Formula 1 - 2009

[virensti]

Wow! Looks like it's gonna be a pretty interesting off-season.. Hope the teams settle down for next year.. Kobayashi's brilliant! I too wish he gets a good team..

[MasterDon]

wonder who will replce barri at brawn...kimi???....nah,doubt they can afford him...lol...

and yeah kobayashi deserves a seat next year...that guy has balls.

BTW i just finished watching the race of champions on the eurosport channel...it was held at the "bird nest" olympic stadium at beijing,some rally driver won and micheal schuemacher came in second...vettel lost out to schumi in the semi's because he crashed that buggy like thingy of his...world champ button was also present.

[Supra_Natural]

wonder who will replce barri at brawn...kimi???....nah,doubt they can afford him...lol...

and yeah kobayashi deserves a seat next year...that guy has balls.

BTW i just finished watching the race of champions on the eurosport channel...it was held at the "bird nest" olympic stadium at beijing,some rally driver won and micheal schuemacher came in second...vettel lost out to schumi in the semi's because he crashed that buggy like thingy of his...world champ button was also present.

Kimi's going to Mclaren, will be partnered with hamilton I believe. Alonso will replace him in the ferrari.

brawn's number two will be an interesting thing to watch for, will they go with someone newish yet equal to button's caliber (Eg vettel, webber) or make him a clear lead driver and get a rookie? If they go the latter route I hope they offer Kobayashi a seat. Mainly because of THIS

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80003

shame, just as they were getting their act together.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Supra_Natural

[Supra_Natural]

The contents of the link above. Must say this is quite a surprise!

Toyota pulls out of Formula 1

By Matt Beer Wednesday, November 4th 2009, 08:13 GMT

Toyota has announced that it is to pull out of Formula 1 with immediate effect.

The Japanese car company revealed its surprise decision in a news conference in Tokyo today following an earlier board meeting. It said the current economic situation had prompted its departure.

"Toyota Motor Corporation (TMC) announces it plans to withdraw from the FIA Formula 1 world championship at the end of the 2009 season," said a Toyota statement.

"TMC, which had viewed its participation in F1 as contributing to the prosperity of automotive culture, remained dedicated to competing at the pinnacle of motor sports even in the face of the abrupt economic changes that started last year.

"However, when considering TMC's motorsports actitives next year and beyond from a comprehensive mid-term viewpoint reflecting the current severe economic realities, TMC decided to withdraw from F1"

There had been doubts about Toyota's F1 future after the company reported its first ever operating loss in March, and given the departures of fellow manufacturers Honda and BMW. Toyota had also pulled its Fuji track, which hosted the 2007 and 2008 Japanese Grands Prix, from the calendar, and its customer team Williams decided to end its engine deal a year early.

But Toyota signed the new Concorde Agreement, committing it to the world championship through 2012, and team boss John Howett was adamant that the squad would be on the grid in 2010, although there were hints of a reduced budget.

The team had been pressing ahead with 2010 preparations - approaching big name drivers including Kimi Raikkonen and Robert Kubica, and talking of signing impressive stand-in Kamui Kobayashi for next year as recently as last weekend. Current drivers Jarno Trulli and Timo Glock had already been expected to move on.

"TMC also wants to express its heartfelt gratitude to all Panasonic Toyota Racing drivers to date and to all Toyota Motorsport GmbH employees who have helped make the team's achievements possible," said the statement.

"TMC intends to do its best to find a solution for those parties who will be affected by any inconvenience this decision may cause."

Toyota entered F1 in 2002, and was tipped to swiftly become a championship challenger given its huge budget and resources. But it failed to win a race and has just three pole positions, 13 podium finishes, and a best result of fourth in the 2005 constructors' standings to show for its 139 grands prix.

The departure of Toyota is set to throw the former BMW Sauber team a lifeline, as the Hinwil squad and its new owners had been relying on another team dropping out in order to claim the final spot in next season's expanded 26-car entry.

Renault is also holding an extraordinary board meeting to discuss its future plans today. Although the indications are that the French company is committed to F1, Toyota's decision to pull out could give Renault an opportunity to follow suit if it wished.

