Feedback On Forum Etiquette, Standards And Courtesy

[The Don]

Hi guys,

I think this has been the elephant in the room for a while but we haven't quite addressed it directly yet. I think it is safe to say that there is a lot of conflict in the forum, and while this in itself is not a bad thing, the way this then translates to pages and pages of bad language, personal attacks etc which sometimes resemble a school yard fight rather than a discussion amongst adults (the school children in the forum are excused )

Unfortunately this has somewhat become a problem for me (as well as Supra Natural and Pericles) as the current moderators in the forum.

So I was hoping we could as a group agree on things like forum etiquette, standards and what we should do when members step out of line. This should be an open discussion and I hope everyone will contribute their own 2 cents.

I would really like feedback on things like

1. What is acceptable and unacceptable language in the forum

2. Where do we draw the line between a heated debate and threatening abusing behaviour

3. How do we promote free speech and open discussion while keeping the discussions relevant

4. How should members relate to each other

5. How do we promote diversity of opinions without resorting to abuse and personal attacks

6. What do with offenders who does not conform to the code of practice we adopt.

The floor is now open! Hopefully the discussion will lead to a code of practice which can be applied in a fair open manner across the board and agreed to us as a group.

[Sylvi]

Hi guys,

I think this has been the elephant in the room for a while but we haven't quite addressed it directly yet. I think it is safe to say that there is a lot of conflict in the forum, and while this in itself is not a bad thing, the way this then translates to pages and pages of bad language, personal attacks etc which sometimes resemble a school yard fight rather than a discussion amongst adults (the school children in the forum are excused )

Unfortunately this has somewhat become a problem for me (as well as Supra Natural and Pericles) as the current moderators in the forum.

So I was hoping we could as a group agree on things like forum etiquette, standards and what we should do when members step out of line. This should be an open discussion and I hope everyone will contribute their own 2 cents.

I would really like feedback on things like

1. What is acceptable and unacceptable language in the forum

2. Where do we draw the line between a heated debate and threatening abusing behaviour

3. How do we promote free speech and open discussion while keeping the discussions relevant

4. How should members relate to each other

5. How do we promote diversity of opinions without resorting to abuse and personal attacks

6. What do with offenders who does not conform to the code of practice we adopt.

The floor is now open! Hopefully the discussion will lead to a code of practice which can be applied in a fair open manner across the board and agreed to us as a group.

'The Don'

Moderator,

Thank you for posting above (code of practice) it is a very good step you have taken to stop unwanted posts (abusing) by some members to other members.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[MasterDon]

f**k etiquette...99% of the threads are well behaved.The only reason fights happen is when some dumbshit comes and posts something stupid or misleading.Those fights are the ones which should be credited with exposing frauds like Gayfornican and Sylvi etc.Theres no telling how many would have been misled IF the seniors didn't jump in and let the posers have their own way.I suggest(with all do respect) 'The Don' should not take his new job too seriously and try to establish a new regime.

[Crosswind]

I personally agree that there should be a code of conduct in any internet forum. Just like there are unwritten rules about how one behaves in public. And I do personally agree about all the 6 action points that you have posted. Imho, there should be a 7th item in that list too

7. How do we prevent members from posting irrelevant/misleading content in the forum

[Supra_Natural]

f**k etiquette...99% of the threads are well behaved.The only reason fights happen is when some dumbshit comes and posts something stupid or misleading.Those fights are the ones which should be credited with exposing frauds like Gayfornican and Sylvi etc.Theres no telling how many would have been misled IF the seniors didn't jump in and let the posers have their own way.I suggest(with all do respect) 'The Don' should not take his new job too seriously and try to establish a new regime.

Simmer down machan, no one's trying to establish a new anything, The Don's just asking for opinions on the subject. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we can have some sort of consensus on the subject.

whether we can ACHIEVE the consensus remains to be seen. Still it's worth a shot.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Supra_Natural

[The Don]

f**k etiquette...99% of the threads are well behaved.The only reason fights happen is when some dumbshit comes and posts something stupid or misleading.Those fights are the ones which should be credited with exposing frauds like Gayfornican and Sylvi etc.Theres no telling how many would have been misled IF the seniors didn't jump in and let the posers have their own way.I suggest(with all do respect) 'The Don' should not take his new job too seriously and try to establish a new regime.

MasterDon, while I respect your opinion this is exactly the sort of thing that I am trying to avoid. Why in the planet do you feel the need to use language like this. If you disagree you disagree, and you are never going to get into a situation where everybody agrees on something. That does not mean we should call people who do not agree with you names and so on.

And to be honest there are other people who feel the same way as I do.

