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First Service (CRV) - Mineral or Synthetic Oil


monty
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Hi Guys,

I'm planning to to take my ride (CRV-2019, Australian version VTi-L) for its first (1,000KM) service at Staf##rd. The owners manual says either mineral or synthetic of 0w-20 is fine. But I've heard that it's good to go with mineral instead of synthetic for the first service. I don't want to entirely depend on what the agent says/promotes :). Appreciate if fellow CRV owners and experts could share feedback about this + your experience at the agent (Boralesgamuwa).

Cheers!

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Nowadays most cars don't need an elaborate break in and the factory oil is good enough for at least 5k km. The 1k service is usually just an inspection to see everything is working fine and to reassure customers. As for the oil, anything mentioned in the manual should be okay. Synthetic oils are usually better.

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0w-20 might be too thin, and not suiting SL temperatures. The most practical would be a 5w-30 Synthetic as its turbo as well

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18 minutes ago, tiv said:

0w-20 might be too thin, and not suiting SL temperatures. The most practical would be a 5w-30 Synthetic as its turbo as well

Yes, I too thought about that tiv. But I'm not sure what the agent will use as per their schedule (need to check)...probably they will go with what the manual says I suppose. In that case, it's better to take the Oil by myself - 5w-30 Synthetic. This is what I wasn't sure about. Thanks mate.

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6 hours ago, tiv said:

0w-20 might be too thin, and not suiting SL temperatures. The most practical would be a 5w-30 Synthetic as its turbo as well

image.png.ce481b58c046fcda898045964dcd3392.png

International version of maintenance manual says 0W-20, so why its not suitable for SL. Are they not selling this vehicle for tropical countries?

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28 minutes ago, gayanath said:

image.png.ce481b58c046fcda898045964dcd3392.png

International version of maintenance manual says 0W-20, so why its not suitable for SL. Are they not selling this vehicle for tropical countries?

This is why

cp5NG2T.jpg

Since the CR-V can use oils upto 10W30 according to the manufacturer, it is safely assumed that using a thicker oil (Eg: 5W30) is beneficial in a Sri Lankan context.

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For most down sized turbo engines the manufacturers recommend 0W-20 oil. It's the same for the CHR as well. As it's the only grade recommended I think it's best to stick to that. For some cars and older cars the the owners manual used to suggest different grades depending on ambient temperature but not for the new CHR or CRV.

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9 minutes ago, CNX said:

 As it's the only grade recommended I think it's best to stick to that. For some cars and older cars the the owners manual used to suggest different grades depending on ambient temperature but not for the new CHR or CRV.

Not really. You can use upto 10W30.

https://www.honda.co.jp/ownersmanual/webom/jpn/crv/2019/details/136162090-13233.html

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1 hour ago, Hyaenidae said:

This is why

cp5NG2T.jpg

Since the CR-V can use oils upto 10W30 according to the manufacturer, it is safely assumed that using a thicker oil (Eg: 5W30) is beneficial in a Sri Lankan context.

Thank you 

Actually 10w-30 is the most ideal here but finding that spec in synthetic form costs a salary. So 5w-30 is available in synthetic from from most good brands, so it's the most sensible 

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2 hours ago, gayanath said:

image.png.ce481b58c046fcda898045964dcd3392.png

International version of maintenance manual says 0W-20, so why its not suitable for SL. Are they not selling this vehicle for tropical countries?

Mate on the graph u put, it shows the bottom end at minus 20c

Top end at 40c

Which figure are we most likely to reach? 

Being a turbo engine the engine also tends to heat up further, so for our climate we can use upto 10w-30, wouldn't you like to have the protection in the spectrum where we use our cars rather than some spec in another country. This Is common to every car, petrol or diesel. 

Big engine or small.

The reason why they impose a lower weight oil for smaller engines is they affect fuel economy, the 0w-20 etc thinner oils improve fuel economy rather than the usual ones. 

