My New Ride : Mistubishi Lancer CS1 GLX (A/T) YOM 2007

[iRage]

27 minutes ago, Davy said:

Exactly. Manufacturers sometimes are known to severely under estimate certain service requirements. One thing I have first hand experience is the TC-SST transmission currently on my car. The service schedule says the first oil change needs to be done at 90,000 km! Experts all over the world strongly suggest changing oil and filter every 40,000 km (some even suggest shorter intervals like 20,000 km for track cars) due to the design of the unit. This is actually one of the reasons the earlier TC-SST units gave trouble. People ran with old oil close to 100,000 km, and naturally the transmissions failed. Not saying this will happen to every car, but this is one instance where "manufacturer specification" was just too infrequent. 

The thing with agents and dealers is that they do everything by the book. So they don't even open up the transmission and clean the pan (not their fault - its not in the service schedule). For a country like Sri Lanka where we constantly strain our gearboxes driving abruptly and crawling in traffic half the time, it doesn't take 15 years for these filters to get clogged. So taking the car to a separate garage every 40,000 km or so and doing an ATF change where the pan is removed, cleaned, filter is changed and gasket is replaced is actually a good idea IMO. The bottom line is that the agent follows a reactive approach whereas consumers prefer the option of carrying out preventive maintenance. 

On the topic of transmission maintenance, sealed transmissions are becoming more common now. What that is basically a car with a maintenance free transmission. I believe some manufacturers including Mitsubishi and Hyundai have already stepped into this scene. In fact the TC-SST transmission is supposed to be "sealed". You break it, you replace it! However, many workshops now carry out successful overhauling of these transmissions.

Interestingly when I took the Mark X to the agents...they said the ATF filter should be changed with the oil and because they didn't have the specific filter in stock that I should come back after 6 - 8 weeks ! My car had only 60000kms at the time. So yeah....agents....they are an enigma. Even in Japan they follow it by the book..but considering that 90% of the cars are used pretty much according to what the manufacturer has presumed I guess it all works out.

Well..the A30 series RAV4's CVT is supposed to be a sealed, no maintenance transmission. It is only to be inspected at 100,000kms and provide necessary maintenance. Same with most of the K series CVTs. However, we all know how that is working out 

Basically, what the manufacturers provide is the basic minimum requirements (both schedule wise and consumables) for the car to operate under normal conditions. After all going to a more rigorous schedule and consumables with a higher threshold would result in a significant increase in cost of ownership which would be a burden on the owner.  

Edited August 9, 2017 by iRage

[Sampath Gunasekera]

I rechecked with a senior technician at UM and he said for Lancer CS series, this transmission filter comes in lifetime basis and they replace it only if  any repair needed with transmission unit/open the chamber ,as this filter is mounted inside the transmission chamber. My car is 9.5 years old and  96,500km at the clock. ATF change done for the second time in two weeks ago.  Still no issue found and transmission works smoothly.  I am worry, without any issue, opening this transmission chamber and  if anything done/goes wrongly there, this would be a "Illan kema".  . So decided to leave it as it is (as happen with other CS units here). I hope to keep this vehicle may be for next 3 years and if anything goes wrong under my ownership with that is my "karume" 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Sampath Gunasekera

[iRage]

What do you mean inside the chamber ? In pretty much all the AT gearboxes I have seen the filter sits above the base cover/pan. So inside as in its in the bottom. Typically the filter sucks in the oil from the pan where the oil goes through the oil filter and back in to the mechanism. So getting to the filter is not a matter of dismantling the gearbox but removing the bottom pan. Its nothing complicated. Remember I mentioned a Volvo 740 GLE ? It belonged to a friend of mine and he and I did it at our dorm parking lot during thanksgiving weekend (i.e. long weekend and it is cold outside). It was messy...but really not complicated.