And anyway this is more about building consensus more than anything else. If people want the forum to be a battle ground, then fine, I respect that. You might note that I rarely get involved with these discussions. The only difference now is I have to officiate in some of those discussions, and I just want to do so in a fair consistent way.

In the end I shall bow my head to what we decide as a group.

And if you are unhappy with what I'm trying to do, don't use the report functionality, just drop a pm to MADZ directly

[Pericles]

f**k etiquette...99% of the threads are well behaved.The only reason fights happen is when some dumbshit comes and posts something stupid or misleading.Those fights are the ones which should be credited with exposing frauds like Gayfornican and Sylvi etc.Theres no telling how many would have been misled IF the seniors didn't jump in and let the posers have their own way.I suggest(with all do respect) 'The Don' should not take his new job too seriously and try to establish a new regime.

This isn't a new regime thing dude. Its just a matter of hitting a balance between free speech and personal hits, or OT and misleading.

If we did get draconian about the misleading things, then Nikan and Sylvi's ramblings will disappear before anyone needs to fight about it. Auto cleanup. Wasn't all that viable before coz we didn't have the manpower, and sometimes the knowhow, to cross the points off.

Take that brake issue thread. If I knew enough about the subject and the policy was in place, then it wouldn't have gone past two posts before the misleading posts were removed. And then no one would need to fight over it.

Since the mod team's car IQ is now considerably higher, it might be worth looking into.

[Supra_Natural]

'The Don'

Moderator,

Thank you for posting above (code of practice) it is a very good step you have taken to stop unwanted posts (abusing) by some members to other members.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Sylvi, the reason a lot of abuse is hurled at you is because you have on COUNTLESS occasions diverted discussions by posting random rambling nonsense. Your recollections would actually have been interesting to some of us if you had confined them to one thread (in fact we created a thread for that purpose, which you didn't use), but of course you didnt do that.

When someone pointed out how much your posts diverted the topic, you would most often insult that person's parentage, school, language, upbringing and a variety of other things.

So kindly spare us the self righteous nonsense, okay?

[The Don]

Simmer down machan, no one's trying to establish a new anything, The Don's just asking for opinions on the subject. Personally I think it would be a good idea if we can have some sort of consensus on the subject.

whether we can ACHIEVE the consensus remains to be seen. Still it's worth a shot.

Thanks for the support Supra. Whether we achieve any consensus or not to be honest I don't know. I think we just need to be fair and consistent.

We do seem to get worked up over little things sometimes

[Supra_Natural]

Thanks for the support Supra. Whether we achieve any consensus or not to be honest I don't know. I think we just need to be fair and consistent.

We do seem to get worked up over little things sometimes

Anytime sir, I'm in full agreement on the need for a consensus.

We certainly do get worked up! I'm guilty of it as well im afraid, especially when Nikan is involved!

I do admire your restraint in staying out of the arguments though, I don't think I'll be able to entirely manage that haha!

[The Don]

Anytime sir, I'm in full agreement on the need for a consensus.

We certainly do get worked up! I'm guilty of it as well im afraid, especially when Nikan is involved!

I do admire your restraint in staying out of the arguments though, I don't think I'll be able to entirely manage that haha!

Supra, like you I've had plenty of practice Ironically I learned it in the school yard battle ground known as ELA Everything we did led to some sort of "waliya" of one form or the other, and that madness had to stop. When you get a collection of talented opiniated people, you rarely get total consensus, but you make compromises so that we could move on and make progress. If you don't you really can't work in teams, at least teams of gifted talented people who does have an opinion.

There is a lot of BS in the forum, and lots of misleading comments and advice. But I think the key thing is whether it is given in good faith. As with all things said or advice given in a forum, the information can never be validated 100% as this is not a professional edited source of information. It's a forum!

[MasterDon]

MasterDon, while I respect your opinion this is exactly the sort of thing that I am trying to avoid. Why in the planet do you feel the need to use language like this. If you disagree you disagree, and you are never going to get into a situation where everybody agrees on something. That does not mean we should call people who do not agree with you names and so on.

And to be honest there are other people who feel the same way as I do.

And anyway this is more about building consensus more than anything else. If people want the forum to be a battle ground, then fine, I respect that. You might note that I rarely get involved with these discussions. The only difference now is I have to officiate in some of those discussions, and I just want to do so in a fair consistent way.

In the end I shall bow my head to what we decide as a group.

And if you are unhappy with what I'm trying to do, don't use the report functionality, just drop a pm to MADZ directly

Yes Yes I noticed you staying out of the fights.I did not see you get involved when some members were spewing bullshit allover the forums.You let others to challenge the BS and get warning points from Peri and MADZ while you acted all saintly.

