asap. Driving in Colombo and suburbs stop and go traffic may contribute to ATF deterioration.

Twin Turbo · June 18, 2016

What are you waiting for ? till the Gears stop shifting?

Edited June 18, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Vengeance · June 18, 2016

^Agree with the gentlemen above, its better to be safe than sorry.

gayanath · June 19, 2016

On 6/17/2016 at 12:54 PM, TechHater said:
mine is a brandnew 2012 kia sportage a daily runner of short distances and now has 42000km on the clock. At the recent service (a*to Mi**ge dematagoda) the service guy insists its time to change ATF. but i remembered in the owners manual clearly mentioning ATF change is at 100000km for countries with extreme driving conditions.
he says in sri lanka its recommended to change ATF at 40K. KIA service centre (which i have no faith at all) says the same.

can some one give insight about the matter.

Who knows about the vehicle better?

1. A*to Mi*** ?

2. KIA Service center (in SL)?

3. Manufacture (who prepare the service manual)?

If 1 or 2 are manufacture of KIA, then you should follow them. No mate, those people are bullshit. They only bother about how much could they earn from you.

Even with Colombo traffic, we (Sri Lanka) are well below the extreme driving conditions. Following the owner/service manual is the best practice. 40k for ATF is now obsolete for most of the vehicles. However normally the manual says xxxxxx km or xx months whichever comes first. So please refer not only the millage but also the duration mentioned in the manual. You have to replace fluids in correct duration irrespective of lower millage.

vishkid · June 19, 2016

On 6/18/2016 at 3:50 AM, Vengeance said:
^Agree with the gentlemen above, its better to be safe than sorry.

On 6/18/2016 at 1:08 AM, Twin Turbo said:
What are you waiting for ? till the Gears stop shifting?

On 6/17/2016 at 1:38 PM, asrock said:
Its better not to take a risk and change ATF asap. Driving in Colombo and suburbs stop and go traffic may contribute to ATF deterioration.

Seriously? This is the advise from a forum of "up-to-date" car enthusiasts?? FML!

Jor-el · June 20, 2016

According to my owners manual Mitsubishi recommends changing ATF at every 40,000Km under severe conditions.

CVT fluid at 100,000Km under severe conditions.

Under non- severe conditions both ATF and CVT fluid to be replaced at 100,000Km. (wrong wrong wrong keep scrolling for the corrected post)

Edited June 20, 2016 by Jor-el

Twin Turbo · June 20, 2016

Just look at the posts of Failures of Autoboxes.

The only preventative maintenance is ATF& strainer change.

Twin Turbo · June 20, 2016

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Edited June 20, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Twin Turbo · June 20, 2016

.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Jor-el · June 20, 2016

Well the answer should be simple enough. If you use the vehicle under severe operating conditions change ATF at 40,000Km. If not you can change ATF at 100,000Km.

Note that severe operating conditions include

1. More than 50% of operation time in heavy city traffic in temperatures of 32°C or higher

2. Engine idling for a long time or short-distance travel during cold weather

3. Driving in a dusty area or in an area which the vehicle is exposed to salty air or brine

Twin Turbo · June 20, 2016

On 6/19/2016 at 6:39 PM, vishkid said:
Seriously? This is the advise from a forum of "up-to-date" car enthusiasts?? FML!

The idea behind the recommendations this side of reocting this guy in Nuwara-Eliya was to keep his toy operational.

We are not in-charge or responsible for

1.The near melting day time temperatures.

2.Export Quality traffic-jams

3or the slow driving and dusty operating conditions our country.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Twin Turbo

iRage · June 20, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 2:27 AM, Jor-el said:
According to my owners manual Mitsubishi recommends changing ATF at every 40,000Km under severe conditions.
CVT fluid at 100,000Km under severe conditions.

Under non- severe conditions both ATF and CVT fluid to be replaced at 100,000Km.

Say whaaattt ????