Again, I think this is mostly a case of "following the book" and agents/manufacturers under estimating service requirements. Because statistically it works. Not to mention not wanting to do it the messy way

Started looking in to the technical reasoning as to why the filter is not replaced anymore and it seems to be a matter inferences and convenience.

Apparently in the past it was done every time because the only way to remove the oil was through the pan below. So it was a case of "since you have it removed..you might as well change it". Since now most people use fluid exchange machines the extra burden of removing the pan is not worth it just for a filter change. (Seems like even now if using the machine is not an option and the change is done through the pan then you should change it).

The "not needing to change"  is justified though the fact that since the gearbox is a closed unit the internal mechanism has no interaction with any foreign elements. Thus, the only possible debris in the filter would be metal shavings from the transmission and when a transmission reaches that stage it requires far more than a fluid and filter change so why bother . The oil needs replacing apparently not because of contaminants but the breakdown of the oils (so I suppose the non-serviceable gearboxes have some super duper synthetic oil that doesn't break down ?). 

But then the above seems to be based on the fact that the car would be used under which can be classified as "normal" conditions and not "severe". So then again the whole thing is thrown in to limbo because what happens when the usage is severe ? 

As before, I think this is one of those things where you have to decide based on necessities stemming from your own use of the car  Davy's TC-SST is a prime example. I guess we have to trust that the local agents factor in local conditions when they "go by the book".  Still, I too am with Davy....there is no harm in getting the thing replaced at a reputable garage after a decent interval. I don't know about SL but in Japan the agent will do such pre-empive repairs if the owner insists. The Mark X's filter in Japan was just 3000yen (no idea how much it is at TLC). So if it helps to prolong the life of the car..why not ? So...I am sure your gearbox is not going to give issues for the next three years or more because of the filter...but if the filter was changed would that car run for 25 years as opposed to 15 or 20 ?

Going off topic...maybe the above highlights an un-thought of reason that contribute towards old cars lasting longer....there were no easy ways to get things done and that resulted in us in inadvertently being pre-emptive about a lot of things (no fluid exchange machines = rip the bottom off and replace everything ) . 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by iRage

[Sampath Gunasekera]

9 hours ago, iRage said:

What do you mean inside the chamber ? In pretty much all the AT gearboxes I have seen the filter sits above the base cover/pan. So inside as in its in the bottom. Typically the filter sucks in the oil from the pan where the oil goes through the oil filter and back in to the mechanism. So getting to the filter is not a matter of dismantling the gearbox but removing the bottom pan. Its nothing complicated. Remember I mentioned a Volvo 740 GLE ? It belonged to a friend of mine and he and I did it at our dorm parking lot during thanksgiving weekend (i.e. long weekend and it is cold outside). It was messy...but really not complicated.

Again, I think this is mostly a case of "following the book" and agents/manufacturers under estimating service requirements. Because statistically it works. Not to mention not wanting to do it the messy way

Started looking in to the technical reasoning as to why the filter is not replaced anymore and it seems to be a matter inferences and convenience.

Apparently in the past it was done every time because the only way to remove the oil was through the pan below. So it was a case of "since you have it removed..you might as well change it". Since now most people use fluid exchange machines the extra burden of removing the pan is not worth it just for a filter change. (Seems like even now if using the machine is not an option and the change is done through the pan then you should change it).

The "not needing to change"  is justified though the fact that since the gearbox is a closed unit the internal mechanism has no interaction with any foreign elements. Thus, the only possible debris in the filter would be metal shavings from the transmission and when a transmission reaches that stage it requires far more than a fluid and filter change so why bother . The oil needs replacing apparently not because of contaminants but the breakdown of the oils (so I suppose the non-serviceable gearboxes have some super duper synthetic oil that doesn't break down ?). 

But then the above seems to be based on the fact that the car would be used under which can be classified as "normal" conditions and not "severe". So then again the whole thing is thrown in to limbo because what happens when the usage is severe ? 