Toyota added that it would continue to use its F1 experience in "developing exciting production vehicles" and that it would remain involved in motor racing, albeit at a lower level.

"In motorsports, [Toyota] will not only race in various categories, but will also actively contribute to further development of motorsports by supporting grassroots races and planning events in which it is easy for people to participate."

From: Autosport

Edited November 5, 2009 by Supra_Natural

[Supra_Natural]

Of Course, the Italians have to try and make it all political:

Ferrari: Pull-outs not due to downturn

By Matt Beer Wednesday, November 4th 2009, 17:30 GMT

Ferrari has suggested that the departure of Toyota, BMW and Honda from Formula 1 in the past year is due to the actions of the sport's bosses rather than the economic downturn.

Toyota announced its decision to pull out of the world championship earlier today, citing the "current severe economic realities" as the reason for its abrupt exit.

But an item published on Ferrari's official website argued that Toyota and its fellow car makers' decisions had been prompted by a 'war on manufacturers' in F1.

"In reality the steady trickle of desertion is more the result of a war against the big car manufacturers by those who managed the sport, than the effects of the economical that affected Formula 1 over the last years," it read.

The article reiterated Ferrari's belief that the independent teams that have been granted 2010 entries are not of the calibre of the manufacturer outfits.

"Formula 1 continues losing important parts: over the last 12 months Honda, BMW, Bridgestone and this morning Toyota announced their retirements. In exchange, if one could call it that, Manor, Lotus [because of the team of Colin Chapman, Jim Clark and Ayrton Senna, to name a few, there is hardly more than the name], USF1 and Campos Meta arrived.

"You might say 'same-same', because it is enough if there are participants. But that's not entirely true and then we've got to see if next year we'll be really as many in Bahrain for the first starting grid of the 2010 season and how many will make it to the end of the season."

The piece also made a cryptic comparison between F1's situation and an Agatha Christie mystery novel, and urged the sport to take action against those responsible for the pull-outs.

"It seems like a parody of Agatha Christie's 'Ten Little Indians', published in England for the first time in the year 1939, but reality is much more serious.

"In Christie's detective novel the guilty person is only discovered when everybody else is dead, one after the other. Do we want to wait until this happens or should we write Formula 1's book with a different closing chapter?"

Ferrari's statement comes on a day when Renault - one of only three manufacturers left in F1 alongside Ferrari and Mercedes - is also evaluating its F1 future. The company is discussing its plans at an extraordinary meeting.

Source: Autosport

[Supra_Natural]

Oh, and The french are surrendering again (possibly):

Renault prepares to quit F1

Renault is holding an extraordinary board meeting today to discuss its future plans in Formula One.

Toyota pulled out of the sport earlier today and although Renault appears to be more committed than the Japanese squad, Toyota’s decision could allow Renault an easy escape route should it wish.

Renault’s reputation was tarnished earlier in the year after it admitted fixing the result of 2008’s Singapore grand prix. Driver Nelson Piquet agreed with engineer Pat Symonds and team principal Flavio Briatore that he would deliberately crash, and the resulting circumstances allowed his team mate Fernando Alonso to take victory.

It lost title sponsor ING as a result of the scandal, but watch maker TW Steel has been lined up as a replacement next year.

The firm has also signed Robert Kubica as its lead driver for next year to replace Fernando Alonso, who is moving to Ferrari.

Renault is expected to clarify its position in F1 later today.

Source: Autocar.co.uk

[Supra_Natural]

Toyota's Press Release:

PRESS RELEASE:

Toyota to Withdraw from F1

Tokyo - TOYOTA MOTOR CORPORATION (TMC) announces it plans to withdraw from the FIA Formula One World Championship (F1) at the end of the 2009 season.

TMC, which had viewed its participation in F1 as contributing to the prosperity of automotive culture, remained dedicated to competing at the pinnacle of motor sports, even in the face of the abrupt economic changes that started last year. However, when considering TMC's motor-sports activities next year and beyond from a comprehensive midterm viewpoint reflecting the current severe economic realities, TMC decided to withdraw from F1.

