Sporty sedan for permit

abiman · August 9, 2019

Hi,

Im planning to upgrade from CE110 for a 3.6M permit.

Im looking for a sedan and budget is 8M+Permit. (if I have realy good option I can get loan over this too)

I like sporty option with paddle shifters and modern tech, non hybrid and brandnew.

I like compact sedan or close match to my current car. Being a government employee I cant afford large depreciation. Up to 10% depreciation per year is ok from full market value of car.

Im planning to sell this in 3 years for our next permit.

Since Im from Galle, ability to service and maintain from around galle would be great.

Any suggestions are welcome.

abiman · August 11, 2019

1 hour ago, iRage said:

If you are a tech person who wants that to be happy in a car..then so be it..but also don't let the tech stuff detract you from buying a car that will actually give you driving satisfaction as well, especially if the tech stuff you are seeking for will not be used or work in a local context. Because at the end of the day...once the newness has worn out; if it does not give you a satisfying drive...when the tech goes bad (and it always does)....you are going to be miserable.

Yes They go bad and thanks for advice too. This is one of the reasons I want to buy brand new, not from an auction. Atleast I can make sure that everything works as intended.

I also noticed that the things getting bigger and your comment encourage me to look at bigger options. So I decided to seriously look at Civic 1.5, Accord, A5 and CLA.

Provided that I do timely maintenance, ride ~8000km/yr but not located near sea, do not wash the ride a lot ( once in ~6wks ), how many years I can realistically expect from tech of above cars. I have no experience about that. So any idea would be appreciated.

I checked the stafford for accord and price is 9M+Permit. But the car is made in Thailand. Stafford says it is same quality as JDM but born in Thailand. Can this become problem after 3 years (or 5years max). Specially I cant afford to buy a car worh 12.6m and sell it for less than 8.5M in 3 years.

kush · August 11, 2019

You will loose more on the accord as that segment cars depreciate more. 2007/8 Corolla and Camry will be same price now although Camry was double the price new.

Worried about depreciation settle fro the CRV. Euros will be nightmare to sell in 5-8 years, and you will have issues so a warranty is a must.

Most of the JDMs are made in Thailand if not the whole car majority of the parts.

Edited August 11, 2019 by kush

tiv · August 11, 2019

It would be helpful if there is some old site with ads from like 2014 2016 so that one can get an idea of what things costed when new, to get an idea of depreciation

kush · August 11, 2019

Out of curiosity did some research on why the JDM Hatch has more power and is expensive than the Saloon.

Hatch engine power identical with UK spec

Saloon with the Thailand model, Thailand does not produce the Hatch as it is not popular in this region.

May be Hatch is UK built and the Saloon Thailand.

May be iRage will be able to shed some light in to this

Edited August 11, 2019 by kush

iRage · August 11, 2019

6 hours ago, abiman said:

But the car is made in Thailand. Stafford says it is same quality as JDM but born in Thailand. Can this become problem after 3 years (or 5years max). Specially I cant afford to buy a car worh 12.6m and sell it for less than 8.5M in 3 years.

Makes no difference. Most of the cars for both the Japanese and export markets are now made in Thailand and any where in the world as it seems necessary to optimize production and distribution. The whole Thai models are not that good is a myth spread by car salesmen (these are the idiots who sell cars imported fromJapan with badges that clearly say Assembled in Thailand as Japanese built models).

How long will the tech last without giving issues ? No idea....but it is not all dooms day and not that fragile.

2 hours ago, kush said:

Out of curiosity did some research on why the JDM Hatch has more power and is expensive than the Saloon.

Hatch engine power identical with UK spec

Saloon with the Thailand model, Thailand does not produce the Hatch as it is not popular in this region.

May be Hatch is UK built and the Saloon Thailand.

May be iRage will be able to shed some light in to this

Not sure what you mean....by capacity to capacity the power output across the range is more or less the same ?

`JDM Hatch :

1.2L Turbo : 112ish hp (116PS?)

1.8L Hybrid : 95ish hp (engine) + 70ish hp (motor)

Euro Sedan

1.8L Hybrid : Same as JDM Hatch

1.6L Gasoline : 130hp (usual out put of the 1ZR-FAE engine)

Some markets have the 2.0L Hybrid which have more power　and a 2L gasoline (with about 170hp)

JDM sedan : Nothing official yet (Toyota has not even show the actual body yet; the body is supposed to be narrower than the export variant)

1.5L gasoline (interestingly this was published as 1.8L in the original press release : 95hp

1.2L T : same as JDM Hatch

1.8L Hybrid : same as JDM hatch

This is where my poor Japanese skills show up...the release said available engines for the next 2020 model year. However the article also said that the Current E160 series X grade will continue to be produced until late 2020. So I am not sure if the 1.5L engine was referring to the E160 1.5L or if the 1.5L will be available in the E200 series Corolla.