I thoroughly approve your appointment as a moderator.But I'm highly disgusted by you trying act like Jesus now and try to blame the few members who gave a damn and tried to keep the BS out one way or another.It may not have been 'nice' yet it was effective.

[Sylvi]

OK Moderators I will adhere to your advice. I think I am the only member with most number of totaling 4 warning points. There are one or two members who act like Mr been.

Thank you.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Schiffer]

just a silly suggestion

if the thread is getting too much OT,

why dont u just move the conversation to a separate thread, lets just say "Over Topic"

and lock it so only the members who are in the argument can read the posts. which will prevent other parties making it go on and on and external people wont be able to read it.

that way, language wont be an issue as well.

[Schiffer]

OK Moderators I will adhere to your advice. I think I am the only member with most number of totaling 4 warning points. There are one or two members who act like Mr been.

Thank you.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

* Mr. Bean

[Supra_Natural]

Yes Yes I noticed you staying out of the fights.I did not see you get involved when some members were spewing bullshit allover the forums.You let others to challenge the BS and get warning points from Peri and MADZ while you acted all saintly.

I thoroughly approve your appointment as a moderator.But I'm highly disgusted by you trying act like Jesus now and try to blame the few members who gave a damn and tried to keep the BS out one way or another.It may not have been 'nice' yet it was effective.

MD, The Don has stepped in plenty of times when people have posted incorrect information or anything that was misleading, when he knew he could provide a clear response or rebuttal.

It's just that unlike the rest of us (myself included), he chooses to conduct his arguments without dissolving into verbal b**chslapping, which of course means the post usually does not attract attention. There's nothing wrong with that, its just how he is, trust me man, I know the guy from way back....

And no one's blaming anyone dude, its just a general observation on how things can degenerate quickly sometimes....

Edited September 12, 2012 by Supra_Natural

[MADZ]

f**k etiquette...99% of the threads are well behaved.The only reason fights happen is when some dumbshit comes and posts something stupid or misleading.Those fights are the ones which should be credited with exposing frauds like Gayfornican and Sylvi etc.Theres no telling how many would have been misled IF the seniors didn't jump in and let the posers have their own way.I suggest(with all do respect) 'The Don' should not take his new job too seriously and try to establish a new regime.

I agree with you MasterDon...as a senior member It is a good practice to engage if someone post BS in the forum but you must do it without using bad language. The Don and rest of the mods are trying to find a way to solve broad range of issues along with what you have raised. So please stop pointing fingers and show your support to combat these issues.

[The Don]

Yes Yes I noticed you staying out of the fights.I did not see you get involved when some members were spewing bullshit allover the forums.You let others to challenge the BS and get warning points from Peri and MADZ while you acted all saintly.

I thoroughly approve your appointment as a moderator.But I'm highly disgusted by you trying act like Jesus now and try to blame the few members who gave a damn and tried to keep the BS out one way or another.It may not have been 'nice' yet it was effective.

MD, Like most people in the forum I have a day job. I correct things, and I point out things when I know what I am talking about and stay away when I don't or I have nothing to contribute to the argument. Sainthood is hardly what I'm after. But lets not make this a verbal contest between you and me.

You and I have different opinions, but the world and for that matter this forum is big enough for both of us.

[terrabytetango]

While I agree with MD about staving off all the B.S., we do need to take a second look at a post before getting the pitchforks out. We lose nothing by exercising a little patience with first time offenders and n00bs. Obviously there needs to be a line drawn somewhere distinguishing n00bishness and dumbassedness, but all in all I believe we're all a little too quick on the draw when it comes to stereotyping and ostracizing those with certain eccentricities.

Just my 0.02 and let the flak begin

[The Don]

While I agree with MD about staving off all the B.S., we do need to take a second look at a post before getting the pitchforks out. We lose nothing by exercising a little patience with first time offenders and n00bs. Obviously there needs to be a line drawn somewhere distinguishing n00bishness and dumbassedness, but all in all I believe we're all a little too quick on the draw when it comes to stereotyping and ostracizing those with certain eccentricities.

Just my 0.02 and let the flak begin

Well I guess you must have figured out by now that everybody in over here do not have the same level of knowledge of cars and as its customary in SL some base their knowledge on hearsay.

The question is how do we deal with such posts, comments, or for that matter general attitude towards other members by some of these members who clearly don't know what they are talking about.

And what do we do about posts, comments by people who continue to persist and try to feed the rest medicine they neither wont nor need (I face the same issue in real life, I have a bunch of Jehova's witnesses who try to get me to come to their meetings every Saturday. Because they are elderly gentleman I'm polite in my responses but it does get quite annoying).