As before, I think this is one of those things where you have to decide based on necessities stemming from your own use of the car  Davy's TC-SST is a prime example. I guess we have to trust that the local agents factor in local conditions when they "go by the book".  Still, I too am with Davy....there is no harm in getting the thing replaced at a reputable garage after a decent interval. I don't know about SL but in Japan the agent will do such pre-empive repairs if the owner insists. The Mark X's filter in Japan was just 3000yen (no idea how much it is at TLC). So if it helps to prolong the life of the car..why not ? So...I am sure your gearbox is not going to give issues for the next three years or more because of the filter...but if the filter was changed would that car run for 25 years as opposed to 15 or 20 ?

Going off topic...maybe the above highlights an un-thought of reason that contribute towards old cars lasting longer....there were no easy ways to get things done and that resulted in us in inadvertently being pre-emptive about a lot of things (no fluid exchange machines = rip the bottom off and replace everything ) . 

 

iRage, I too understand the importance of the changing transmission filter and will check with UM at my next visit and keep you updated with more details. Usually I drive 20,000km per year and hope next ATF change will come soon.   . Anyway I have some priorities in the list like , replacing rear two tires, engine tune up, replacing two engine mounts (two engine mounts found broken when inspect at last service), replacing fuel filter. I do one by one according to my cash flow. I wish if I had an Uncle Aloysius  who come and settle my all car maintenance bills secretly, I could have done all pending maintenance work at once    

[Jor-el]

17 hours ago, iRage said:

 

Started looking in to the technical reasoning as to why the filter is not replaced anymore and it seems to be a matter inferences and convenience.

1

Customers often ask if they should change the filter as well as the fluid.

In the past, automatic transmission fluid was changed by removing the pan, changing the filter and gasket and refilling with 1/3 the capacity of the transmission. This was the only method known to change the fluid so it was the acceptable method.

When transmission flushing equipment was introduced to the market, people started to ask, “what about the filter?” “we used to change it, why don’t we have to change it now?” The answer to this is, it was changed before because we already had the pan off so “we might as well” plus the filter company’s packaged the gaskets with filters and encouraged this practice.

An automatic transmission is a closed hydraulic device with no foreign matter being introduced. Therefore, if the filter on a transmission should ever become plugged, it is plugged with transmission parts! This means the transmission is past the point of needing a fluid change. An engine, on the other hand, is constantly exposed to foreign matter (air and fuel) which brings in contaminants as well as the combustion that creates many other byproducts. The engine oil filter is designed to filter these products out.

Many transmission manufacturers use only a screen on the fluid pickup to filter out any casting flaws or debris that could be poured down the dipstick. Some manufacturers do not recommend changing the filter.

The fluid will break down and needs to be changed, the filters do not plug up on a healthy transmission.

http://www.fluidservicetech.com/resources/change-filter.html

 

Not sure if this article is accurate though

[Sampath Gunasekera]

This article says why ATF filter should be changed. 

http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/168

[iRage]

Again..this can be argued back and forth. It seems to be a matter of judgement. Perhaps you might not need to change the filter every time you change the ATF but perhaps after a certain amount of usage and depending on the conditions the car is being used in. So perhaps when the next ATF change is done were I suppose the car would be about 12 years old and has about 150,000km (you did say you drive about 20,000km per year) perhaps you should look in to changing the filter as it does seem about match up with things like what manufacturers would have considered as its lifetime (15-20 years thus 150,000 - 200,000kms).  

[Jor-el]

On 8/7/2017 at 10:38 PM, Sampath Gunasekera said:

 

Three months passed under my ownership.

Some maintenance work done at agents.

 

1

What about the air filter and cabin air filter?

[Sampath Gunasekera]

12 hours ago, Jor-el said:

What about the air filter and cabin air filter?

They are in good condition at the moment and can use for a while.

