Swapping a Classic's the whole Engine, Gearbox with a newer Engine, Gearbox

[caesarprime]

I might not be technically sound to raise this question.

But, just asking for broader clarity.

I haven't used an older classic in the recent times, but it is said there could be issues while going on longer trips, low amount of spare parts in the market, bla bla bla.

But just keeping in mind if I am a Makabaas who wants to keep the chassis as it is an just change the other Engine/Gearbox mechanics, would this be an ideal choice to revisit.

The car in my mind now is Datsun B211, and I am interested if it would work if I swap the engine of this with one of a FB-15 or anything later where we can find parts anywhere in the market. What would be the ideal engine to swap this with.

Is there any guideline to check if I am making an Engine Swap.

[iRage]

Hmmm...interesting...here is the thing...

The B211/210 is  rear-wheel drive (RWD) car whilst the FB15 is a front-wheel drive (FWD) car. So your engine and gearbox translate is not going to work that easily. You need to change the direction of the engine..then find a gearbox that matches the engine and is RWD. I don't think the FB15's engines came in any RWD form. So, sadly your plan from the begining has a huge hurdle. Cna it be done ? Oh yes ! But I get the feeling you want to do something on the cheap and a conversion like this is going to take a lot of time and effort (which is going ot cost a lot)

Then, when you put an engine and transmission of a newer car in to an older chassis you will need to consider the following:

- Chassis strengthening : newer engines have a lot more power and torque and the chassis of old cars are way too weak..and can twist and bend.

- Brakes : again, engine has more power than an older car and the transmission delivers it with more torque...so you need to upgrade the brakes to actually stop it.

- Suspension upgrade : same reason as above

- Fuel system upgrade : If you are going to go for a modern engine with EFI, then you will need to change the fuel system.  S you need to get electric pumps, and other components that can supply the fuel at the right pressure

- Electrical system : Newer engines have quie a few sensors to keep it running....then there is the ECU, you need to make sure the electrical systems are updated.

- Exhaust/Intake system : You need to upgrade the exhaust system to something that is compatible with your engine.

So when you think of all the work that needs to be done...and what you need a an old reliable car for cheap...then a proper conversion is not going to work. You might as well get rid of the B210 and buy a newer car like a B13/B12 Sunny or even something like a Lancer/Corolla.

Can a conversion be done without doing any of the above list of thing. Yes...but the car will run like s**t...and will be more unreliable and sucky to drive than the original engine the car had.

My advice: B210/211, etc...have very simple mechanicals....and surprisingly it does not have much specialised parts like electrical sensors, etc...so in 20 years time you are more likely to find mechanical parts or even get mechanical parts made for a B210/211 than that of a B15/B13/etc... Strip down the engine,transmission, brakes, etc... of your B211/210..and do a PROPER build with PROPER parts (there are very reputable 3rd party parts available), then get refurbished (or even newer) components like alternators, etc... that would still cost you..but won't cost you as much as trying to do the engine swap.

Again, you are not going to find reliablitility in cheap work and you won't find cheap work in what is reliable.

[matroska]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:42 AM, caesarprime said:

I might not be technically sound to raise this question.

But, just asking for broader clarity.

I haven't used an older classic in the recent times, but it is said there could be issues while going on longer trips, low amount of spare parts in the market, bla bla bla.

But just keeping in mind if I am a Makabaas who wants to keep the chassis as it is an just change the other Engine/Gearbox mechanics, would this be an ideal choice to revisit.

The car in my mind now is Datsun B211, and I am interested if it would work if I swap the engine of this with one of a FB-15 or anything later where we can find parts anywhere in the market. What would be the ideal engine to swap this with.

Is there any guideline to check if I am making an Engine Swap.

Engine swaps are interesting (bit of a swap enthusiast myself) - it adds reliability to the car. EFI engines are easier to live with than carbs (most of the time)  but you need to consider a few things.