TMC leaves F1 having compiled 13 podium and 87 point finishes over eight challenging seasons since 2002 with Panasonic Toyota Racing, a full-constructor team. It views its time in F1 - in which teams put forth their best efforts to fiercely compete at racing's highest level - as an irreplaceable experience that provided an opportunity to develop both human resources and its R&D operations. TMC expresses its deepest appreciation to its F1 fans and others for their warm support.

TMC also wants to express its heartfelt gratitude to all Panasonic Toyota Racing drivers to date and to all Toyota Motorsport GmbH employees who have helped make the team's achievements possible. TMC intends to do its best to find a solution for those parties who will be affected by any inconvenience this decision may cause.

Drawing on its experience in F1 and other motor sports, TMC intends to move forward in developing exciting production vehicles, such as the Lexus "LFA" supercar and compact rear-wheel-drive sports cars. In motor sports, it will not only race in various categories, but will also actively contribute to further development of motor sports by supporting grassroots races and planning events in which it is easy for people to participate.

[Supra_Natural]

And finally, Akiro Toyada's Address at the press conference they called

Press Conference Address: November 4, 2009

Toyota's Withdrawal from Formula One Competition

Akio Toyoda

President

Toyota Motor Corporation

Thank you for taking the time to join us today for this press conference.

We have convened this conference to make an important announcement about Toyota's participation in Formula One competition.

Toyota has engaged in F1 racing for eight seasons, starting in two thousand two. But we will conclude our participation in F1 competition with this season.

Our board of directors reached that decision after debating the issue thoroughly. I want to express my heartfelt appreciation to everyone who has supported our F1 program over the past eight years.

That includes the fans who cheered for our team, the companies that sponsored our racing program, the journalists who covered our activities, and the drivers and all the other team members, who shared the excitement of automobiles with people worldwide through F1 racing.

I attended the Japanese Grand Prix last month at the Suzuka Circuit. The passion of the fans was infectious. The team play displayed by our F1 team, Panasonic Toyota Racing, was incredibly impressive, and our driver's performance was genuinely stunning.

When I think of the fans, emotions well up inside me. All I can hope is that people will understand that this painful decision was unavoidable in view of the present business environment and the medium- and long-range outlook. Our fans have been calling on us to really go at it next year. And I offer my sincere apologies that we will be unable to fulfil their expectations.

The Toyota F1 team has competed in one hundred forty F1 races over the past eight years. It has tackled each race with intensity and has honed its competitiveness continuously.

I salute the Toyota team for performing impressively in head-to-head competition with the greatest names in motor sports. And I thank the members of our team for sharing with us their passion and their vision.

I have been calling for product-focused management since I became president at Toyota this June. I have called for Toyota to concentrate on serving customers one at a time with flavorful vehicles that make them happy.

That priority mandates a fundamental shift in resource allocation. A sad result of that shift is that we have insufficient resources to maintain a viable commitment to F1 racing.

Economic and market conditions remain extremely trying. But adversity only heightens the importance of rethinking our proper legacy for the next generation.

A commitment to contributing to society through the manufacture of automobiles has steered all activity at Toyota since the company's beginning. Today, we are undertaking several initiatives to promote the development of automotive culture on a new and higher plane.

Motor sports remain an important means of personalizing the automobile in the eyes of customers. Motor sports also remain an important means of cultivating human resources and our R&D operations.

We will rethink our motor-sports activities with an eye to maximizing those benefits while addressing economic realities. And we will take what we learn on the racetrack and put it to work in ever-better vehicles that are aimed at meeting the highest of expectations.

Thank you.

[Pericles]

Oh, and The french are surrendering again (possibly):

Renault prepares to quit F1

Source: Autocar.co.uk

Not surprising. Ol' Carlos was never a fan, and he said they would fund it only so long as the team was doing well and providing marketing and visibility for the parent company. Something to that effect.