[Sampath Gunasekera]

My right side mirror unit was broken by a sleepy, stupid Prius driver. Whole unit was damaged & mirror unit detached from the car and damaged  outer casing too. It happened when my car was stationary. He wanted not to visit Police station or not to call his insurance and after negotiations, he paid me at same time. (He was not the owner of the car)

I was seeking an used mirror unit everywhere and all places quoted me Rs.11,000/= - Rs12,000. But finally I could find a good piece (advertised on line) at Rs.8,000. Luckily colour of  replacement was very close to mine.  Slight colour difference is there but I will get it paint later.(May be it belongs to pre-face-lift unit).  But I had to waste few hours visiting Rajagiriya and collect the part. 

Replacement :

 

 

Edited October 20, 2017 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Davy]

49 minutes ago, Sampath Gunasekera said:

My right side mirror unit was broken by a sleepy, stupid Prius driver. Whole unit was damaged & detached from the car and damaged  outer casing too. It happened when my car was stationary. He wanted not to visit Police station or not to call his insurance and after negotiations, he paid me at same time. (He was not the owner of the car)

I was seeking an used mirror unit everywhere and all places quoted me Rs.11,000/= - Rs12,000. But finally I could find a good piece (advertised on line) at Rs.8,000. Luckily colour of  replacement was very close to mine.  Slight colour difference is there but I will get it paint later.(May be it belongs to pre-face-lift unit).  But I had to waste few hours visiting Rajagiriya and collect the part. 

Sampath, if the outer plastic shell of your original mirror is not damaged, you can easily swap the mechanism and mirror from the new mirror to the old one. Just a suggestion to avoid painting the new mirror cover. 

[Sampath Gunasekera]

1 hour ago, Davy said:

Sampath, if the outer plastic shell of your original mirror is not damaged, you can easily swap the mechanism and mirror from the new mirror to the old one. Just a suggestion to avoid painting the new mirror cover. 

Davy, actually outer plastic shell too damaged and one small piece separated from the shell. One of shop owners where the accident happen gave me a temporary mirror plate (back side damaged) of his  van and I could drive home safely and thank to him. That wide view van mirror is better than original mirror. 

 

 

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Car mileage  is almost at 100,000km and about to complete 10 years service  in December 2017. Last engine tune-up done 60,000km ago and today did the engine tune-up at agents.

Throttle body with carbon deposits (before cleaning)

Oil leak was observed on one spark plug due to hardening and deformation of rubber component called ‘seal - cylinder head spark plug guide’ and losing the sealing property.  

Rocker cover dismantled.

Replaced all 04 spark plug guides with new units. Rocker cover installed back after cleaning.

(Spark plug guide - Part Number: MD339118)

Edited October 27, 2017 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Continued from previous post...

Four spark plugs were replaced with new units. (Part No.:MS851357 , Manufacturer: NGK)

Unexpected issue popped up here.

Due to exposure to engine oil (+ may be time factor), spark plug cable head was deformed and lost proper sealing property. Even after hard try, it could not enter and seal the spark plug cavity and it kept pushing back.

Hence had to replace the spark plug cable set cost me Rs.9,474/= additionally.

(Spark plug cable set (Include 2 cables) : Part No.:MD365102)

After completing injector pressurizing and cleaning , re-installed all components.

Emission test was done and result was successful at both low and high RPM. Then scanning done and found no issues.

I did not replace genuine air filter from the agents as it is very costly and bough a VIC air filter from Semini Motors and installed it (Rs.3386/=)

Drove about 25km after engine-tune up and clearly feel quick and smooth acceleration than before.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Davy]

The ignition coil rubber seal swelling issue is a known issue on this engine. Faced this myself on my CS3. Although it doesn't enter the cavity totally, the end snaps into place with the spark plug top and it doesn't cause any issues (at least for me it didn't). 

After many years, it kept swelling more and more on my CS3, and what I did was carefully shave off some rubber from the seal which caused it to sit perfectly on the engine cover again. Back then, the seal didn't come as a separate replacement part - you had to buy the entire ignition coil (the engine has two ignition coils, each shared between two cylinders) . I think for newer models, they redesigned the leads, so that the seal can be separated from the lead/coil for replacement.

