Camber Repair + Alignment

[hasmax]

Dear all.

I have a so worrying problem in my CE 110. That is despite doing wheel alignments at several places very frequently, the front left side tire is getting worn fast from its outer side. So far i have been rotating the 4 tires round and round and the last good tire is now at the cursed point, so once that is also gone, i will be so helpless. All the alignment people were reassuring me all the times, but problem continued. Most of the things affecting alignment are in good condition, so have no worries over rack ends, tire rods, etc. But very recently my mechanic told me that he suspects camber problem, as for him, there is a problem in the front left wheel which can be noticed by eyesight it self.

So dear all, my problem is to get camber fixed now. Please tell me a good place which does alignment WITH camber repair. I searched for one, but all my efforts end in vain. Hope you may know a place and help me solve this problem.

Thanks in advance.

[Crosswind]

It may be an issue with the camber but if the wheel alignment people reassured you, then I would trust them more than your mechanic. Did you go to a computerized wheel alignment place? Their system would detect it easily. On the other hand, your mechanic can only 'suspect' it.

I can recommend the two joints in Malay Street or the one in Hyde Park Corner if you really want to check if the camber is out.

I could think of worn out shocks also as a reason but then I suspect your mechanic would have looked at it already and even if he didn't, the wheel alignment guys might also alert u if so.

Was the car involved in any serious frontal accident? That may also have an effect on this problem.

[harshansenadhir]

outer tire tread wear can be due to

Toe-in of the front tires ( can be corrected easily from wheel alignment)

Camber alignments are out (reads + figure and is significant)

Camber can be adjusted in some vehicles and some comes with fixed camber position and in/out can be adjusted by the height of the spring of the front mcperson struts. I've seen some cars, specially diesels with increased ride height by adding spacers to the front-coil. If this addition is too much, that can cause a camber out too.

first, check the reason as to why the camber is out (this is after eliminating and assuming the alignment/toe-in issue is no more)

if it's due to spacers or a frontal collision / bent lower arm (anything which reduces the space between the front subframe and the ball joint)

Also inspect/ check whether the camber position can be adjusted. If it's possible (either you car has it originally or someone made a modification which enables to adjust the camber position) and if there aren't anyother issue to worry, instruct the alignment guys to adjust the camber in/out. Since they already confirmed that they cannot do anything, I assume it's a fixed camber yet.

if the camber cannot be adjusted and no any other issues to worry (spacers, busted ball joint, bent lower arm or busted lower arm bushes) then proceed with modifying the camber to allow camber adjustments. i know many alignment places carry out such modifications. If you're close to Boralesgamuwa, then try out Harsha Wheel Alignment which is right in-front of Auto KV city alongside Colombo - Piliyandala road.

[zareekz]

Try Car Care in Wellawatte, Opposite Savoy. They do a pretty good job..

[The Don]

HSMax, read this thread. Amila the OP went through a similar scenario where the wheel alignment people could not properly diagnose the problem. Now his problem does not sound the same as yours (though funny enough its the same model) perhaps the discussion might be helpful.

http://forum.autolanka.com/index.php?/topic/12962-pulling-issue-when-theres-a-load-on-rear-tires/page__hl__%2Bwheel+%2Balignment__fromsearch__1

I also had a similar problem in my car but the cause of that was under inflated tyres. Make sure your tyre pressure is correct.

[Alexfernando]

Hello all,

Could someone who knows about wheel alignments tell me if wheel balancing is required before an alignment?

I ask because, I took my car for a wheel alignment at Nalaka.

I was told by them, that a wheel balancing has to be done prior to the alignment. I told them that I only require an alignment.

They then refused to do an alignment without wheel balancing.

I took my car left as I find it an absurd statement.

Is there any truth to what Nalaka is saying?

[The Don]

Hello all,

Could someone who knows about wheel alignments tell me if wheel balancing is required before an alignment?

I ask because, I took my car for a wheel alignment at Nalaka.