Personally my view to dealing with trolling is to not feed the troll. Trolls are attention seekers with a misguided superiority complex but if they don't get the attention they need they will simply disappear..............

[Pericles]

OK Moderators I will adhere to your advice. I think I am the only member with most number of totaling 4 warning points. There are one or two members who act like Mr been.

Thank you.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

You give yourself far too much credit. One of the things about this warning system is that only moderators can see other people's warning. So just coz you don't see other people's warnings, don't assume you have the top score

[carboy2011]

thats good im all for it!

Hi guys,

I think this has been the elephant in the room for a while but we haven't quite addressed it directly yet. I think it is safe to say that there is a lot of conflict in the forum, and while this in itself is not a bad thing, the way this then translates to pages and pages of bad language, personal attacks etc which sometimes resemble a school yard fight rather than a discussion amongst adults (the school children in the forum are excused )

Unfortunately this has somewhat become a problem for me (as well as Supra Natural and Pericles) as the current moderators in the forum.

So I was hoping we could as a group agree on things like forum etiquette, standards and what we should do when members step out of line. This should be an open discussion and I hope everyone will contribute their own 2 cents.

I would really like feedback on things like

1. What is acceptable and unacceptable language in the forum

2. Where do we draw the line between a heated debate and threatening abusing behaviour

3. How do we promote free speech and open discussion while keeping the discussions relevant

4. How should members relate to each other

5. How do we promote diversity of opinions without resorting to abuse and personal attacks

6. What do with offenders who does not conform to the code of practice we adopt.

The floor is now open! Hopefully the discussion will lead to a code of practice which can be applied in a fair open manner across the board and agreed to us as a group.

[jdnet]

OK Moderators I will adhere to your advice. I think I am the only member with most number of totaling 4 warning points. There are one or two members who act like Mr been.

Thank you.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

It's Mr. Bean. Not Been. If you are trying to be insulting, at least learn to spell it right.

[jdnet]

On another note, how about you guys start by trying to end Sylvi's nonsense? His posts are verbal diarrhea and his advice is both dangerous to n00bs who know nothing about cars and insulting to this forum as a whole. You want to make this a better place? stop sylvi's b.s. and stop him from taking every single thread off topic and defending himself by saying he has 50 years experience and we come from whore mothers and went to third class schools. Before you guys talk about everyone else being rude and going O.T., how about dealing with this old prick?

Edited September 12, 2012 by jdnet

[Watchman]

In a perfect world we may have a "Dear sir but I cannot with good conscious agree with your post on yada yada yada......", but this is NOT such a place.

I'm with MD on the fact that some people need to be set right. The only people we rip on (about thier very first post) are those who create a new topic just cos they are lazy to do a search. Every single other person that's bieng gang-banged didnt start that way. We didnt all rip on Sylvi with his first post. As he continually and consistently shows that he cannot stay on topic or give factually correct advice we started ripping on him. I'm sure no-one ripped on Cali's very first post. IJ too used to be a decent member at one point of time. So i dont see a need to change a system that has worked for years... The only difference is with the higher traffic AL gets it gets proportionality more dumb-asses.

The Don, Can you tell me what your solution for the following scenario is.

Someone (let's call him Saman) after years of hard work can afford to up his lifestyle and wants to buy a car with his savings of 1.5million. Yet he has no family or friends to ask for advice. Saman created an account and logs into Autolanka and asks for advice. A self claimed wise old man (let's call him Mr. Silva) tells hims that chinese vehicles would be No.1 in the world in 20 years time and therefore he should buy that. Or a Tata Nano because Mr. Silva's neighbor bought 5 of them. Saman, thinking 'hey this guy has 49 years of experience, so he cant be wrong' goes and buys a Tata Nano. Three months down the line his engine's missing, suspension has worn out, body panels are leaking, clutch is slipping and the brakes are messed up. What can Saman do? Will Mr. Silva compensate Saman with even just a fraction of Mr. Silva's inherited wealth? No, Mr. Silva says "hey, I just said it, not my fault if Saman did it because I told him to"...

So my question is, What credibility does AL have? Are you going to filter through the crap Sylvi Silva types and polite correct him? I haven't seen it done so far.

I recommended this before, but it went un-addressed. We know the people who get bitch-slapped all the time for their posts. And all you moderators know who i'm talking about.. So now that we have extra hands at work, why cant we put these people's posts on moderator-approved? Frankly its not like someone's gonna die because a google copy-paste result was delayed a few hours, or a rambling post on who owned what plot of land in 1950 wasnt published immediately.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Watchman