B211 is a RWD drive car you will be better off swapping it with a RWD engine and not a FB15 engine that is front wheel drive. Popular swaps for RWD cars are RWD EFI engines like 7k (Toyota Townace Noah) - i've seen 7k's swapped on morris minors KE20's etc. A RWD Nissan engine might work for you BUT you have to also consider stuff like the gearbox (adjusting the transmission tunnel might be a headache) you also might need to adjust suspension modern efi engines weigh a lot more than the old simple carb engines.  A RWD SR20 maybe off an old Sylvia on a B211 will require a lot of work but will be something to savour! 

Legally you need to update the CR - rules state that the new engine should be from the same manufacturer and the cylinder capacity of the new engine should NOT exceed the old engine by more than 500 cc. So legally you can't swap a SR20 on a B211 which had  1200. 

FWD-FWD will be a lot easier. But there were less classics with FWD. 80's cars are prime candidates for swaps : I've swapped a newer 4efe EFI engine on a starlet EP71 (that ran a carbureted 2E) : you can read my blog on the subject.

If you have a requirement to get a cheap reliable daily then I recommend doing a FW-FW swap using a common engine it won't be 'cool' as a B211 swap. But looking at the prices of B211's you probably can get a B11 for around the same price and chuck in an FB15 engine into it. 

There are some more interesting swaps too like Subaru EJ on VW beetle. Eitherway don't get a makabass to do it though that will be a disaster. 

 

[peugeot407]

From my experience, engines that came in B210/B310 are pretty reliable, and you can drive them continuously at highway speeds for long distances without any issues.

When the power is concerned, if the carb is tuned properly, these cars can keep up with newer cars without any issues. However, the brakes need to improve.

So, if you are going to buy a B210, do not go for an engine swap. Just get it fixed by a competent mechanic who is familiar with cars from this era.

[caesarprime]

On 1/31/2022 at 10:49 AM, matroska said:

Engine swaps are interesting (bit of a swap enthusiast myself) - it adds reliability to the car. EFI engines are easier to live with than carbs (most of the time)  but you need to consider a few things.

B211 is a RWD drive car you will be better off swapping it with a RWD engine and not a FB15 engine that is front wheel drive. Popular swaps for RWD cars are RWD EFI engines like 7k (Toyota Townace Noah) - i've seen 7k's swapped on morris minors KE20's etc. A RWD Nissan engine might work for you BUT you have to also consider stuff like the gearbox (adjusting the transmission tunnel might be a headache) you also might need to adjust suspension modern efi engines weigh a lot more than the old simple carb engines.  A RWD SR20 maybe off an old Sylvia on a B211 will require a lot of work but will be something to savour! 

Legally you need to update the CR - rules state that the new engine should be from the same manufacturer and the cylinder capacity of the new engine should NOT exceed the old engine by more than 500 cc. So legally you can't swap a SR20 on a B211 which had  1200. 

FWD-FWD will be a lot easier. But there were less classics with FWD. 80's cars are prime candidates for swaps : I've swapped a newer 4efe EFI engine on a starlet EP71 (that ran a carbureted 2E) : you can read my blog on the subject.

If you have a requirement to get a cheap reliable daily then I recommend doing a FW-FW swap using a common engine it won't be 'cool' as a B211 swap. But looking at the prices of B211's you probably can get a B11 for around the same price and chuck in an FB15 engine into it. 

There are some more interesting swaps too like Subaru EJ on VW beetle. Eitherway don't get a makabass to do it though that will be a disaster. 

 

Thanks Boss, this is what I was expecting. Any recommended mechanic who has some expertise with this kindof work??

On 2/1/2022 at 10:08 AM, peugeot407 said:

From my experience, engines that came in B210/B310 are pretty reliable, and you can drive them continuously at highway speeds for long distances without any issues.

When the power is concerned, if the carb is tuned properly, these cars can keep up with newer cars without any issues. However, the brakes need to improve.

So, if you are going to buy a B210, do not go for an engine swap. Just get it fixed by a competent mechanic who is familiar with cars from this era.

They are, but I was having doubts as the older ones do tend to be more buggy at times.