[MasterDon]

Mercedes takes over Brawn F1 team

By Andrew Benson

Story from BBC SPORT:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi...one/8362295.stm

Published: 2009/11/16 14:21:55 GMT

© BBC MMIX

German car giant Mercedes has bought the Brawn Formula 1 team in a move that is likely to see Jenson Button join McLaren as Lewis Hamilton's team-mate.

Mercedes will buy 75% of Brawn in partnership with an Abu Dhabi investment company but will continue as McLaren's engine partner until 2015.

Brawn, who won both world titles in their debut season in 2009, will be rebranded as Mercedes Grand Prix.

Nico Rosberg will be their lead driver, with Nick Heidfeld his likely partner.

Fellow German Timo Glock, who drove for Toyota last season, is also a possibility.

The team has not yet confirmed Rosberg, who drove for Williams in 2009, but he is widely known throughout F1 to have already signed for the Mercedes team.

We've had discussions with Jenson over what we think is a sensible salary and this deal is not going to change anything in that respect

Brawn chief executive Nick Fry

Mercedes motorsport vice-president Norbert Haug indicated that talks with Button were ongoing but had already revealed the team is in negotiations with Heidfeld.

"We are talking (with Button) and that's why we cannot announce the driver line-up," said Haug on Monday. "We have to accept that speculation takes place, but that's the name of the game."

But he added: "This will be an international team - Mercedes-Benz is a global player.

"We definitely do not want to have a pure German team. It's an international team and we want to have the best drivers in the car."

Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche, whose company owns Mercedes, echoed Haug's thoughts.

"What we would like to see is the best drivers in the two seats," he said. "We certainly would not be opposed if one of them was German but that is not a prerequisite."

Button, who won the drivers' title this year, has been trying to secure a pay-rise from his £3.5m salary but it seems Mercedes is not interested in granting his wish.

The 29-year-old Englishman visited McLaren with manager Richard Goddard on Friday, with Button now expected to join the Woking-based team for a salary around double what Brawn were offering.

Button's decision is understood not to be solely about money - sources say he considers McLaren might have a more competitive car than Brawn in 2010.

"We've had discussions with Jenson over what we think is a sensible salary and this deal is not going to change anything in that respect," Brawn chief executive Nick Fry told BBC Radio 5 live.

"I hope Jenson will be with us as we've been together for a good few years, but F1 is not divorced from the rest of the world.

"The reason we've survived as a team is that we have operated in our means."

Finn Kimi Raikkonen, who has been forced to leave Ferrari to make way for Fernando Alonso, remains an outside possibility for the seat alongside 2008 world champion Hamilton.

Despite the takeover, both Haug and Zetsche indicated that there were unlikely to be wholesale changes, with Ross Brawn remaining as team principal.

They also said Brawn would have a key role to play in deciding the driver line-up for 2010 and beyond.

"Ross Brawn is the boss of the team and it would not be smart of us to dictate to him anything like a driver decision," said Zetsche.

Brawn and Fry will retain a 24.9% shareholding in the team. The remaining 75.1% will be split between Mercedes, which will own 45.1% and Abu Dhabi company Aabar Investments, which will own 30%.

Brawn said: "Brawn GP has been through an incredible journey over the last 12 months.

"From fighting for our survival to forging a strong relationship with Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines, winning both the constructors' and drivers' world championships, and now accepting Daimler and Aabar's offer to buy our team, which will secure its future."

As part of a deal that will see the McLaren Group buy back Mercedes's 40% shareholding by 2011, the German company will continue to supply free engines and sponsorship to the team for at least the next six years.

It's a win-win situation, both for McLaren and Daimler

Ron Dennis McLaren boss

The team's official name will remain Vodafone McLaren Mercedes.

McLaren chairman Ron Dennis described the deal as "a win-win situation, both for McLaren and Daimler".

McLaren and Mercedes said one of the reasons for them to split was because of McLaren's road-car building ambitions.

McLaren is launching a high-performance sports car called the MP4-12C in 2011.

Dennis said: "I've often stated that it's my belief that, in order to survive and thrive in 21st Century Formula 1, a team must become much more than merely a team.

"That being the case, in order to develop and sustain the revenue streams required to compete and win grands prix and world championships, companies that run Formula 1 teams must broaden the scope of their commercial activities.