Well here we go again I guess....the manufacturer gives RECOMMENDATIONS for severe and normal operation. However, these are just general recommendations. No manufacturer is going to go to each and every country they find their car models in and do extensive testing to see at what constitutes as severe and normal driving conditions for their recommendations. It is at this point that manufacturers leave it to the local agent. You can go to any car manufacturer and ask for recommendations at the end of the day they are going to say to consult your local authorized dealer for market specific recommendations. So if the manufacturer's local agent, based on their experience, recommends you to change it at 42,000kms....well that is up to you to follow it or not. It is up to you to do a proper risk assessment and decide if you want to incur the cost or not. In fact I am sure the manufacturer would love it if you break you gearbox as that gives them more business Now, if you have trust issues (and in cases quite rightly so) with your local agent then it is up to you to factor that in to your risk assessment.

SIDE NOTE: In the case of Toyota even small drives where the distance is less than 10-20km are considered under moderately severe drivign conditions as the probability for the oils to heat up to proper operating temperature is low.

Now you also have to keep in mind that the manufacturer gives recommendations....they say change the timing belt at 100000km, it doesn't mean it is going to break at 100,001km. Will the gearbox break if you don't change your oil...probably not....will an oil change prolong its life ? we wouldn't know as the oil would not be the only factor that breaks it...but will an oil change hurt ? no it won't...(well in most cases...I know cases where the oil was changed by a maka baases who had no idea how to do it)

So at the end of the day..only YOU can decide if you want to change the oil.

I am sure there are reputed garages other than the agent who deals with your brand of car...consult with them as well for a second or third opinion.

All we can do is comment on what the recommended figures stated on user manuals and imprint the decisions we have taken with our cars on to you.

I am 100% certain none of us here commenting on this thread has a Kia Sportage that we have used extensively and have intimate real-world knowledge of. For example if it was a CR-V or RAV4 of the last three generations, or any of the other cars that I own or have owned....I could have given you a detailed account of issues and what could be done to avert them...but for a Sportage..well...I know jack squat.

Sorry I really didn't add any value..but just wanted to show that that ultimately it is your car and your money and the decision lies on you.

Jor-el · June 20, 2016

Say whaaattt ????

</blockquote>

Well it's what the owners manual says.. and they have explained what "severe usage conditions" are. I've stated 3 of them on my last post

1. Driving in a dusty area or in an area which the vehicle is likely to be exposed to salty air or brine

2. Frequent driving on rough roads, or submerged roads, or hilly areas

3. Driving in cold zones

4. Engine idling for a long time or short-distance travelling on cold weather

5. Frequent, sudden application of brakes

6. Towing of a trailer

7. Use as a taxi/ rent-a-car

8. More than 50% of operation time in heavy traffic in temperatures of 32°C or higher

9. More than 50% of operation time at speeds of 120km/h or higer in temperatures of 30°C or higher

10. Operation under excessive load

iRage · June 20, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 4:19 AM, Jor-el said:
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="iRage" data-cid="294007" data-time="1466394570">
 

Say whaaattt ???? 

 

</blockquote>

Well it's what the owners manual says.. and they have explained what "severe usage conditions" are. I've stated 3 of them on my last post

1. Driving in a dusty area or in an area which the vehicle is likely to be exposed to salty air or brine

2. Frequent driving on rough roads, or submerged roads, or hilly areas

3. Driving in cold zones

4. Engine idling for a long time or short-distance travelling on cold weather

5. Frequent, sudden application of brakes

6. Towing of a trailer

7. Use as a taxi/ rent-a-car

8. More than 50% of operation time in heavy traffic in temperatures of 32°C or higher

9. More than 50% of operation time at speeds of 120km/h or higer in temperatures of 30°C or higher

10. Operation under excessive load

LOL...you missed what you had written again...

You said replace CVT fluid at 100,000 under severe conditions and then the next line you said under non-severe conditions both AT and CVT can be changed at 100,000kms

So essentially you said both severe and non-severe conditions the il change should be the same

Jor-el · June 20, 2016

LOL...you missed what you had written again...</blockquote>

Dang oi! aththa nennang..

OK direct quote from the manual:

Non-severe usage

ATF (including CVT fluid) 2WD

Replace at 100,000km/5 years

Severe usage

ATF (including CVT fluid) 2WD

Replace at 40,000km/2 years

Thanks for pointing out my mistake! much <3

vishkid · June 20, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 3:16 AM, Twin Turbo said:
The idea behind the recommendations this side of reocting this guy in Nuwara-Eliya was to keep his toy operational.
We are not in-charge or responsible for

1.The near melting day time temperatures.