There is indication that Toyota might introduce the 2.0L variants and a limited 1.6L variant for a GT/GRMN type model (this might be just for the hatch though)

As far as I know SEA variants have the same power figures as the above depending on the capacity

1.6L : 125ish ? because for SEA the engine is the 1ZR-FBE, as opposed to the 1ZR-FAE engine in Europe. The 1ZR engines are carry ons from the current generation

1.8L/2.0L Hybrids : same as above...

Then there is also a 1.8L gasoline in some markets that put out about 140hp ? <this probably>

Where did you see that the JDM hatch and sedan power figures are different ? Or that the power figures across the regions and body types were drastically different ? As far as I can see the outputs across the regions are more or less the same for hatches, sedans and touring wagons.

As for assembly, the Sport is supposed to be assembled in the Takaoka factory. Can you check in your one if the ID plate has A31 or A32 as the Plant ID ?

Edited August 11, 2019 by iRage

ramishkad · August 12, 2019

12 hours ago, tiv said:

It would be helpful if there is some old site with ads from like 2014 2016 so that one can get an idea of what things costed when new, to get an idea of depreciation

You can check old archive.org snapshots of autolanka which will have the prices: https://web.archive.org/web/*/autolanka.com

Edited August 12, 2019 by ramishkad

kush · August 12, 2019

11 hours ago, iRage said:

Not sure what you mean....by capacity to capacity the power output across the range is more or less the same ?

`JDM Hatch :

1.2L Turbo : 112ish hp (116PS?)

1.8L Hybrid : 95ish hp (engine) + 70ish hp (motor)

Oops i was referring to the Civic Hatch and Saloon, power figures from Honda Japan official site, compared with official sites from UK and Thailand

abiman · August 12, 2019

22 hours ago, iRage said:

I checked with colonial motors about mazda 3 sedan 1.5l 2019 and their price CIF is 1.82m JPY. From japan honda website, Honda Civic sedan 1.5t costs little over 3.1m JPY with honda sensing option.

Does this mean Im loosing a lot if I go for Mazda 3 sedan? Many recommend mazda for driving fun.

Mazda 3 doesn't seem to have paddle shift and Honda seems to have more advanced cruse control. Also honda seems to offer much more power.

DJR · August 12, 2019

1 hour ago, abiman said:

I checked with colonial motors about mazda 3 sedan 1.5l 2019 and their price CIF is 1.82m JPY. From japan honda website, Honda Civic sedan 1.5t costs little over 3.1m JPY with honda sensing option.

Does this mean Im loosing a lot if I go for Mazda 3 sedan? Many recommend mazda for driving fun.

Mazda 3 doesn't seem to have paddle shift and Honda seems to have more advanced cruse control. Also honda seems to offer much more power.

Mazda 3 uses NA engine, while civic uses turbo engine. Civic has more power due to turbo charging. Turbo engine costs more to build. You can clarify this by going to following website & compare prices of 1.5 turbo civic. vs NA 1.8 civc.

https://www.carsguide.com.au/honda/civic/price/2019

Mazda 3 comes with 5 year warranty while civic comes with 3 year warranty (as per my memory)

RWD · August 12, 2019

2 hours ago, abiman said:

I checked with colonial motors about mazda 3 sedan 1.5l 2019 and their price CIF is 1.82m JPY. From japan honda website, Honda Civic sedan 1.5t costs little over 3.1m JPY with honda sensing option.

Does this mean Im loosing a lot if I go for Mazda 3 sedan? Many recommend mazda for driving fun.

Mazda 3 doesn't seem to have paddle shift and Honda seems to have more advanced cruse control. Also honda seems to offer much more power.

What are the specs that colonial is offering on the 3? Remember the new 3's come with the previous gen skyactiv 1.5 which powered the mazda2. Hardly the best engine for this car considering the 2.0 skyactiv is the base engine for other markets and the new skyactiv x has just been released.

iRage · August 12, 2019

2 hours ago, abiman said:

I checked with colonial motors about mazda 3 sedan 1.5l 2019 and their price CIF is 1.82m JPY. From japan honda website, Honda Civic sedan 1.5t costs little over 3.1m JPY with honda sensing option.

Does this mean Im loosing a lot if I go for Mazda 3 sedan? Many recommend mazda for driving fun.

Mazda 3 doesn't seem to have paddle shift and Honda seems to have more advanced cruse control. Also honda seems to offer much more power.

Well...here is the thing....you are comparing JDM prices with export model prices.

The JDM Mazda 3 Proactive which is similar to the Civic with Sensing; the Mazda 3 base price is close to 2.5 mil yen. Also, the JDM variant now only comes with the 2.0L SkyActiv engine or the SKYACIV-X engine (which costs 3.3mil yen). Mazdas have always been cheaper than Hondas and Toyotas...