"In the MP4-12C, which will be introduced to market in 2011, we have a car that has inherited the genes of the iconic McLaren F1 of 1994 and has already been the subject of much global media acclaim."

Edited November 16, 2009 by MasterDon

[Supra_Natural]

Mercedes takes over Brawn F1 team

By Andrew Benson

Story from BBC SPORT:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi...one/8362295.stm

Published: 2009/11/16 14:21:55 GMT

© BBC MMIX

German car giant Mercedes has bought the Brawn Formula 1 team in a move that is likely to see Jenson Button join McLaren as Lewis Hamilton's team-mate.

Mercedes will buy 75% of Brawn in partnership with an Abu Dhabi investment company but will continue as McLaren's engine partner until 2015.

Brawn, who won both world titles in their debut season in 2009, will be rebranded as Mercedes Grand Prix.

Nico Rosberg will be their lead driver, with Nick Heidfeld his likely partner.

Fellow German Timo Glock, who drove for Toyota last season, is also a possibility.

The team has not yet confirmed Rosberg, who drove for Williams in 2009, but he is widely known throughout F1 to have already signed for the Mercedes team.

We've had discussions with Jenson over what we think is a sensible salary and this deal is not going to change anything in that respect

Brawn chief executive Nick Fry

Mercedes motorsport vice-president Norbert Haug indicated that talks with Button were ongoing but had already revealed the team is in negotiations with Heidfeld.

"We are talking (with Button) and that's why we cannot announce the driver line-up," said Haug on Monday. "We have to accept that speculation takes place, but that's the name of the game."

But he added: "This will be an international team - Mercedes-Benz is a global player.

"We definitely do not want to have a pure German team. It's an international team and we want to have the best drivers in the car."

Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche, whose company owns Mercedes, echoed Haug's thoughts.

"What we would like to see is the best drivers in the two seats," he said. "We certainly would not be opposed if one of them was German but that is not a prerequisite."

Button, who won the drivers' title this year, has been trying to secure a pay-rise from his £3.5m salary but it seems Mercedes is not interested in granting his wish.

The 29-year-old Englishman visited McLaren with manager Richard Goddard on Friday, with Button now expected to join the Woking-based team for a salary around double what Brawn were offering.

Button's decision is understood not to be solely about money - sources say he considers McLaren might have a more competitive car than Brawn in 2010.

"We've had discussions with Jenson over what we think is a sensible salary and this deal is not going to change anything in that respect," Brawn chief executive Nick Fry told BBC Radio 5 live.

"I hope Jenson will be with us as we've been together for a good few years, but F1 is not divorced from the rest of the world.

"The reason we've survived as a team is that we have operated in our means."

Finn Kimi Raikkonen, who has been forced to leave Ferrari to make way for Fernando Alonso, remains an outside possibility for the seat alongside 2008 world champion Hamilton.

Despite the takeover, both Haug and Zetsche indicated that there were unlikely to be wholesale changes, with Ross Brawn remaining as team principal.

They also said Brawn would have a key role to play in deciding the driver line-up for 2010 and beyond.

"Ross Brawn is the boss of the team and it would not be smart of us to dictate to him anything like a driver decision," said Zetsche.

Brawn and Fry will retain a 24.9% shareholding in the team. The remaining 75.1% will be split between Mercedes, which will own 45.1% and Abu Dhabi company Aabar Investments, which will own 30%.

Brawn said: "Brawn GP has been through an incredible journey over the last 12 months.

"From fighting for our survival to forging a strong relationship with Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines, winning both the constructors' and drivers' world championships, and now accepting Daimler and Aabar's offer to buy our team, which will secure its future."

As part of a deal that will see the McLaren Group buy back Mercedes's 40% shareholding by 2011, the German company will continue to supply free engines and sponsorship to the team for at least the next six years.

It's a win-win situation, both for McLaren and Daimler

Ron Dennis McLaren boss

The team's official name will remain Vodafone McLaren Mercedes.

McLaren chairman Ron Dennis described the deal as "a win-win situation, both for McLaren and Daimler".