Theres no point in paying abysmal prices for oils that arent specced for our country. Also to add just pop the dipstick and check the viscosity of a 0w20 oil in the Colombo heat, it's almost water. But it's your car so 0w20 or gold juice it's your wish.

Newer downsized engines are designed for a rather short yet efficient lifespan which again is why I believe they go hard on the thinner oils. 

The other thing is idle stop, start stop or whatever you call that ridiculous thing that makes the car stop on idling, thinner oils help to jet the oil back and cling more. With all this it's still overkill to go with 0w20 on a warm country like ours. 

They do make the car, but we should be sensible enough to maintain it. As far as I know stafford uses 5w30 on the crv.

Toyota lanka imposes the 10w30 on all their small engines, including the 660cc daihatsu ones. 

A*W prefers Castrol 5w30 synthetic on theirs. 

However Unit#d Mot#rs prefers 0w20 Valvoline on theirs and its dead cheap.

1 hour ago, Hyaenidae said:

This is why

cp5NG2T.jpg

Since the CR-V can use oils upto 10W30 according to the manufacturer, it is safely assumed that using a thicker oil (Eg: 5W30) is beneficial in a Sri Lankan context.

 

Edited by tiv
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hi guys

 Used 0w20 mobil one for the first service.  I then felt the viscosity is to low for Sri Lanka's climate. So I moved to 0w30 mobil one  from my second service. I follow the service schedule on the computer. Now after four oil changes 19000 km on the clock there is no issues so far. By the way I buy the oil from independent  seller and  the filter from Stafford and get it changed at my local service centre while im watching. I dont believe paying a premium at the agent also not knowing what they have done and not done. Cal me paranoid , but this way I exactly know what's in the engine. 

 

 

 

Edited by del1972
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9 hours ago, del1972 said:

hi guys

 Used 0w20 mobil one for the first service.  I then felt the viscosity is to low for Sri Lanka's climate. So I moved to 0w30 mobil one  from my second service. I follow the service schedule on the computer. Now after four oil changes 19000 km on the clock there is no issues so far. By the way I buy the oil from independent  seller and  the filter from Stafford and get it changed at my local service centre while im watching. I dont believe paying a premium at the agent also not knowing what they have done and not done. Cal me paranoid , but this way I exactly know what's in the engine. 

At which intervals you replaced oil (based on your on-board system)? Four oil changes for 19,000 km?

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9 minutes ago, CNX said:

Toyota Lanka uses 0w-20 for the CHR

 

What happend was,

Before introducing 0W20, TL oil delivery system has only 10W30 (or 5W30 I cant remember exactly). So they marketed it for all engines saying 0W20 is not good for SL climates. (Caned 0W20 provided upon customer request) 

Now they have 0W20 pipe lines I believe. So now marketing for 0W20 saying its the best suitable. 

Ha... ha.... Finally, its all for profit & profit & profit. Nothing technical......  

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21 minutes ago, gayanath said:

What happend was,

Before introducing 0W20, TL oil delivery system has only 10W30 (or 5W30 I cant remember exactly). So they marketed it for all engines saying 0W20 is not good for SL climates. (Caned 0W20 provided upon customer request) 

Now they have 0W20 pipe lines I believe. So now marketing for 0W20 saying its the best suitable. 

Ha... ha.... Finally, its all for profit & profit & profit. Nothing technical......  

No they had 0w20 semi synthetic blend in the early 2010s, for the early pruises I think.

the black can, I had one lying around as well. 

They do bring the new white can, with 0w20 synthetic. What they recommend is what I mentioned. Of course the consumer has the choice and the risk. 

Besides, recommendations aside, if one understands the concept of multi grade oils and relation to ambient temperature and operating temperatures we wouldn't be having this discussion here.

Some genuises have been advising to use 0w16 for the vezel, I'm not sure what the specced oil was but the math suggests its 5w30, several cars belonging to a company fleet underwent engine overhauls at a popular hybrid specialist due to premature bearing failure and worn piston rings. I know the owner of the fleet who is a big time cheap skate used a cheap variant of oil commonly available in the market. Paid almost 1 mil for the overhauls, 3 vezels engine opened and one yaris for sludge formation. 10000km oil changes.