The reason why the agent has a lower price is because the agent offers the model that the manufacturer has recommended for the local market. In this case, a model with the 1.5L SkyActiv engine. Also, yes. You will lose out on some tech because of two reasons. On one hand; the manufacturer does not recommend the technology for the market because it does not suit local operating conditions and inability to maintain/service the technology. On the other hand, the tech is not there because the local agent does not want to bring down a vehicle with certain tech because that would make the car unreasonably expensive due to the taxes. In some cases the local agent is willing to custom order the car with some of the options they would cut-out. The agent does charge a premium where for the same price or even less you might be able to get down a JDM variant with more bells and whistles.

Having said that...buying a car straight from the manufacturer's local agent has a whole load of benefits where the premium price and compromising on things like paddle shifts and radar cruise control, etc..might actually be worth.

abiman · August 12, 2019

10 minutes ago, RWD said:

What are the specs that colonial is offering on the 3? Remember the new 3's come with the previous gen skyactiv 1.5 which powered the mazda2. Hardly the best engine for this car considering the 2.0 skyactiv is the base engine for other markets and the new skyactiv x has just been released.

Attached all details I received. Hope this is not against the rules here.

mcs627 · August 12, 2019

Did you get a quote for the Honda Accord

abiman · August 12, 2019

1 hour ago, mcs627 said:

Did you get a quote for the Honda Accord

I got attached one. Thay gave me an old print since I was in a hurry. But everything is accurate except for the date.

RWD · August 12, 2019

Phew those accords are loaded to the hilt. But considering Stafford is clueless about servicing and maintenance of the UK spec honda civics that have many of the similar features I'd do a bit more research. I have always found colonial to be a better agent and easier to work with.

mcs627 · August 12, 2019

ICE vehicle maintenance is straightforward. Fluids, filters and belts if applicable. The Premio is solid but outdated. I'm sure lots of folk who were planning on Premios will buy Accords. It's not not a hybrid too hence no battery headaches. Do you have a young and growing family ? In a few years you might wish you bought the accord over the Mazda. I bought a Prius in 2011 from a grey importer who went out of business even before the 2 year so called warranty expired and nobody including myself initially knew how to maintain it. Read up online manuals and watched videos and actually even had to tell service guys which screw to unbolt to change transmission fluid. Now 235K on it. I'm sure there will be a learning curve but with the agents warranty backing you I think the accord might be worth a bit more thought. Mazda 3 is a pretty basic econbox with style whereas an Accord is Honda's response to the Camry and with some imagination the E Class and 5 series. The current duty structure plus the permit makes the new Turbo 1.5 L a steal for 12.6 M less 3.6 Million permit concession. I'm sure the 12.6 million vehicle has anadditional markup which may not be applicable to you. Just my two cents worth.

Edited August 12, 2019 by mcs627

kush · August 12, 2019

1 hour ago, RWD said:

Phew those accords are loaded to the hilt. But considering Stafford is clueless about servicing and maintenance of the UK spec honda civics that have many of the similar features I'd do a bit more research. I have always found colonial to be a better agent and easier to work with.

I don't see any features which is not standard in a Wagon R these days apart from dual zone for the climate and leather electric seats.

Any way it is not a grey import intended for some other market they should be able to give proper support as always.

iRage · August 12, 2019

3 hours ago, mcs627 said:

ICE vehicle maintenance is straightforward. Fluids, filters and belts if applicable. The Premio is solid but outdated. I'm sure lots of folk who were planning on Premios will buy Accords. It's not not a hybrid too hence no battery headaches. Do you have a young and growing family ? In a few years you might wish you bought the accord over the Mazda. I bought a Prius in 2011 from a grey importer who went out of business even before the 2 year so called warranty expired and nobody including myself initially knew how to maintain it. Read up online manuals and watched videos and actually even had to tell service guys which screw to unbolt to change transmission fluid. Now 235K on it. I'm sure there will be a learning curve but with the agents warranty backing you I think the accord might be worth a bit more thought. Mazda 3 is a pretty basic econbox with style whereas an Accord is Honda's response to the Camry and with some imagination the E Class and 5 series. The current duty structure plus the permit makes the new Turbo 1.5 L a steal for 12.6 M less 3.6 Million permit concession. I'm sure the 12.6 million vehicle has anadditional markup which may not be applicable to you. Just my two cents worth.

You obviously have not checked out the new Mazda 3 in person or online. The Mazda 3 is far far from being an econobox in terms of refinement and build quality. In fact it is far better than both the Corolla and the Civic and has a luxurious touch that even the accord and Camry does not have. The 3, Civic and Corolla started off as econoboxes but that was 20 years ago. he new Corolla is a replacement to the Allion/Premio. The Civic has grown to be as large as the old Accord and the Camry is as large as the old Crown. So...they have all grown.