McLaren and Mercedes said one of the reasons for them to split was because of McLaren's road-car building ambitions.

McLaren is launching a high-performance sports car called the MP4-12C in 2011.

Dennis said: "I've often stated that it's my belief that, in order to survive and thrive in 21st Century Formula 1, a team must become much more than merely a team.

"That being the case, in order to develop and sustain the revenue streams required to compete and win grands prix and world championships, companies that run Formula 1 teams must broaden the scope of their commercial activities.

"In the MP4-12C, which will be introduced to market in 2011, we have a car that has inherited the genes of the iconic McLaren F1 of 1994 and has already been the subject of much global media acclaim."

Oh damn... that is not really great news IMO.. What i loved about brawn was it'd Independent spirit and thorough "britishness". Now they've been bought by the most damned boringly german car company of them all. Well guess I'll have to find a new team to root for then. R*D B*LL is the most likely candidate.

[Pericles]

Oh damn... that is not really great news IMO.. What i loved about brawn was it'd Independent spirit and thorough "britishness". Now they've been bought by the most damned boringly german car company of them all. Well guess I'll have to find a new team to root for then. R*D B*LL is the most likely candidate.

I heard of this on the radio this morning. Was actually expecting an update from Dev

Merc? Boring? With a history including the Silver Arrows teams?

Anyway, I was already trying being a fan of the Germans with BMW. Hope they have a better year next season

[Supra_Natural]

I heard of this on the radio this morning. Was actually expecting an update from Dev

Merc? Boring? With a history including the Silver Arrows teams?

Anyway, I was already trying being a fan of the Germans with BMW. Hope they have a better year next season

Well it wasnt quite Boring in the traditional sense that i was aiming for i guess... I mean, y'knw the whole megacorporation, teutonic efficiency thing. That kinda is the opposite of the scrappy, individualist team that brawn has been.

[Kavvz]

What i loved about brawn was it'd Independent spirit and thorough "britishness".

The balls-to-the-wire attitude of an independently owned company and their maverick approach makes them stand out certainly, but what exactly is this 'britishness' that you speak of?

Edited November 17, 2009 by Kavvz

[Supra_Natural]

The balls-to-the-wire attitude of an independently owned company and their maverick approach makes them stand out certainly, but what exactly is this 'britishness' that you speak of?

I wouldnt be able to define it if i tried machan, it's an abstract term really. Nearest explanation i can give is that if you look back to motor racing in the 60s and 70s, a lot of the small, independent and successful privateer teams came from the UK (Cooper, rob walker motorsports, lotus, etc etc). They had that whole balls to the wire independent attitude in spades! that has kinda been lacking in F1 as of late, and brawn were refreshing especially because they had it.

[Elvis_Pil]

'Britishness'= Williams F1

In other news Button is on his way to Mclaren

I wouldnt be able to define it if i tried machan, it's an abstract term really. Nearest explanation i can give is that if you look back to motor racing in the 60s and 70s, a lot of the small, independent and successful privateer teams came from the UK (Cooper, rob walker motorsports, lotus, etc etc). They had that whole balls to the wire independent attitude in spades! that has kinda been lacking in F1 as of late, and brawn were refreshing especially because they had it.

[KLM]

I wouldnt be able to define it if i tried machan, it's an abstract term really. Nearest explanation i can give is that if you look back to motor racing in the 60s and 70s, a lot of the small, independent and successful privateer teams came from the UK (Cooper, rob walker motorsports, lotus, etc etc). They had that whole balls to the wire independent attitude in spades! that has kinda been lacking in F1 as of late, and brawn were refreshing especially because they had it.

SN I couldn't agree with you less. Brawn got a factory team, with a car developed by the combined resources of 2 teams (Super Aguri AND Honda) FOC and also, about $200 mil to run the 2009 season. With the resources they had they were far from a small, independent, privateer British team. And as for these romantic old-British feelings that Brawn evoked in you, it must be said that F1 is a very international sport these days and just because the team was based in Brackley didn't mean that they were representative of the classic Brit teams like Cooper and Lotus.