2.Export Quality traffic-jams

3or the slow driving and dusty operating conditions our country.

I do agree that you err on the side of caution and an ATF change is only about 20k LKR at the max. But in the same breath I'm just wondering what sort of data you have on the transmission failures because someone did not change ATF at 40k km? I'm also wondering whether people tend to classify driving in Colombo (or SL in general) as specially severe than - say - driving in California?

I actually quizzed a bunch of friends and family with older vehicles (sample size =9) and figured that people change ATF at mileages from 40k to 90k intervals with zero tranny issues. The oldest car was at 174k with 2 ATF changes at ~70k and ~150k.

I guess "some" would say that if the ATF was changed at 20k it would be also so much better because of the so called severe conditions, as if other countries do not have the temperature variability (we don't have anything to compare to a inter-seasonal 80 degree drop), traffic jams, stop-start, dust etc. Extreme conditions are defined in Jor-el's post above and it's very similar conditions I drive in SF bay area as in Colombo .... well, apart from the attitude of the drivers.

I'm not too sure if any of you have used and serviced a KIA but I have, both here and in the US, and I know for a fact that Car plan (KIA motors SL?) recommended a 70k severe condition ATF change for Sorento in 2010 and now seems to have dropped it to 40k. KIA USA advises to stick by the service manual and NOT to change ATF unless there is a leakage, severe discoloration or a drop of level while the service agents urge the customers to stick to severe schedule (irrespective of where they drive), which is to change at 40k miles (65k kilometers). If you search the KIA forums, you will find that the outliers who follow the manufacturer advice rather than the service agent advice have not faced issues on the transmission. Of course, KIA US will NOT invalidate the warranty if the manufacturer advise is followed (i.e. inspect rather than change), whereas the service agents continually try to blindside the customers.

Some marquees have gone to the length of requiring special tools to do an ATF change and charging dearly ($450+) to get that done at service agent. At the same time they have dropped the severe service interval to 65k from 105k (Mercedes) for an improved sealed transmission! You can easily work out who's milking whom

Anyhow, it's your toy - your money. And as I said what is 20k LKR in today's terms?

TechHater · June 20, 2016

the instructions given for countries except aus and new zealand( australasian regon countries)

for severe usage conditions and what is severe usage

the instructions given for australia and new zealand are as same as the first picture. not to change.

my question is whats the logic behind this 40K ATF change?

Edited June 20, 2016 by TechHater

Dushyantha · June 20, 2016

The whole idea of buying an autogear car is so you dont have to stress and worry about changing gears .... then start stressing and worrying about when the atf needs to be changed ? so when driving an auto your constantly reminded something like "would i be stranded in the middle of the road since i didnt change my ATF ? " or "each time a gear changes or u step on the pedal ur reminded of some ATF service"
cant see much of a benefit in buying an auto.

Unless if its a brand new vehicle in which case most vehicles only come as some sort of auto transmission and your left with no choice but to purchase an auto and keep worrying about when the ATF needs to be changed . For those people its not like you run 50000kms in 2-3 weeks . so wouldnt hurt to change the tranny oil when you have some extra cash and the vehicle has run like say 50-60k so you can drive around without worrying about the transmission . which is what the whole purpose of an automatic is . drive around without worrying about the gears

Edited June 20, 2016 by Dushyantha

gayanath · June 20, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 1:04 PM, TechHater said:
the instructions given for countries except aus and new zealand( australasian regon countries)

for severe usage conditions and what is severe usage

the instructions given for australia and new zealand are as same as the first picture. not to change.

my question is whats the logic behind this 40K ATF change?

Summerizing above,

For manual tansaxle fluid

Normal condition: Inspect every 60,000 km or 48 months

Severe condition: Replace every 120,000 km

For ATF

Normal condition: No check, No service

Severe condition: Replace every 100,000 km

So no harm if you replace ATF at not less than 100,000 km (or lets say 60 months) in any condition.

