Feedback On Forum Etiquette, Standards And Courtesy

[The Don]

In a perfect world we may have a "Dear sir but I cannot with good conscious agree with your post on yada yada yada......", but this is NOT such a place.

I'm with MD on the fact that some people need to be set right. The only people we rip on (about thier very first post) are those who create a new topic just cos they are lazy to do a search. Every single other person that's bieng gang-banged didnt start that way. We didnt all rip on Sylvi with his first post. As he continually and consistently shows that he cannot stay on topic or give factually correct advice we started ripping on him. I'm sure no-one ripped on Cali's very first post. IJ too used to be a decent member at one point of time. So i dont see a need to change a system that has worked for years... The only difference is with the higher traffic AL gets it gets proportionality more dumb-asses.

The Don, Can you tell me what your solution for the following scenario is.

Someone (let's call him Saman) after years of hard work can afford to up his lifestyle and wants to buy a car with his savings of 1.5million. Yet he has no family or friends to ask for advice. Saman created an account and logs into Autolanka and asks for advice. A self claimed wise old man (let's call him Mr. Silva) tells hims that chinese vehicles would be No.1 in the world in 20 years time and therefore he should buy that. Or a Tata Nano because Mr. Silva's neighbor bought 5 of them. Saman, thinking 'hey this guy has 49 years of experience, so he cant be wrong' goes and buys a Tata Nano. Three months down the line his engine's missing, suspension has worn out, body panels are leaking, clutch is slipping and the brakes are messed up. What can Saman do? Will Mr. Silva compensate Saman with even just a fraction of Mr. Silva's inherited wealth? No, Mr. Silva says "hey, I just said it, not my fault if Saman did it because I told him to"...

So my question is, What credibility does AL have? Are you going to filter through the crap Sylvi Silva types and polite correct him? I haven't seen it done so far.

I recommended this before, but it went un-addressed. We know the people who get bitch-slapped all the time for their posts. And all you moderators know who i'm talking about.. So now that we have extra hands at work, why cant we put these people's posts on moderator-approved? Frankly its not like someone's gonna die because a google copy-paste result was delayed a few hours, or a rambling post on who owned what plot of land in 1950 wasnt published immediately.

Watchman this is just my opinion, whoever wants to spend their hard earned 1.5 million based on few posts by a bunch of strangers in a forum who they've never met, deserves what they get. As the old saying goes

"kiyanna kesei keewath asanna sihi budhdhiyen yuthuwa asiya uthui"

I think there is already an explicit disclaimer that advice given in the forum is done so without any warranty.

Also its up to the individual to decide which advice they take. More often than not people have stepped in and offered alternate advice to the type you just mentioned.

I don't think its practical to go and individually approve and disapprove every post. That prevents you from actually having a conversation and disturbs the flow of a forum. To be honest this is my professional opinion from when I used to work for a popular news paper group over here.

And as Peri said we don't really want to be the Stassi and dictate what people can and cannot say.

ideally there should be an element of self regulation ...........

People have different ways of putting things across. If that annoys people, well life is a bit like that. Compromises need to be made. Also correctness and in correctness of advice is a bit of a grey area, because at times it depends on perspective, and on others it is given in good faith and turns out to be incorrect.

That is why this is a forum not a review site. It is a discussion. If somebody wants professional advice they need to go see and pay a professional!

As for Sylvi he has promised to behave. I hope you're taking note Sylvi because quite frankly I think we're adult enough to take the hint compromise and adapt to fit with the group.

[The Don]

'The Don'

Moderator,

Thank you for posting above (code of practice) it is a very good step you have taken to stop unwanted posts (abusing) by some members to other members.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Sylvi, you must now agree, that in line with what we have decided that

1. You will not try to provide an answer to every question/ problem if you are not 100% sure of the solution. There is no shame of not knowing.

2. You will stop trying to give history lessons to members every time we post. There might be a generation gap issue here but frankly most members seem to find it annoying.

3. You will stick to the topic!

4. While it is wrong for other members to verbally abuse you, you will refrain from verbally abusing any member in any way shape or form

This way you will get along with everybody and there will be less friction. Deal (as in do you agree)?

[Crosswind]

For the problem of people giving misleading advice and damaging the reputation of AL, may I suggest the following.

At present, we have four levels of memberships - moderators, pro members, members and newbies.

Apart from the moderator group, the rest of the groups are essentially the same, with same level of privileges and these are mere titles solely based on the post count.