I was told by them, that a wheel balancing has to be done prior to the alignment. I told them that I only require an alignment.

They then refused to do an alignment without wheel balancing.

I took my car left as I find it an absurd statement.

Is there any truth to what Nalaka is saying?

Technically you do not need to balance your wheels before you align them. It does sound like a money making scheme by Nalaka. Having said that if your rims have buckled beyond a certain point it might be useful to know that before the wheels are aligned as it could affect the readings but at that point the buckling would probably be visible to the naked eye .....

[c1nder]

There's a really good place next to the IOC Mt. Lavinia (small place just before the shed-landside when coming from Colombo side) I solved a long time inner tire ware problem from him. Try there.

[Amila G]

Yes I too had a weird issue as The Don mentioned btw is your car pulling to a side when going on a straight road ?

Don't trust those computerized alignment buggers (from my experience ), take your car to car care wellawatte or better to auto wheel center in Panadura (if you live near) .

Mostly outside wear happens due to excessive toe in on that wheel, and I doubt camber is the issue. If the camber is so wrong, you will be able to see that the wheel is tilted too much inwards or outwards.

The camber is not adjustable on CE110, but alignment guys do it by either enlarging the bolt hole or slightly bending the shock (or mount I'm not sure) using a hydraulic puller.

So take it to one of the 2 places I mentioned and explain the issue to them, hopefully they'll be able to solve it.

On a side note, most technicians working in the computerized places knows only to adjust everything to show green in the display and sometimes getting the settings withing the green zone alone is not enough and it needs to be fine tuned.

also check your lower arms and lower arm bushes. See if you could find any impact marks on them (may be an arm is bent)

Good luck with solving the issue, mine drove me nuts

[Alexfernando]

Technically you do not need to balance your wheels before you align them. It does sound like a money making scheme by Nalaka. Having said that if your rims have buckled beyond a certain point it might be useful to know that before the wheels are aligned as it could affect the readings but at that point the buckling would probably be visible to the naked eye .....

I also thought they were just trying to add to the bill.

The rims are fine and the car has done only 32,000km so far. I wanted an alignment done as I noticed that my left font tire out edge is wearing out faster than the other tires.

Thank you very much for your assistance.

If its not against the forum rules, can someone recomended a good place for wheel alignemnt in Colombo?

[Amila G]

If its not against the forum rules, can someone recomended a good place for wheel alignemnt in Colombo?

Car care wellawatte is the place to go in Colombo.

Although not needed for the alignment, it's better to balance all the 4 wheels if you haven't done it for a long time (or didn't come balanced from the factory as it only has done 32k).

[Sylvi]

Members,

I got my vehicle wheel alignment and balancing at Car Care done today they did a very quick job. I was first to go there at 9.00AM. One senior worker Ajith attended to my job he knew his job Very well. I was patronizing another Wheel alignment center. they have an computerized unit.

I went to car care at Wellawathe because they were recommended by A/L Forum members. They wanted me to show the vehicle in one month or after 1000KMs. To inspect tire wastage. I hat wheel inside wastage in front two tires.

Any comments about my problem done only 11500 Kms. As the engineer at A*W informs me in my vehicle camber is fixed.

If the problem persist then have to do a modification to adjust the camber to the lover 2 arms.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[hasmax]

It may be an issue with the camber but if the wheel alignment people reassured you, then I would trust them more than your mechanic. Did you go to a computerized wheel alignment place? Their system would detect it easily. On the other hand, your mechanic can only 'suspect' it.

I can recommend the two joints in Malay Street or the one in Hyde Park Corner if you really want to check if the camber is out.

I could think of worn out shocks also as a reason but then I suspect your mechanic would have looked at it already and even if he didn't, the wheel alignment guys might also alert u if so.

Was the car involved in any serious frontal accident? That may also have an effect on this problem.

well, I checked it twice from computerized centers, but nothing solved. After i bought it there are no accidents, but there are few signs of previous frontal accident, but unlikely to be a major one. The shocks are in good condition I guess. Can u msg me the names of the two places u mentioned ? Thanks for the concern bro.