Anyway, good job! From the air filter and throttle body photos, it certainly looks like it needed a clean up. 

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Exactly one year passed car under my ownership and mileage is 108300km now.

Few maintenance work done within past 6 months.

(1)    Installed front and rear cameras with mirror mounted display (No recording function)

Very helpful at parking.  (Cost Rs.11,500/=)

(2)    Cabin cooling started to drop and A/C system repaired. (Cost Rs.16,500/=)

Replaced A/C evaporator coil & discharge hose.

(3)    Few months ago  at lubrication service , I was instructed by Unit#d Mot#rs to replace the damaged rubber boot at left side tie rod soon . However I could not replace soon. Result was left side tie rod worn due to rain water and sand entering them and  soon started to make noise very badly. Other suspension parts are already replaced 30,000km ago with genuine parts at agents and I did not want to replace other parts as they were in good condition. Hence replaced only left side tie rod with 555 brand (Mitsubishi Part No.: MR491358 / 555 brand part No.: SR7700) and also rubber boot replaced OHNO RP-2089). Issue solved. (Cost :Rs.5400 with labor)

(4)    Replaced brake pads with genuine parts at agents. Replaced brake oil too. (Cost Rs.18,994)

Mitsubishi brake pad part No.: MN116604

 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Davy]

4 hours ago, Sampath Gunasekera said:

I'm surprised how dirty that old brake fluid is for a car of this age. Looks like water/condensation was in the brake system at some point. Were there any brake oil leaks in the wheel cylinders at any point? 

[iRage]

1 hour ago, Davy said:

I'm surprised how dirty that old brake fluid is for a car of this age. Looks like water/condensation was in the brake system at some point. Were there any brake oil leaks in the wheel cylinders at any point? 

..and how effective were the brakes ?

As for being surprised at the color...well..yes but no....

The general recommendation is to change brake oil every 2 years or 20,000km (in some cases a bit more than that depending on the car and the area it is sold in). Now..if the oil was actually swapped 2 years ago...and this is the state after 2 years..then yes..it is surprising that it is so dirty. On the other hand it had not been changed for, lets say for a lot more than 4 years...then I guess it can be expected.

With the constant heat changes over a long period of time the brake oil can break down. On top of that the rubber components also get compromised over time which can absorb moisture more than usual.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by iRage

[Davy]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

..and how effective were the brakes ?

As for being surprised at the color...well..yes but no....

The general recommendation is to change brake oil every 2 years or 20,000km (in some cases a bit more than that depending on the car and the area it is sold in). Now..if the oil was actually swapped 2 years ago...and this is the state after 2 years..then yes..it is surprising that it is so dirty. On the other hand it had not been changed for, lets say for a lot more than 4 years...then I guess it can be expected.

With the constant heat changes over a long period of time the brake oil can break down. On top of that the rubber components also get compromised over time which can absorb moisture more than usual.

 

I agree brake fluid breaks down over time - especially in a country like Sri Lanka where it's hot and humid and where constant braking is required to drive around which heats up the system more. However, the amount of rust deposits (even on the "after" photo) is just a bit too surprising IMO. When I got my 2001 CS3 in 2008, the first owner had never done a brake fluid change and the reservoir was clean although the oil itself was a bit darkened.  There is a lot more rust in that reservoir than I'd expect it to have even if the fluid wasn't changed at all.

So I think either a brake cylinder had been leaking for quite some time without Sampath or the previous owner not knowing about it, and the leak would have caused moisture (or even water) to enter into the brake lines and corrode them. Quite plausible because our service stations remove brake drums and use high pressure washers to rinse the brakes. 