So my suggestion is, instead of having 'pro members', 'members' and 'newbies', let's have two groups (moderators excluded) as 'Members' and 'Trusted Members',

1. Trusted Members are members who have given factually accurate, timely and relevant information to any queries continually and their advice can be simply trusted.

2. Time and again, Trusted Members can be elected by moderators and other Trusted Members. Trusted Members can also be removed if moderators and other Trusted Members see fit. Getting elected as a Trusted Member is not related to the post count. It's on a purely democratic basis. If a member has posted only 50 posts and if the posts are of high quality, he/she can be elected as a trusted member.

3. Trusted Members do not have any extra authorities on the forum or any extra privileges. They merely carry an extra tag saying that they are Trusted Members and their advice can be trusted.

4. Any member/Trusted Member has the right to post in any topic as usual. And anyone can listen, dispute or argue with any opinion as usual. Having a 'Trusted Member' title is merely the forum's way of telling any newcomer or member that 'we feel this guy's advice can be trusted'.

Now the problems:

Some members may see this as an offensive move to sway the forum's general opinion. However, it is the Trusted Member's responsibility to be factual and objective as much as possible. For example, even if a Trusted Member personally would'nt buy a Prius, he/she should be responsible enough to acknowledge its benefits.

What do you think?

Edited September 13, 2012 by Crosswind

[NPP]

I must say, Crosswind's suggestion is pretty good.

Not essentially 'Trusted members', but should be clear to anyone seeking 'advice' that this person's has adequate credibility of giving 'advice'.

[Pericles]

I think that is why that "rep" system is there. Not that it works, since some people rep themselves up. The title can be changed at whim, and the groups are just members, mods, validating, etc. Have to check with Madz is any additional functionality can be programmed.

[Crosswind]

I think that is why that "rep" system is there. Not that it works, since some people rep themselves up. The title can be changed at whim, and the groups are just members, mods, validating, etc. Have to check with Madz is any additional functionality can be programmed.

Yes the rep system is similar to what I'm talking about. But the trouble is every tom, dick and harry can rep up posts just like you said. This also means loss of credibility.

[NPP]

I think that is why that "rep" system is there. Not that it works, since some people rep themselves up. The title can be changed at whim, and the groups are just members, mods, validating, etc. Have to check with Madz is any additional functionality can be programmed.

Yes but the rep of a member is not visible unless you visit the profile page.

Maybe this tag can replace what's above the profile 'pic' to the left of the post

[YALA]

maybe just block newbies from creating new topics...let them be active until they are upgraded to member status to open up new topics..anyone who sticks around until there post count is considered sufficient to be upgraded to member status would be around the forum for enough time to get to know how things work around here plus get answers to basic and frequent questions they might have like fuel efficiency and market price of an allion

[Crosswind]

maybe just block newbies from creating new topics...let them be active until they are upgraded to member status to open up new topics..anyone who sticks around until there post count is considered sufficient to be upgraded to member status would be around the forum for enough time to get to know how things work around here plus get answers to basic and frequent questions they might have like fuel efficiency and market price of an allion

Stig and Jdnet were newbies not so long ago. From day 1, they contributed to the forum. Blocking newbies (or anyone) is not the way to go imho.

[The Don]

For the problem of people giving misleading advice and damaging the reputation of AL, may I suggest the following.

At present, we have four levels of memberships - moderators, pro members, members and newbies.

Apart from the moderator group, the rest of the groups are essentially the same, with same level of privileges and these are mere titles solely based on the post count.

So my suggestion is, instead of having 'pro members', 'members' and 'newbies', let's have two groups (moderators excluded) as 'Members' and 'Trusted Members',

1. Trusted Members are members who have given factually accurate, timely and relevant information to any queries continually and their advice can be simply trusted.

2. Time and again, Trusted Members can be elected by moderators and other Trusted Members. Trusted Members can also be removed if moderators and other Trusted Members see fit. Getting elected as a Trusted Member is not related to the post count. It's on a purely democratic basis. If a member has posted only 50 posts and if the posts are of high quality, he/she can be elected as a trusted member.

3. Trusted Members do not have any extra authorities on the forum or any extra privileges. They merely carry an extra tag saying that they are Trusted Members and their advice can be trusted.

4. Any member/Trusted Member has the right to post in any topic as usual. And anyone can listen, dispute or argue with any opinion as usual. Having a 'Trusted Member' title is merely the forum's way of telling any newcomer or member that 'we feel this guy's advice can be trusted'.

Now the problems:

Some members may see this as an offensive move to sway the forum's general opinion. However, it is the Trusted Member's responsibility to be factual and objective as much as possible. For example, even if a Trusted Member personally would'nt buy a Prius, he/she should be responsible enough to acknowledge its benefits.