Granted...the variant offered by Colonial seems to be rather old..but the nice interior and stuff will probably be there.

abiman · August 13, 2019

7 hours ago, iRage said:

You obviously have not checked out the new Mazda 3 in person or online. The Mazda 3 is far far from being an econobox in terms of refinement and build quality. In fact it is far better than both the Corolla and the Civic and has a luxurious touch that even the accord and Camry does not have. The 3, Civic and Corolla started off as econoboxes but that was 20 years ago. he new Corolla is a replacement to the Allion/Premio. The Civic has grown to be as large as the old Accord and the Camry is as large as the old Crown. So...they have all grown.

Granted...the variant offered by Colonial seems to be rather old..but the nice interior and stuff will probably be there.

Mazda 3 sedan from colonial is 1.5l and says it is from Japan. But japan mazda site has only hatch backs and no 1.5l too. So agent getting special mazda 3 sedan from japan? The details given to me by agent says county of origin as japan.

Also the 3 has 165mm ground clearance, which seems to be excellent. My current ce110 has only about 150mm and every now and then It tastes ground. What is not sure for me is whether it actually has 150mm as i changed shock absorbers about 7 years ago. It is tempting to forget about resale value and go for accord to experience that once in life, but now noticed ground clearance is only about 140mm and car is much wider too.

Edited August 13, 2019 by abiman

kush · August 13, 2019

With that wheel base and 140mm it will kiss the ground more often. It will be a night mare to drive, issue with most cars with long wheel bases. Remember BMW 5 series (F10) had the same issue.

The price fro the permit is very high for the accord. For same money you could get a C-class or a Audi A5 which has more features.

abiman · August 13, 2019

8 minutes ago, kush said:

With that wheel base and 140mm it will kiss the ground more often. It will be a night mare to drive, issue with most cars with long wheel bases. Remember BMW 5 series (F10) had the same issue.

The price fro the permit is very high for the accord. For same money you could get a C-class or a Audi A5 which has more features.

Audi A5 is 13.8M upwards from agent. Didnt checked it yet by visiting showroom. But will do soon enough. I looked at CLA from a car sale, not agent and it was 9M for permit too.

Edited August 13, 2019 by abiman

iRage · August 13, 2019

3 hours ago, abiman said:

Mazda 3 sedan from colonial is 1.5l and says it is from Japan. But japan mazda site has only hatch backs and no 1.5l too. So agent getting special mazda 3 sedan from japan? The details given to me by agent says county of origin as japan.

Also the 3 has 165mm ground clearance, which seems to be excellent. My current ce110 has only about 150mm and every now and then It tastes ground. What is not sure for me is whether it actually has 150mm as i changed shock absorbers about 7 years ago. It is tempting to forget about resale value and go for accord to experience that once in life, but now noticed ground clearance is only about 140mm and car is much wider too.

When a manufacturer manufactures/assembles a certain vehicle in a particular country; it does not mean the manufacturer will/has to sell that vehicle in the market that is manufacturers it in i.e. If Mazda assembles the 1.5L in Japan, that does not mean they will necessarily sell it there. It could be that the 3 is assembled in Japan for export markets as well.

But yes....so far the manufacturer of Mazda 3 seems to be only in Japan for now。 Typically what happens is with time other production facilities re-tool themselves to manufacture it too....

RWD · August 13, 2019

4 hours ago, abiman said:

Mazda 3 sedan from colonial is 1.5l and says it is from Japan. But japan mazda site has only hatch backs and no 1.5l too. So agent getting special mazda 3 sedan from japan? The details given to me by agent says county of origin as japan.

Also the 3 has 165mm ground clearance, which seems to be excellent. My current ce110 has only about 150mm and every now and then It tastes ground. What is not sure for me is whether it actually has 150mm as i changed shock absorbers about 7 years ago. It is tempting to forget about resale value and go for accord to experience that once in life, but now noticed ground clearance is only about 140mm and car is much wider too.

Well at the end of the day Mazda3 and Honda Accord are 2 different classes of cars. Despite the fact that these cars are all growing bigger than the previous generations the Mazda3 is a compact and Accord is a large family saloon. Test drive them both and see what suits your requirements. I love the look of the new 3 and as usual it punches well above its weight, but the back seat has always been cramped. Not the best if you have a growing family. The 1.5 skyactiv is offered in a few other Asian Markets as well- like Malaysia- and some reviewers say it feels slow- won't be an issue in our traffic I guess. Agreed that the ground clearance of the Mazda3 makes it better suited for our crappy roads but 140mm on the Accord is about the same as the new Civic and at 8000 kms I have never once scraped the ground- touchwood. Of course I am careful how I drive but the Accord has loads of space and has all the toys and should prove as reliable in the long run since you are buying brand new.