check engine only 2 times

[dilan_randika]

Pleas Help.
Car: Toyota Belta 2008 1300cc
Issue: On the 1st journey of the day, after drive 2KM, check engine light on & then off. after drive about 0.5KM from there, again check engine light On & then gets off. Not getting on for that day again. Same thing happens daily.

scan result: error code p0500 - Vehicle Speed Sensor fault.

What can be the issue? Please help. 

[Davy]

  On 2/9/2017 at 12:49 PM, gayanath said:

Could you explain how this scenario happens?

I mean if cleanliness is the problem, how this comes exactly two times a day and which withing the perfect interval.? Why don't it comes continuously or occasionally? 

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Cleaning it is a step carried out to prevent the chances of replacing a working sensor. It's standard procedure for any sensor.  This is why I said 1.Clean 2.Check wiring 3.Test sensor. 

Also, we really can't conclude why the problem happens exactly two times. That isn't really relevant to the diagnosis in this case. However, the VSS generates electrical pulses which is measured by the gauge cluster and the ECU. A faulty unit can result in one or two pulses to be dropped intermittently. The ECU waits for a certain amount of time/occurrences  before raising the Check Engine light. This is because a problem can be a one off issue that may never occur again. When the ECU reaches a threshold, the indicator is illuminated. That's how it works for pretty much all errors. So there's a good chance for the issue to happen the exact number of times during a trip.

Also, the VSS signal is what's used to move the speedometer and tick up the odometer. There is a good chance for there to be a relationship between the distance and the Check Engine indicator.

I had an issue with a camshaft position sensor once where the car would stall evey 15 minutes or so. And it would not start until the engine was cool again. We really can't explain the relationship between time, but in my case it was heat causing the sensor to fail. 

If you have a look at a workshop manual, based on what the error code is, evey error has a list of possible causes and a list of steps to diagnose it. None of them say "if the issue happens x amount of times, check this",  "if the issue happens in the morning, check this" etc.  OP simply has to follow the steps suggested regardless of the frequency, distance or time of day. 

Hope this answers your question. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Davy
Corrected typo

[hrm]

Doesn't the scan report clearly says what's wrong?

[Rumesh88]

Error code P0500 is for the speed sensor (VSS) that could be failing intermittently. You can find the VSS sensor on the top of the transmission housing fixed with a 10mm bolt. First step is to remove the sensor and clean it by wiping to remove any grime gathered on its body over time. Also you can observe the cleanliness of the flywheel teeth through the opening once you remove the VSS. Usually it should be clean and shiny. If cleaning the sensor does not solve the issue then you will have to visually check other things like wiring, connector, etc before deciding to replace the VSS.

[dilan_randika]

  On 2/9/2017 at 8:32 AM, Rumesh88 said:

Error code P0500 is for the speed sensor (VSS) that could be failing intermittently. You can find the VSS sensor on the top of the transmission housing fixed with a 10mm bolt. First step is to remove the sensor and clean it by wiping to remove any grime gathered on its body over time. Also you can observe the cleanliness of the flywheel teeth through the opening once you remove the VSS. Usually it should be clean and shiny. If cleaning the sensor does not solve the issue then you will have to visually check other things like wiring, connector, etc before deciding to replace the VSS.

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Thnx Rumesh.

But y this kinda 'check engine on' appearance. i mean 2 times per day in 1st journey only.

if it's something to do with the sensor, shouldn't check engine warns continuously ?

[gayanath]

If this comes occasionally and no relation or no pattern, most probably there may be loose connection.

But in your case, since it has some relation ship with journey distance or time need to check further. 

1. How many days you observed this?

2. Is every day same pattern? (I mean after 2 km first indication, then after 0.5 km second indication, then no issue)

3. Is there any day/s which not happen it or happend on different times? 

4. When this happens, do you observe any malfunction of any other system or difference in acceleration, etc,

5. Did you service (i mean under wash) your car recently? 

 

[dilan_randika]

  On 2/9/2017 at 10:46 AM, gayanath said:

If this comes occasionally and no relation or no pattern, most probably there may be loose connection.

But in your case, since it has some relation ship with journey distance or time need to check further. 