What do you think?

I think your suggestion is a valid one. We probably should have some indicator on the status of the user which is not just about post count a bit like the ebay feedback mechanism. If the people who ask the questions were able to mark posts as answers or assisted answers then we can possibly have something like that going. The problem is we are limited by the capabilities of IP board but worth looking into.

And also thank you for taking the time off to engage productively.

[MADZ]

I think your suggestion is a valid one. We probably should have some indicator on the status of the user which is not just about post count a bit like the ebay feedback mechanism. If the people who ask the questions were able to mark posts as answers or assisted answers then we can possibly have something like that going. The problem is we are limited by the capabilities of IP board but worth looking into.

And also thank you for taking the time off to engage productively.

Yep I can do that if the rest of the Mods agree...Can you guys please send me a list of names (nick nams) so that I can assign them the new member status?

[The Don]

The leader has spoken. Over to you, Peri & Supra...........

[MasterDon]

I also suggest that the moderators should confer with each other before handing our warnings and bans.Because if The Don decides in his self righteous head to ban all the "bad language" and not so Ghandi-like members,I'm afraid AL will loose it's most valued contributors.Unless ofcourse The Don thinks he's expert enough for us all...

I'd also like an explanation when the mods delete my posts.I didn't bother Peri when he was a one man show,but now with the new man power onboard it should be possible.

[YALA]

Stig and Jdnet were newbies not so long ago. From day 1, they contributed to the forum. Blocking newbies (or anyone) is not the way to go imho.

it doesnt restrict them from posting on existing threads just creating new posts

[Supra_Natural]

I also suggest that the moderators should confer with each other before handing our warnings and bans.Because if The Don decides in his self righteous head to ban all the "bad language" and not so Ghandi-like members,I'm afraid AL will loose it's most valued contributors.Unless ofcourse The Don thinks he's expert enough for us all...

I'd also like an explanation when the mods delete my posts.I didn't bother Peri when he was a one man show,but now with the new man power onboard it should be possible.

MD What is WITH the animosity man? The Don has been making valuable contributions here for a very long time machan, you do agree with that right? So whats with all the dislike?

Also, no one's going to ban anyone out of hand, me, peri or anyone else. That sort of thing will always be a joint decision only in extreme circumstances. Anyhow, lets keep the swearing to a minimum ok? That's always been something that has been practiced on this forum (Whenever Peri caught it at least). And don't worry, if posts are removed from now on we'll make sure to give a reason.

Chill out bro... Don't worry, AL isn't going to become a "New Regime"

[Supra_Natural]

On another note, how about you guys start by trying to end Sylvi's nonsense? His posts are verbal diarrhea and his advice is both dangerous to n00bs who know nothing about cars and insulting to this forum as a whole. You want to make this a better place? stop sylvi's b.s. and stop him from taking every single thread off topic and defending himself by saying he has 50 years experience and we come from whore mothers and went to third class schools. Before you guys talk about everyone else being rude and going O.T., how about dealing with this old prick?

Sylvi has agreed to stay on topic, from now on there will be zero tolerance for rambling...

[carboy2011]

nope if new members cannot create posts then the whole point of a forum is lost mate,you might as next start a membership fee for everyone to post next!

as far as i know all automotive posts allow members to create new threads ,there are of course exclusive auto forums where you need to pay and be a member

it doesnt restrict them from posting on existing threads just creating new posts

[Ripper]

MD What is WITH the animosity man? The Don has been making valuable contributions here for a very long time machan, you do agree with that right? So whats with all the dislike?

Also, no one's going to ban anyone out of hand, me, peri or anyone else. That sort of thing will always be a joint decision only in extreme circumstances. Anyhow, lets keep the swearing to a minimum ok? That's always been something that has been practiced on this forum (Whenever Peri caught it at least). And don't worry, if posts are removed from now on we'll make sure to give a reason.

Chill out bro... Don't worry, AL isn't going to become a "New Regime"

MD might be having a good chuckle yanking Don's chain for all i know He's quite capable of that

And yeah...i to agree with Supra... "The Don" has been a great contributor for a long time. In fact i expected him to be raised to a Mod a lot sooner.

But i do agree with MD's sentiments too... about the points MD and Dilesh made about why some "seniors" are made to fight for what's factually correct when some people try to BS a lot here. That too the few "posers" we have here.

Unfortunately, post count has no connection to accuracy or knowledge of people cos there are quite a few "posers" who have high post counts and also "well respected" by some people for their excellent googling skills!