[hasmax]

outer tire tread wear can be due to

Toe-in of the front tires ( can be corrected easily from wheel alignment)

Camber alignments are out (reads + figure and is significant)

Camber can be adjusted in some vehicles and some comes with fixed camber position and in/out can be adjusted by the height of the spring of the front mcperson struts. I've seen some cars, specially diesels with increased ride height by adding spacers to the front-coil. If this addition is too much, that can cause a camber out too.

first, check the reason as to why the camber is out (this is after eliminating and assuming the alignment/toe-in issue is no more)

if it's due to spacers or a frontal collision / bent lower arm (anything which reduces the space between the front subframe and the ball joint)

Also inspect/ check whether the camber position can be adjusted. If it's possible (either you car has it originally or someone made a modification which enables to adjust the camber position) and if there aren't anyother issue to worry, instruct the alignment guys to adjust the camber in/out. Since they already confirmed that they cannot do anything, I assume it's a fixed camber yet.

if the camber cannot be adjusted and no any other issues to worry (spacers, busted ball joint, bent lower arm or busted lower arm bushes) then proceed with modifying the camber to allow camber adjustments. i know many alignment places carry out such modifications. If you're close to Boralesgamuwa, then try out Harsha Wheel Alignment which is right in-front of Auto KV city alongside Colombo - Piliyandala road.

harshan, that is a comprehensive one bro. thanks a lot. So now i can go n talk to the people competently .. i will check the places then. Thank you

[hasmax]

HSMax, read this thread. Amila the OP went through a similar scenario where the wheel alignment people could not properly diagnose the problem. Now his problem does not sound the same as yours (though funny enough its the same model) perhaps the discussion might be helpful.

http://www.autolanka...__fromsearch__1

I also had a similar problem in my car but the cause of that was under inflated tyres. Make sure your tyre pressure is correct.

Thanks for the trouble searching for me. i will read it defa.

[hasmax]

Yes I too had a weird issue as The Don mentioned btw is your car pulling to a side when going on a straight road ?

Don't trust those computerized alignment buggers (from my experience ), take your car to car care wellawatte or better to auto wheel center in Panadura (if you live near) .

Mostly outside wear happens due to excessive toe in on that wheel, and I doubt camber is the issue. If the camber is so wrong, you will be able to see that the wheel is tilted too much inwards or outwards.

The camber is not adjustable on CE110, but alignment guys do it by either enlarging the bolt hole or slightly bending the shock (or mount I'm not sure) using a hydraulic puller.

So take it to one of the 2 places I mentioned and explain the issue to them, hopefully they'll be able to solve it.

On a side note, most technicians working in the computerized places knows only to adjust everything to show green in the display and sometimes getting the settings withing the green zone alone is not enough and it needs to be fine tuned.

also check your lower arms and lower arm bushes. See if you could find any impact marks on them (may be an arm is bent)

Good luck with solving the issue, mine drove me nuts

well it pulls to left side when driven in a straight road. anyway thank you for the advices. I will check them out.

[hasmax]

Dear all. Thank you so much for the concern u showed for me. I will check them out this weekend and hopefully i may get a solution. U guys made my day. cheers

[samwicky]

Can somebody please let me know contact number of car care, wellawatta? TX!!!

[The Don]

Can somebody please let me know contact number of car care, wellawatta? TX!!!

Sorry mate, don't have the number but if you go during office hours, on most days they can take your car in fairly quickly (at least this is my experience).

[fonfe]

Wheel balancing is not needed for a wheel alignment. Never has been never will be.

Attaching a small weight of under 50grams will not affect alignment. It will have an impact on the drive yes but not to actually carry out an alignment. (unless a wheel is buckled but then you shouldn’t be booking in for an alignment if thats the case)

However having an alignment done with already worn out tyres isn’t worth the time as that WILL give an incorrect result once tyres are changed.

