Vitz Cvt Issue

[Rachitha]

Recently I experienced a hiccup while driving our Vitz which is a 1000cc (KSP90).

Then I called a known mechanic and recommend to change the CVT oil and do a calibration.

I did so and it was pulling well after the oil change.

But after about one week the problem has come up again and some times the gear is not engaging even though you are in "D" mode.

After sending back to the agent, they are not able to rectify and possible gearbox replacement was recommended.

Your experince and advise for a solution is welcome.

[chan5]

How is it in the morning starat. . .?

[maheshw]

How is it in the morning starat. . .?

+ Have you done the Atf on proper intervals? how it's act in cold start? D & R ?

[iRage]

Hi Rachitha:

Sorry to hear about the Vitz…

Do you know how the mechanic drained and filled the CVT oil? Did he by any chance mention that the oil that came out was lesser than what it was supposed to be?

Anyway not sure if this would apply to your case, but a common issue seems to be incorrect filling of the CVT fluid.

In my wife’s Vitz’s (KSP13) the CVT fluid can be drained out by just simply removing the drain plug at the bottom and filled through the filler tube on top.Pretty straight forward.

However with the CVT on the 90 series you can’t just simply draining it through a plug at the bottom. Most seem to incorrectly identify this as a drain plug when in reality it is a “filler tube”. Using this for draining results in "not all the oil getting drained out" as the top of the hole is a few inches off the bottom of the catchment area. Thus, draining requires the panto to be removed. To add this the breather hole of the 90 series Vitz cannot be used for filling. So if all the old oil was not drained out, then there is a high possibility that the CVT unit gets overfilled if this breather plug was used for refilling. There are two components to filling, a filler plug on top and the filler tube in the bottom (no idea about the correct procedure for filing it through, RAV4 includes having to inject the fluid in from the bottom of the car which is the easiest way to access it…).If the proper plugs were used then even if the old oil remained it would not get overfilled as it would have leveled off/created a mess at the right point.

Apparently a consequence of this “over filling” is the gearbox going bad (no idea how this happens so maybe you can put some theory in to that for me as well).

Maybe the following EPC diagram could make it a bit clearer about the drain plug positioning and the breather plugs.

KSP90’s

http://toyota.epcdata.ru/vitz/ksp90/1234/chassis/3401/

35141x <breather hole>

35133 <filler plug>

35125 <filler tube>

Vs SCP13’s

http://toyota.epcdata.ru/vitz/scp13/1121/chassis/3401/

35013 <filler assembly/dip stick>

35106 <drain plug>

35141 <breather plug>

As for replacing…well most technical service manuals (well RAV4, KSP13 Vitz and Allion 260) I have seen recommend CVT unit replacement and not try to fix it. Then again I have never heard of a refurbished/rebuilt CVT unit either...

Hope it actually is not too bad…

[osaka_dude]

problems with Vehicle speed sensor(CVT output side) and Main shaft speed sensor(some hi-end vehicle CVTs have this on the CVT input side in addition to the Engine speed sensor,not sure if the Vitz does) are known to create problems with shifting in CVT gearboxes.

may be do a diagnosis scan if the problem persists.

Edited May 6, 2014 by osaka_dude

[Rachitha]

Thanks for the feedback....

I guess what iRage is trying to explain is pictographically presented by below,

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i-y-projects/168298-transmission-oil-change-toyota-vitz-belta-passo-toyota-k410-transmission

It was 30K km when I bought the car and changed the oil at 40K km. Now its 82K km when I changed the oil at the Toyota agent.

Since its the agent I guess they might've done a proper job. Not sure though...

I wish this is an electronic thing, but I don't understand most of them as well.

Please keep ideas rolling as it would help me to capture all possible root causes.

[GayanR]

Thanks for the feedback....

I guess what iRage is trying to explain is pictographically presented by below,

http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/d-i-y-projects/168298-transmission-oil-change-toyota-vitz-belta-passo-toyota-k410-transmission

It was 30K km when I bought the car and changed the oil at 40K km. Now its 82K km when I changed the oil at the Toyota agent.

Since its the agent I guess they might've done a proper job. Not sure though...

I wish this is an electronic thing, but I don't understand most of them as well.

Please keep ideas rolling as it would help me to capture all possible root causes.

you ran 40k without an oil change

Edited May 7, 2014 by GayanR

[Rachitha]

you ran 40k without an oil change

Yes, we are talking about CVT oil...