TechHater · June 20, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 1:58 PM, gayanath said:
Summerizing above,
For manual tansaxle fluid

Normal condition: Inspect every 60,000 km or 48 months

Severe condition: Replace every 120,000 km

For ATF

Normal condition: No check, No service

Severe condition: Replace every 100,000 km

So no harm if you replace ATF at not less than 100,000 km (or lets say 60 months) in any condition.

my point exactly..but howcome those flashy service centre knowhows and "not so sure" techinical advisers barge upon early change of ATF?

iRage · June 21, 2016

On 6/20/2016 at 2:33 PM, TechHater said:
my point exactly..but howcome those flashy service centre knowhows and "not so sure" techinical advisers barge upon early change of ATF?

Again..like I said before....the manufacturer gives recommendations in a general scenario (kind of like a kokatath thailya upades) which covers most usage scenarios. Thus, for some owners it is over kill for some it is modest and for some it is beyond help. Then again....the manufacturers' recommendations on the manual are not the most trustworthy as well. For example....the 1st and 2nd generation CR-V's state rear diff oil needs to be changed at 100,000kms. However, the diff goes bust if the oil is not changed at around 50-60k for which Honda later released a service update for. A similar situation with the 3rd gen RAV4. According to the user manual; the transfer case oil needs to be changed if and only if the CVT oil is changed. However, it is a known problem with the car that a thud/hammering like noise from your transmission will develop (in reality the transfer case) if the fluid is not replaced sooner (apparently the oil deteriorates at a much faster rate than earlier anticipated). Unfortunately there is no recall for it but in most cases the issue was fixed through the warranty if and when it developed..(oh..and the transfer case oil can't be replaced without replacing the CVT oil)

Manufacturers rely on their local agents to provide information and determine thresholds for things like fluid changes, etc....I guarantee that if you go to Kia or Toyota or whatever in any country they will recite the book to you and then tell you to consult your local agent for country specific info. In the US I know that agents asks you to contact your local agents in your home state for differences in maintenance between different states !

So the rationale for the 42000km change...hopefully it is based on the agent's experience in dealing with the specific transmission and the cars it come with. Now...if you can trust the agent to be competent enough to come up with these factors...that is a whole different story.

As I said before...get a second (or third) opinion...then figure out for yourself what the risks are.

Twin Turbo · June 21, 2016

On 6/19/2016 at 6:39 PM, vishkid said:
Seriously? This is the advise from a forum of "up-to-date" car enthusiasts?? FML!

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/14009-transmission-delay-in-auto-gear/

This is why we don't have a car industry. We don't even know how to maintain a car!

gayanath · June 21, 2016

ATF change is not the main reason for Gear Box failure.

Please go through below topic.

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/17782-toyota-allion-nzt260-cvt-gearbox-issue/?hl=allion

Post #10 says the owner has changed CVT fluid always less than 40K. but it has already failed.

Quote:

Yes I am the first owner here in SL although the car had close to 30k mileage when I got it in 2010. I've been changing the fluid every 35-40k. Never ran it without changing it past 40.

unquote.

Any mechanical part could be failed due to several reasons in any moment of its service life. But our makabases are thinking GB's are failing due to not changing ATF in every 40K millage.

vishkid · June 21, 2016

On 6/21/2016 at 5:00 AM, Twin Turbo said:
http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/14009-transmission-delay-in-auto-gear/
This is why we don't have a car industry. We don't even know how to maintain a car!

Or rather we're just plain idiots lining our bets on the altruism of service agents, because we know better than the manufacturer!

Twin Turbo · June 21, 2016

On 6/21/2016 at 7:59 AM, gayanath said:
ATF change is not the main reason for Gear Box failure.
Please go through below topic.

http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/17782-toyota-allion-nzt260-cvt-gearbox-issue/?hl=allion

Post #10 says the owner has changed CVT fluid always less than 40K. but it has already failed.

Quote:

Yes I am the first owner here in SL although the car had close to 30k mileage when I got it in 2010. I've been changing the fluid every 35-40k. Never ran it without changing it past 40.

unquote.

Any mechanical part could be failed due to several reasons in any moment of its service life. But our makabases are thinking GB's are failing due to not changing ATF in every 40K millage.

yo've got your knick's in a twist.carefully go through the threads! This is why most major car brands (esp Jap) did not offer auto'boxes in here vehicles to SL! The idea behind the short service interval is to keep the system running for as long as possible. And many Hyundai's have had tras issues here(Hyundai own Kia)