1. How many days you observed this?

2. Is every day same pattern? (I mean after 2 km first indication, then after 0.5 km second indication, then no issue)

3. Is there any day/s which not happen it or happend on different times? 

4. When this happens, do you observe any malfunction of any other system or difference in acceleration, etc,

5. Did you service (i mean under wash) your car recently? 

 

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1. Daily

2. Same pattern. I even know the place it comes on on my way. Such a funny pattern.
3. no

4. no

5. no

[Davy]

OP, follow Rumesh88's advice. P0500 is pretty common on the Yaris and Belta. As a matter of fact, my brother in law used a 2008 Belta and got a P0500 and cleaning the VSS solved the issue. I did it myself and the sensor was exactly as Rumesh88 described. 

The VSS on the Yaris and Belta has a hard plastic gear at the tip of the sensor and this can get dirty. Clean the sensor and inspect wiring close to the transmission. If you can  get hold of a workshop manual, you'll even be able to find the proper VSS test procedure. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Davy

[gayanath]

  On 2/9/2017 at 12:24 PM, Davy said:

OP, follow Rumesh88's advice. P0500 is pretty common on the Yaris and Belta. As a matter of fact, my brother in law used a 2008 Belta and got a P0500 and cleaning the VSS solved the issue. I did it myself and the sensor was exactly as Rumesh88 described. 

The VSS on the Yaris and Belta has a hard plastic gear at the tip of the sensor and this can get dirty. Clean the sensor and inspect wiring close to the transmission. If you can  get hold of a workshop manual, you'll even be able to find the proper VSS test procedure. 

Expand  

Could you explain how this scenario happens?

I mean if cleanliness is the problem, how this comes exactly two times a day and which withing the perfect interval.? Why don't it comes continuously or occasionally? 

[dilan_randika]

  On 2/9/2017 at 12:49 PM, gayanath said:

Could you explain how this scenario happens?

I mean if cleanliness is the problem, how this comes exactly two times a day and which withing the perfect interval.? Why don't it comes continuously or occasionally? 

Expand  

exactly..... how come ...?????

[gayanath]

  On 2/9/2017 at 1:18 PM, Davy said:

Cleaning it is a step carried out to prevent the chances of replacing a working sensor. It's standard procedure for any sensor.  This is why I said 1.Clean 2.Check wiring 3.Test sensor. 

Also, we really can't conclude why the problem happens exactly two times. That isn't really relevant to the diagnosis in this case. However, the VSS generates electrical pulses which is measured by the gauge cluster and the ECU. A faulty unit can result in one or two pulses to be dropped intermittently. The ECU waits for a certain amount of time/occurrences  before raising the Check Engine light. This is because a problem can be a one off issue that may never occur again. When the ECU reaches a threshold, the indicator is illuminated. That's how it works for pretty much all errors. So there's a good chance for the issue to happen the exact number of times during a trip.

Also, the VSS signal is what's used to move the speedometer and tick up the odometer. There is a good chance for there to be a relationship between the distance and the Check Engine indicator.

I had an issue with a camshaft position sensor once where the car would stall evey 15 minutes or so. And it would not start until the engine was cool again. We really can't explain the relationship between time, but in my case it was heat causing the sensor to fail. 

Hope this answers your question. 

Expand  

Great...... Thanks a lot .....

 

  Quote

If you have a look at a workshop manual, based on what the error code is, evey error has a list of possible causes and a list of steps to diagnose it. None of them say "if the issue happens x amount of times, check this",  "if the issue happens in the morning, check this" etc.  OP simply has to follow the steps suggested regardless of the frequency, distance or time of day. 

Expand  

If we didn't consider the behavior, we will not learn how it happens ne?  

Edited February 9, 2017 by gayanath

[gayanath]

Double post - deleted

Edited February 9, 2017 by gayanath
Double post - Deleted

[Rumesh88]

  On 2/9/2017 at 10:13 AM, dilan_randika said:

Thnx Rumesh.

But y this kinda 'check engine on' appearance. i mean 2 times per day in 1st journey only.

if it's something to do with the sensor, shouldn't check engine warns continuously ?