Wouldn't happen with the correct oil. Even if it was mineral oil. 

We have palath sabah pajeros running 20000km per change on DS40 since 1989,

Early 90s they ran monograde oils and even then now 

nearing 400,000km and bore still standard, big end untouched, engine not seen daylight other than the oil drain nut being re threaded occasionally. 

Edited by tiv
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The old one, the blend

s-l640.jpg.212a8f9537685c829c06223008d5e631.jpg

 

The new one, synthetic

toyota_kya0w20_img.thumb.jpg.07bd003621f7fbe23fa9c9356b4acb4b.jpg

 

And this is how multi grade oils cover your car based on temperatures.

Do ponder as how small the coverage is for SAE20. The whole time span you run the oil, it's off the viscosity rating, unless you park it in a refrigerator here.

Viscosity-Chart-PNG-.png.198b1a7981c9a8cba0fa120bba15cc59.png

Edited by tiv
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Please take a look at the variation in viscosity 

I've seen one of these a long time ago, I'm not sure of the room temperature here but note the gap between SAE 20 and SAE 30, 

And between the winter grades 0 and 5

 

And this is where that golden "0" winter weight makes a difference 

Apologies for the long sequential replies but the point of this forum and this discussion should be to educate a user, not to endorse the herd mentality followed by car salesman, noobs at service stations and retailers and the typical sri lankan buyers.

Edited by tiv
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21 minutes ago, tiv said:

And this is how multi grade oils cover your car based on temperatures.

Do ponder as how small the coverage is for SAE20. The whole time span you run the oil, it's off the viscosity rating, unless you park it in a refrigerator here.

Viscosity-Chart-PNG-.png.198b1a7981c9a8cba0fa120bba15cc59.png

OW20 is not included here. Its only 20W. 

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1 hour ago, CNX said:

Toyota Lanka uses 0w-20 for the CHR

IMG_20200124_074542.jpg

Even the C-HR can take upto 10W30 engine oil.

AymmbB0.jpg

 

InWolNd.jpg

 

And look what the manufacturer says:

"The 20 in 0W-20 indicates the viscosity characteristic of the oil when the oil is at high temperature. An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions."

When the engine runs hotter, thicker oil provides more protection according to the manufacturer.

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This chart make more sense in technically. 

4kCoW4x.png

 

Lets assume, in SL context,

Our engines runs 30 C to 90 C, then

0W20 - 50 cSt to 9 cSt (lets say by graph)

5W30 - 90 cSt to 14 cSt (lets say by graph)

0W40 - 110 cSt to 16 cSt (lets say by graph)

So, there is a point that, continuous running hot engines will be bit benefited by XXW40 while engines with start stop running with less average temperature (lets say average temperature 75 C because of stops and running) will be benefited by XXW20. (The average effect on the engine is more or less same with hot engine using XXW40)

 

Edited by gayanath
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44 minutes ago, gayanath said:

This chart make more sense in technically. 

4kCoW4x.png

 

Lets assume, in SL context,

Our engines runs 30 C to 90 C, then

0W20 - 50 cSt to 9 cSt (lets say by graph)

5W30 - 90 cSt to 14 cSt (lets say by graph)

0W40 - 110 cSt to 16 cSt (lets say by graph)

So, there is a point that, continuous running hot engines will be bit benefited by XXW40 while engines with start stop running with less average temperature (lets say average temperature 75 C because of stops and running) will be benefited by XXW20. (The average effect on the engine is more or less same with hot engine using XXW40)

 

I used a chart to imply the spectrum of the SAE 20 from the 0w-20 spectrum. Which I have mentioned. 

your graph annihilates your own point?

The blue curve barely makes it up in thickness in our temperature range. 