Have your car done using a computerised laser setup. But have the person carrying out the job to PRINT the setup once he has finished. That will ensure he does a decent job....aka doesn’t just get it in the green but gets it bang on. Also means they bother to take the time to select the correct car in the software as all cars have their different tolerances and they may have just been setting everything up to zero in the past and thats not what should be done.

If you find that your camber needs adjusting but the car was built with no adjustment DONT have someone "repair" it via bending and or slotting holes.... if its out and its not adjustable that means it hasn’t been knocked out....something is BENT. Replace the bent part, don’t try and unbend it. If you can’t find anything bent then the sub frame or the car its self is bent from an accident. If thats the case sell it on, its not worth keeping a dodgy car.

[The Don]

Wheel balancing is not needed for a wheel alignment. Never has been never will be.

Attaching a small weight of under 50grams will not affect alignment. It will have an impact on the drive yes but not to actually carry out an alignment. (unless a wheel is buckled but then you shouldn’t be booking in for an alignment if thats the case)

However having an alignment done with already worn out tyres isn’t worth the time as that WILL give an incorrect result once tyres are changed.

Have your car done using a computerised laser setup. But have the person carrying out the job to PRINT the setup once he has finished. That will ensure he does a decent job....aka doesn’t just get it in the green but gets it bang on. Also means they bother to take the time to select the correct car in the software as all cars have their different tolerances and they may have just been setting everything up to zero in the past and thats not what should be done.

If you find that your camber needs adjusting but the car was built with no adjustment DONT have someone "repair" it via bending and or slotting holes.... if its out and its not adjustable that means it hasn’t been knocked out....something is BENT. Replace the bent part, don’t try and unbend it. If you can’t find anything bent then the sub frame or the car its self is bent from an accident. If thats the case sell it on, its not worth keeping a dodgy car.

Fonfe, the most common reason for having the camber out is due changing to a different sized rim. In SL, this is corrected via the so called slotted method, modified bolts, or by using a hydraulic puller to adjust the camber which can only be done within certain tolerances. The last two seem to be the most succesful method.

Ironically some of the best known wheel alignment places in SL also prefer the full manual method, and I recently had my alignment done at one such establishment, and I used modified camber adjustment bolts to correct the camber and very happy with the results.

[Nimz77]

Fonfe, the most common reason for having the camber out is due changing to a different sized rim. In SL, this is corrected via the so called slotted method, modified bolts, or by using a hydraulic puller to adjust the camber which can only be done within certain tolerances. The last two seem to be the most succesful method.

Ironically some of the best known wheel alignment places in SL also prefer the full manual method, and I recently had my alignment done at one such establishment, and I used modified camber adjustment bolts to correct the camber and very happy with the results.

could you please let us know...place?

[The Don]

could you please let us know...place?

It's Car Care Wellawatte. I went there after good feedback from other AL members. There is another good place recommended by member AmilaG in Walana. If you search for wheel alignment you will find his thread with lots of good information.

[Rumesh88]

Fonfe, the most common reason for having the camber out is due changing to a different sized rim. In SL, this is corrected via the so called slotted method, modified bolts, or by using a hydraulic puller to adjust the camber which can only be done within certain tolerances. The last two seem to be the most succesful method.

Ironically some of the best known wheel alignment places in SL also prefer the full manual method, and I recently had my alignment done at one such establishment, and I used modified camber adjustment bolts to correct the camber and very happy with the results.

I do agree with Don's comments particularly with regard to use of manual methods. After all, every parameter in wheel alignment finally boils down to simple geometry. There is nothing wrong with computerized wheel alignment but in some places the mechanics are so much dependent on the tool that they simply ignore the basics.

Please see if your front suspension match with the attached diagram - a common arrangement for many vehicles. .

Edited January 16, 2013 by Rumesh88

[fonfe]

I’ve done both laser and manual both on road going cars and full race vehicles and laser I find to be a far simpler method. manual brings back memories of Dunlop gauges, magnetic spirit levels and pointed metal weights on string and drawing marks on the floor to then cross measure.