Expand  

Well I did not miss the point in my first reply. That is why I used the word "intermittently" but as you have repeatedly indicated the nature of the fault seems very much consistent. Still I would say the first solution is to clean the VSS  because the symptoms are so funny I can only attribute the fault to something paranormal otherwise (Perhaps you may have to seek the services of an exorcist ). Anyway keep us posted of the outcome because it is really interesting.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Rumesh88

[dilan_randika]

finally the  issue went off its own for last 2-3days .......

hope for the best ......

2 things done to the car b4 the result

1. fixed tire punch of a front wheel which had been for sometime b4 finally decided to check & fixed.

2. google god somewhere said, remove fuel cap & let fuel gas pressure built in to b released itself. did that too

1st one is silly but found the below in google. but think this car model is not that much advanced right? even iCVT equipped.

"

Low Tire Pressure

On some of today's most new vehicles your car monitors your tire pressure. If it gets low your check engine light may come on. This is a great warning as low tire pressure can cause your fuel efficiency to drop by 10 percent or more. "

[Rumesh88]

Glad to hear that your issue is resolved. Tire pressure or more correctly the wheel speed is monitored and would give you a warning through ABS system if the pressure is low (or the rotational speed is consistently high) in one tyre compared to others. But it is not P0500 code. However, who knows, the ECU may think differently based on its design algorithms and it is a possible cause for the code.

Gas pressure or a vacuum is formed when fuel is pumped out. The gas cap has a pressure release mechanism when the vacuum is excessive. The integrity of this system is monitored with a routine EVAP control test but will not produce code P0500.

[dilan_randika]

in addition, here i want to emphasis this too..

1. ordinary place procedure

scan -> clean speed sensor n clear codes -> asked to run, if check eng. comes again, asked to replace vss

2. advice by t.p call by tune up mechanic

go ahead & replace speed sensor

3. the agent (TL)

scan -> clear codes -> asked to run. if comes again, asked to bring for complete wire harness check. at this point, they had come to conclusion that this probably not something to do with the sensor as the nature of the issue is coming.

 

lesson to learn -> ' the steps, procedure etc. of the agent is very professional & it associates their skills.... ' [it should be so in other hand u know ]

just my 2 cents.......

again hope for the best .....

[gayanath]

  On 2/16/2017 at 12:09 PM, dilan_randika said:

in addition, here i want to emphasis this too..

1. ordinary place procedure

scan -> clean speed sensor n clear codes -> asked to run, if check eng. comes again, asked to replace vss

2. advice by t.p call by tune up mechanic

go ahead & replace speed sensor

3. the agent (TL)

scan -> clear codes -> asked to run. if comes again, asked to bring for complete wire harness check. at this point, they had come to conclusion that this probably not something to do with the sensor as the nature of the issue is coming.

 

lesson to learn -> ' the steps, procedure etc. of the agent is very professional & it associates their skills.... ' [it should be so in other hand u know ]

just my 2 cents.......

again hope for the best .....

Expand  

Proper investigation is a prime requirement which should be done fist (before dismantling anything) irrespective of the place whether agent or not. 

But unfortunately, our mechanics (as well as some service advisers) doing it as the last step, follows all bullshits spending thousands of bucks from the vehicle owner. 

[Davy]

  On 2/17/2017 at 6:21 AM, gayanath said:

Proper investigation is a prime requirement which should be done fist (before dismantling anything) irrespective of the place whether agent or not. 

But unfortunately, our mechanics (as well as some service advisers) doing it as the last step, follows all bullshits spending thousands of bucks from the vehicle owner. 

Expand  

OP had already done a diagnostic scan. This is the preliminary investigation and that had already been done and it was identified that the error is a P0500. So the next obvious step is to carry out further investigation - test the sensor or wire harness or both. All of this require some level  of "dismantling". Taking off a VSS out of the transmission and testing it is not really rocket science, and doing so will reveal more unknown information which can be used to determine the correct course of action.

@dilan_randika, I highly doubt any of your actions (repairing the puncture and releasing fuel tank pressure) lead to the issue not appearing again. I still think your VSS was intermittently sending a faulty signal (most probably due to dirt, now that it magically fixed itself). Hope it stays that way.