However, 'scrappy' is a correct way to describe their shambolic efforts in the second half of the season. They had an edge over the rest in the early season but didn't have the resources and/or budget to keep developing the car and if Ross Brawn hadn't sold the team, they would have returned to the dog days of BAR and Honda in 2010. By selling, we now have 3 legitimate powers in F1 with R*D B*LL not far behind and the possibility that Renault up their game in the next couple of years.

[Supra_Natural]

SN I couldn't agree with you less. Brawn got a factory team, with a car developed by the combined resources of 2 teams (Super Aguri AND Honda) FOC and also, about $200 mil to run the 2009 season. With the resources they had they were far from a small, independent, privateer British team. And as for these romantic old-British feelings that Brawn evoked in you, it must be said that F1 is a very international sport these days and just because the team was based in Brackley didn't mean that they were representative of the classic Brit teams like Cooper and Lotus.

However, 'scrappy' is a correct way to describe their shambolic efforts in the second half of the season. They had an edge over the rest in the early season but didn't have the resources and/or budget to keep developing the car and if Ross Brawn hadn't sold the team, they would have returned to the dog days of BAR and Honda in 2010. By selling, we now have 3 legitimate powers in F1 with R*D B*LL not far behind and the possibility that Renault up their game in the next couple of years.

You are right of course KLM, on both counts. What I meant to get across was the fact that to me at least, brawn were closest in spirit to the successful british independent teams of yore... Inarguably the sale to mercedes will bring benefits (not least of which will be the return of the "silver arrows" hopefully), Its just that I preferred them as independent entity.

[GihanFX]

McLaren bags 2 world champions: Button, Hamilton teammates for 2010

http://f1pulse.com/news/McLaren_bags_2_wor...ws_article.aspx

[Pericles]

Sportcenter was just reporting that Kimi would concentrate on Rallying next year ....

[Pericles]

Errrr .... Ouch.

http://jalopnik.com/5407320/breaking-kimi-...ne=true&s=i

He leaves the sport after nine seasons, with occasional displays of devastating speed and a lucky world championship in 2007, when he exploited the rivalry between McLaren’s Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton and the hubris of the latter to beat both at the 2007 Brazilian Grand Prix, claiming the title which had eluded him at McLaren.

Bit below the belt. I mean, I'm not a fan of Kimi, but that seems a bit uncalled for.

[virensti]

Errrr .... Ouch.

Bit below the belt. I mean, I'm not a fan of Kimi, but that seems a bit uncalled for.

I agree bout it being below the belt.. Jus cause he won by 1 point.. Same goes for Hamilton last year then. Anyways shame to see the "iceman" leave.. would've liked to see him race on... Ah well.. Let's see how dominant or otherwise Hamilton and Button are gonna be.. Sounds a much better pairing than Alonso and Massa.

[miniace]

McLaren bags 2 world champions: Button, Hamilton teammates for 2010

http://f1pulse.com/news/McLaren_bags_2_wor...ws_article.aspx

Hmm thats an All Brit team n drivers ne?

MINIACE

[KLM]

Errrr .... Ouch.

http://jalopnik.com/5407320/breaking-kimi-...ne=true&s=i

Bit below the belt. I mean, I'm not a fan of Kimi, but that seems a bit uncalled for.

Very uncalled for, but that's the gutter British press for you. I can't wait to see them take sides and tear each other apart when Jenson and Lewis start whinging about favouritism and other shenanigans.

Kimi was one of only maybe 3 drivers to genuinely challenge Michael in his peak (the others being Mika Hakkinen and Fernando Alonso) and he even finished second twice in the world championship in the middle part of this decade - he was only denied because of the abysmal reliability of the Mercedes-Benz engines of the era. He shouldn't be considered lucky just because his rivals dropped the ball.

[crdesilva]

Sportcenter was just reporting that Kimi would concentrate on Rallying next year ....

Hamilton & Raikkonen would have been the perfect line up for McLaren in 2010. Wonder whats going on in Whitmarsh's mind. I was hoping Kimi would return to McLaren. But now its not happening