I don't see a perfect solution but it's good to see many people making an effort to make some progress.

[Pericles]

maybe just block newbies from creating new topics...let them be active until they are upgraded to member status to open up new topics..anyone who sticks around until there post count is considered sufficient to be upgraded to member status would be around the forum for enough time to get to know how things work around here plus get answers to basic and frequent questions they might have like fuel efficiency and market price of an allion

Not gonna work. There are people who join just to ask a question on some trouble they have, but they won't want to stick around. Can't penalize them over the fuel efficiency and Allion price people.

[nexus]

i have a little suggestion for you fellas(moderators) do something about those people who link there FB accounts with autolanka it's ridiculous to see their FB recent status updates in AL recent status updates section like with that guy Ayad Zubair.

[Sylvi]

You give yourself far too much credit. One of the things about this warning system is that only moderators can see other people's warning. So just coz you don't see other people's warnings, don't assume you have the top score

'Pericles',

Do not misunderstand I was not aware of the how warning system is operating on this forum.Tat was the reason for posting that post.

At the start I used to address the members in honorable way. Even on this thread there are unwanted comments for my past posts by a member.

I have totally ignore this member he is trying to drag me for another unwanted replies to his posts.

I have followed the principle forget and forgive.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

[Magnum]

Silvi should stay off some topics, such as the "buying a new smartphone" thread

[jdnet]

Listen, no offence to the new mods, you both are really great guys and it's been a pleasure talking to you, however, you seem to have caught the califonikan bug. Of all the automotive forums that I've been a part of, this is the only one that places more emphasis on not gettiing peoples feelings hurt than actually promoting talk and the exchange of ideas about cars. Seriously, go join any other forum and ask a stupid question, you would get your arse handed to you. Also, why all this talk about being nice to people? Everyone here is generally nice when it comes to n00bs and the only time they get insulted is when they ask something really stupid, like lets say; should I buy a car or SUV. If they get their feelings hurt, so what? you scared of a lawsuit? This whole thing is a real turn off.

We are all adults here, so whats the big deal with Masterdon or anyone else saying f*ck? it gets censored to a PG-13 level anyway

Madz, no offence, but, if you want this to be a place with professionals that dress up in suits and answer questions, then you should probably hire some. This is a forum like any other forum in the world, there would be a good side and a bad, it's both of these sides that make people come back.

are you guys expecting this to be a place where some idiot keeps asking the same mundane question about an allion and expecting the rest of us to answer it even though we don't get paid to be here?

This place was fine and peri was doing a good job at it. All you had to do to make things better was to put in more moderators to get rid of the trolls and troll posts, instead you are turning this into a train wreck by trying to turn everyone into saints and listening to some whiny butthurt f*ggots. Seriously take a look around at the people who actually contribute (and no, i'm not talking about our resident googlepappas) do you see then whining about the language? It's only the butthurt people that ask stupid questions that are crying bloody murder.

Also I was a n00b here once. Got raped by VVTI, I turned out fine. We are on good terms now too Maybe you should have a test to see if these people who join the forums are men or eunuchs.

The Don and Supra seem to be just making a big issue out of nothing and I am very surprised at you guys. We are all adults here and I think we can take a few insults and not contemplate suicide.

Now how about doing something that actually matters and just get rid of the trolls?

Again, I'm not trying to offend you guys, but I am very surprised at this new turn. Like it was mentioned before, you guys are suddenly trying to act like saints and turn this into a site for 12 year olds to discuss barbies new car.

Edited September 13, 2012 by jdnet

[jdnet]

Also, if MD wants to say f*ck, the man earned it. It's people like him and posts about restoring his 'rust buckets' that keep this site going. If you guys want to side with the butt hurt allion gang, then by all means do so. You guys can have a site that discusses every aspect of the allion and how to mix your own octane boosters while causing brain damage when you breath in the hazardous chemicals. I think yo might need to brain damaged people on the site anyway, they are probably the only ones who would want to read allion thread after allion thread.

[jdnet]

'Pericles',

Do not misunderstand I was not aware of the how warning system is operating on this forum.Tat was the reason for posting that post.

At the start I used to address the members in honorable way. Even on this thread there are unwanted comments for my past posts by a member.

I have totally ignore this member he is trying to drag me for another unwanted replies to his posts.

I have followed the principle forget and forgive.

Sylvi Wijesinghe.

Why don't you mention this members name? I won't get upset like you and insult your mom. Yeah and ignoring people who call you out on something is not a way of validating your misinformation.