[Rachitha]

Last night I took the car for a drive and noticed that there is a slipping during hard acceleration in "D" mode. And it was also an intermittent thing popping up.

And also not much apparent or haldy any slipping in "S" mode and "B" mode in the gear selector.

No issues in reverse gear, but one Toyota technician has told that once the reverse gear starts slipping you wont be able to move the car at all.

My father has checked for gearboxes around Wijerama, Nugegoda area. It seems the CVT gearboxes for Vitz is a fast moving item for the recondition parts shops. The price ranges from Rs 95,000 to 110,000.

Looks like time to start searching for a good gearbox.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Rachitha

[iRage]

Damn..that is pretty high for a used unit...how much is a new one ?

Do these units come with an exchange policy in case the new one doesn't work ?

[Rachitha]

Yeah, they accept returns if the Gearbox doesnt work....but the oil itself is about Rs10K if you change it with the GB.

Drove the car to Katunayake in the morning, there was a slight slipping in the first 20min during hard accel, but when you lift off it engages again. Also not when in 'S' or 'B' mode. After 20-25min there were no slipping how evermuch I try to accel.

Downloaded a service manual for the CVT. Must read it before changing the gearbox. So many sensors for a GB.

[GayanR]

Yeah, they accept returns if the Gearbox doesnt work....but the oil itself is about Rs10K if you change it with the GB.

Drove the car to Katunayake in the morning, there was a slight slipping in the first 20min during hard accel, but when you lift off it engages again. Also not when in 'S' or 'B' mode. After 20-25min there were no slipping how evermuch I try to accel.

Downloaded a service manual for the CVT. Must read it before changing the gearbox. So many sensors for a GB.

HI bro have you checked the ecu for any errors...do a engine scan and see if you can...i once had a nightmare with three popular garages...all recommend me to changed the gearbox so i did...was not cvt anyway...issue came back again it was actually felt like slipping in first gear to second gear...finally i went for a scan myself through A*W guess what it was a randomly malfunctioning maf sensor...it didn't even throw out any ecu codes on normal OBD scanners...was a simple fix wasted lot of money refiling oil and what not..no idea about cvt but better to go for a good scan first

[asrock]

KSP 90 is a fairly new car, maintenance should have been very bad for a CVT gearbox to fail like that.

[Rachitha]

As far as scan is concern it was done at the agent and no sensor or any DTC codes found.

Seems it is a common issue on Toyota CVTs. There are people who repair these as well. But it costs about Rs 75K for a repair.

I managed to find a GB for little less than the mkt price, but the 260, 141 gear boxes are in the range of 225K if it fails. Most of them get repaired for lesser cost.

These are some of the infor I got from few mechanics.

So finally replaced my GB last friday and keeping fingers crossed for this week to see whether the problem is sorted. Generally parts guys give you 7 days return policy/ warranty.

Well if anyone wants Vitz manual is available at

http://microimageonline.com/forums/showthread.php?4232-YARIS-REPAIR-TECH-TSB-FILES

Thank you for all of your inputs.

[Seeker LK]

As far as scan is concern it was done at the agent and no sensor or any DTC codes found.

Seems it is a common issue on Toyota CVTs. There are people who repair these as well. But it costs about Rs 75K for a repair.

I managed to find a GB for little less than the mkt price, but the 260, 141 gear boxes are in the range of 225K if it fails. Most of them get repaired for lesser cost.

These are some of the infor I got from few mechanics.

So finally replaced my GB last friday and keeping fingers crossed for this week to see whether the problem is sorted. Generally parts guys give you 7 days return policy/ warranty.

Well if anyone wants Vitz manual is available at

http://microimageonline.com/forums/showthread.php?4232-YARIS-REPAIR-TECH-TSB-FILES

Thank you for all of your inputs.

Just curious.. did the GB change helped you?

[asrock]

How would you feel the gear slipping issue on a CVT?

[jkim]

hi there,

i had similar symptoms, thought my gear box was faulty but to my surprise, it wasn't. After thorough diagnostics and testing, the problem was debugged! Faulty computer...I had an option of fixing it or replacing with a new one. I went with the cost-effective way and got it repaired. It had a couple of blown circuits and fuses which were replaced. As i speak, my yaris 2006 990cc 3 cylinder is peaking like a baby RS, crazy!!! It has over 30% more power, 0-100kph 6.2sec, was thinking that I had being driving for quite a while with some faulty components before all went dead..My current problem now is "cvt blowing out the breather", this happens once in a while. I have customized an oil catch can where I have inserted the breather thus no more cvt spill but more of cvt catch.. Apart from that, the car is performing exceptionally well... installing an AMR 300 and intercooler soon

Edited November 14, 2016 by jkim

[bagUrE]

Currently I'm experiencing an issue with my KSP 90 Vitz (2007-1000 CC).