Engine runs in ?
30-90c


1. I’d love to see an engine that runs on a lesser temperature than our body. 30c maybe for a few seconds.


So next a turbocharged petrol engine runs at a max of 90c? Where? Again basics please

then again if so why don’t we invent melamine turbos then, cheap and lightweight.

2. And your argument, this is based on the fact that u think an engine instantly cools down or start to cool when you turn it off? Again Think it through #basics. 
 

whatever the story is the bottom line is this, there is more than enough information on this very page, to suggest that for all practical and theoretical intents and purposes, the oil in question 0w20, the spectrum is not the most beneficial in our country. One can even say it’s not suitable.

For future viewers, someday a mechanic might show you these

E0B526D4-63A5-4B1B-A31B-1B1EE4685074.jpeg.ffa4af9723c51e4255c3509de22bb47f.jpeg

 

and the new ones look like these

 

36505830-E9B7-4C31-A24F-2796397EC93D.jpeg.43da1385ffbaa2f1945c25f276ebef50.jpeg

 

before you tell the mechanic to wrap it up and sell the car, or before you start building. Realize that 1 of many causes would be the wrong type of oil Period.

Edited by tiv
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15 minutes ago, tiv said:

I used a chart to imply the spectrum of the SAE 20 from the 0w-20 spectrum. Which I have mentioned.

No, its not. That chart having nothing related to SAE 20. Its the spectrum of SAE 20W (which is winter part only). (btw, sorry I couldn't  watch youtube videos please)

15 minutes ago, tiv said:

1. I’d love to see an engine that runs on a lesser temperature than our body. 30c maybe for a few seconds.

Lets say few seconds but this is the point where ambient temperature matters for the most. Lesser temperature or sub 0 countries starts it from lesser or sub 0 so they needs multi-grade but we do not need (I mean theoretically we do not need multi-grade, but practically no harm using multi-grade with some additional benefits)

15 minutes ago, tiv said:

So next a turbocharged petrol engine runs at a max of 90c? Where? Again basics please

then again if so why don’t we invent melamine turbos then, cheap and lightweight.

Assume any temperature you wish and put it to the chart and see. 

15 minutes ago, tiv said:

2. And your argument, this is based on the fact that u think an engine instantly cools down or start to cool when you turn it off? Again Think it through #basics. 
 

No. that's why average is not taken as (30 + 90)/2 = 60. And this is not idle stops or hybrids. I mean 10 min drive and park for 1 hr. Again 25 min drive and park for 30 min or 1.5 hrs, and more time in engine idling, like that. So its the average effect on engine in life cycle for vehicles not using continuous high speed driving with heavy loads.

Values are just indicatives only for understanding. So even you may apply as any value combinations for continuous running vs intermittent running. Cool............

 

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Uhh...you guys do realize that it is not just the ambient temperature but also the engine temperature as well right ? Not just ambient temperature ? the oil needs to absorb and help in dissipating heat  (thus the need for oil coolers in race cars anyway)

The engine's heat is effected by the ambient temperature, the length/duration the engine has been running and the cooling system's cooling efficiency. So the ambient temperature actually does not matter if the other factors have a strong effect in increasing the engine temperature.

Now think about this....you are sitting in Colombo traffic for 1 hour...the cooling system is not effective because there simply is no air flow (though the engine)....so the engine gets a lot hotter than the averages that those charts indicate no matter what the ambient temperature is. Even if it is raining it will get pretty hot in the right conditions, it is just that it might get a bit longer to get there than when it is not raining. Which is the reason why manuals say for harsh usage you should consider using heavier oils or follow the agents recommendation.  The same applies when you run for long distance for long periods of time non-stop. In the US, I had a Camry which the dealer used light oils...however every time I drove from Salt Lake City to Vegas (about 410 MILES)...half way through I could hear valve knocks and a less than normal feeling in the engine. The same issue was there when I used the Mark X to travel from Colombo to Hambanthota...thus, I used to a thicker oil and the issue disappeared (for the most part). 

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