If you cock up a laser alignment you’re in the wrong job in my opinion, its easy and simple, along with being very time and cost effective.

It was only because of this view that I’ve recommended a laser alignment as it’s pretty hard to get wrong and with the added print out it means you know what settings the car has been set up to.

my problem with the slotted bolts and bending items to correct is that lanka is pretty full of pot holes, won’t take much of a hit in one to knock it all back out again, then your back to square one as I’m guessing the method will be the same as the boy racers do for correcting camber after lowering their cars. They rely on the bolts physical tightness to keep everything in place once it’s in the correct position rather than 2 offset washers held against 2 welded tabs and a lock washer to complete the setup which is what you find as an OE setup.

One could however always make this setup yourself providing you get the bolts and offset washers from another car.

Off the top of my head I know all rwd BMWs have reasonably small ones as do EVO's and most Subaru’s.

BUT this still doesn’t find the root cause of the problem...... if the vehicle is pulling to one side then something is more than likely bent or excessively worn.

Yes larger wheels will affect camber but not just to one side. (Unless he is rolling round with 18s on one side and 16s on the other of course)

The vehicle is only pulling to one side, this means that:

The camber is much more positive on the pulling side than the other

Or

The toe in/out is not even between the wheels. (i.e. left wheel toe out when the right is dead straight)

Or

The castor angle is not the same as the opposite side

Or

The steering axis inclination is out (this will only cause pulling to one side at slow speeds though)

All of the above is usually caused by an incorrect adjustment or bent and/or worn out parts

.

May be worth him measuring the distance from the bottom of the wheel arch to the centre of the wheel on both sides and checking the ride height is even on both sides and this isn’t all due to a sagging front spring.

[The Don]

I’ve done both laser and manual both on road going cars and full race vehicles and laser I find to be a far simpler method. manual brings back memories of Dunlop gauges, magnetic spirit levels and pointed metal weights on string and drawing marks on the floor to then cross measure.

If you cock up a laser alignment you’re in the wrong job in my opinion, its easy and simple, along with being very time and cost effective.

It was only because of this view that I’ve recommended a laser alignment as it’s pretty hard to get wrong and with the added print out it means you know what settings the car has been set up to.

my problem with the slotted bolts and bending items to correct is that lanka is pretty full of pot holes, won’t take much of a hit in one to knock it all back out again, then your back to square one as I’m guessing the method will be the same as the boy racers do for correcting camber after lowering their cars. They rely on the bolts physical tightness to keep everything in place once it’s in the correct position rather than 2 offset washers held against 2 welded tabs and a lock washer to complete the setup which is what you find as an OE setup.

One could however always make this setup yourself providing you get the bolts and offset washers from another car.

Off the top of my head I know all rwd BMWs have reasonably small ones as do EVO's and most Subaru’s.

BUT this still doesn’t find the root cause of the problem...... if the vehicle is pulling to one side then something is more than likely bent or excessively worn.

Yes larger wheels will affect camber but not just to one side. (Unless he is rolling round with 18s on one side and 16s on the other of course)

The vehicle is only pulling to one side, this means that:

The camber is much more positive on the pulling side than the other

Or

The toe in/out is not even between the wheels. (i.e. left wheel toe out when the right is dead straight)

Or

The castor angle is not the same as the opposite side

Or

The steering axis inclination is out (this will only cause pulling to one side at slow speeds though)

All of the above is usually caused by an incorrect adjustment or bent and/or worn out parts

.

May be worth him measuring the distance from the bottom of the wheel arch to the centre of the wheel on both sides and checking the ride height is even on both sides and this isn’t all due to a sagging front spring.

Fonfe, the manual guys also use lazers but the readings are taken from the elements attached to the wheels not from a terminal. They just don't use a system connected with a computer which has the data pre set. Most of the time they know what the values should be or they conduct a reference manual which has the values.