I feel the pulling power is low. It fails climbing  inclines even with two passengers onboard; cannot even get on to a kerb no matter how hard I press the accelerator.

Runs fine on flat roads and no problem if I enter a climb with the momentum.

Recently did a tune up at D1m0. Cleaned injectors & throttle body; replaced plugs and replaced the gear box side engine mount as well. There was a excessive vibration when stopped in traffic with breaks on & A/C on before the tune up and now it is not vibrating that much. However, there is no improvement in pulling power. CVT oil has been changed at 18000 km and now odo is around 72000. What could be the issue?

 

[The Stig]

15 hours ago, bagUrE said:

Currently I'm experiencing an issue with my KSP 90 Vitz (2007-1000 CC).

I feel the pulling power is low. It fails climbing  inclines even with two passengers onboard; cannot even get on to a kerb no matter how hard I press the accelerator.

Runs fine on flat roads and no problem if I enter a climb with the momentum.

Recently did a tune up at D1m0. Cleaned injectors & throttle body; replaced plugs and replaced the gear box side engine mount as well. There was a excessive vibration when stopped in traffic with breaks on & A/C on before the tune up and now it is not vibrating that much. However, there is no improvement in pulling power. CVT oil has been changed at 18000 km and now odo is around 72000. What could be the issue?

 

That is most likely the problem,  you haven't changed cvt fluid in 54k. 

[Jor-el]

28 minutes ago, The Stig said:

That is most likely the problem,  you haven't changed cvt fluid in 54k. 

Should CVTF be changed more frequently than ATF? 

[Twin Turbo]

On 5/6/2014 at 5:14 PM, Rachitha said:

Recently I experienced a hiccup while driving our Vitz which is a 1000cc (KSP90).

Then I called a known mechanic and recommend to change the CVT oil and do a calibration.

I did so and it was pulling well after the oil change.

But after about one week the problem has come up again and some times the gear is not engaging even though you are in "D" mode.

After sending back to the agent, they are not able to rectify and possible gearbox replacement was recommended.

Your experince and advise for a solution is welcome.

  There are no servic parts other than fluid filters for auto boxes here, Therefore the only repair is replacement,.As far the agent is concerned.

Tryreplacing the air filter and check/replace the fuel filter and check fuel system pressure. and get more giddy-up.The trans fluid is only partially renued when you drain and re fill the sump.

Having said that, There are a number of indipendant specialists who seem to get something positive done. (pls ref  pre posts.)

Edited December 28, 2016 by Twin Turbo

[hrm]

1 hour ago, Jor-el said:

Should CVTF be changed more frequently than ATF? 

CVT usually needs to be changed at 40K intervals. For heavy use like constant stop n go traffic some recommend to do it in 25K intervals.

[Jor-el]

2 minutes ago, hrm said:

CVT usually needs to be changed at 40K intervals. For heavy use like constant stop n go traffic some recommend to do it in 25K intervals.

Then it is as same as ATF innit, they recommend changing ATF at 40K intervals if the car is run under severe conditions

[hrm]

39 minutes ago, Jor-el said:

Then it is as same as ATF innit, they recommend changing ATF at 40K intervals if the car is run under severe conditions

Yeah. Problem with CVTs is when you happen to see the issues it may be too late to change rather to repair/replace. OPs problem could be something else as well but clearly he should have replaced CVTF earlier.

Edited December 28, 2016 by hrm

[tux]

Does anyone know how CVT behave when stucked in traffic. Does input pully in engine side keep spinning and CVT belt keep slipping when gear is in D and vehicle is not moving. If that is the case, I guess there will be lots of wear and tear happens when driven in Colombo crazy traffic. 

[The Stig]

56 minutes ago, tux said:

Does anyone know how CVT behave when stucked in traffic. Does input pully in engine side keep spinning and CVT belt keep slipping when gear is in D and vehicle is not moving. If that is the case, I guess there will be lots of wear and tear happens when driven in Colombo crazy traffic. 

Huh????? 

Cvt has a torque convertor like a normal AT.