[Ruslan]

Wow!, Sampath did you remove the wheel cylinders and check for any rust? and check the washers. when i got the Vitara, recently overhauled the brakes and for my surprise, both rear wheel cylinder washers were leaking, Front left side Piston is corroded but not leaking, since agents didn't carry the parts, i have ordered them online. looks like the previous owner didn't even care to change the brake fluid and hence the consequences. and That Brake fluid can very similar to Seiken Brake fluid, perhaps Seiken is the Supplier for Mitsubishi?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ruslan

[Sampath Gunasekera]

There were no issue in braking performance and no leak found externally (up to my knowledge).

I just checked the service history file and found only three brake pad replacements are as follow. But no brake oil changes in last two occasions.

107933km  - 02.05.2018 – After doing 19408km (Under my ownership)

88525km  -  31.03.2017 – After doing 30695km

57830km -  03.03.2015

No any invoice found for brake pad replacements and I guess I miss one invoice in the file. Because definitely there should be at least one brake pad replacement between 2007 December and 2015 March  as this car was originally used in a hilly area Kandy from 2007 December  2014 February & done about 45,700km then. I guess brake oil was 04 or 05 years old. I am surprised why agent has not asked to change brake fluid as a bottle of Mitsubishi Genuine Brake Fluid (DOT 4)  is just Rs.1585/= at agents. (Actually previous owner seems replaced many parts without any hesitation whenever agent asked to replace and they maintained all service history. Even timing belt replaced at 45,000km considering the age 06 years even the mileage is low)

However before add new brake oil, guys removed the old oil at reservoir use a sucker and then add new oil and flushed the system. Also guys checked the rubber components and informed me no need to replaced. Anyway I will recheck this matter with agents on my next visit. Thanks all for your comments.

 

Edited May 8, 2018 by Sampath Gunasekera

[iRage]

1 hour ago, Davy said:

I agree brake fluid breaks down over time - especially in a country like Sri Lanka where it's hot and humid and where constant braking is required to drive around which heats up the system more. However, the amount of rust deposits (even on the "after" photo) is just a bit too surprising IMO. When I got my 2001 CS3 in 2008, the first owner had never done a brake fluid change and the reservoir was clean although the oil itself was a bit darkened.  There is a lot more rust in that reservoir than I'd expect it to have even if the fluid wasn't changed at all.

So I think either a brake cylinder had been leaking for quite some time without Sampath or the previous owner not knowing about it, and the leak would have caused moisture (or even water) to enter into the brake lines and corrode them. Quite plausible because our service stations remove brake drums and use high pressure washers to rinse the brakes. 

Which is why I am very picky about where the car gets serviced. A friend's car got the same treatment sometime back and it had literally dislodged some springs and rubber components. 

So based on Sampath's reply it just seems like it was just old age...perhaps the rubber hoses and nozzles do absorb moisture a little bit extra due to wear and tear (last time I saw this happen was in Las Vegas though)...

Edited May 8, 2018 by iRage

[nagaya]

On 5/8/2018 at 8:09 AM, Davy said:

I agree brake fluid breaks down over time - especially in a country like Sri Lanka where it's hot and humid and where constant braking is required to drive around which heats up the system more. However, the amount of rust deposits (even on the "after" photo) is just a bit too surprising IMO. When I got my 2001 CS3 in 2008, the first owner had never done a brake fluid change and the reservoir was clean although the oil itself was a bit darkened.  There is a lot more rust in that reservoir than I'd expect it to have even if the fluid wasn't changed at all.

So I think either a brake cylinder had been leaking for quite some time without Sampath or the previous owner not knowing about it, and the leak would have caused moisture (or even water) to enter into the brake lines and corrode them. Quite plausible because our service stations remove brake drums and use high pressure washers to rinse the brakes. 

Same thing happened to mine, there was little rust around and the inside the break cylinders. Recently, there was a small leak in one cylinder and replaced all 4 washers in both sides with Seiken 3/4" (exact model number is 14R56C or some thing like that) and replaced break fluid with Seiken BF3 (now break fluid is transparent in the reservoir, before that the oil was bit darker). Total cost was Rs.2300/= including labour at the local garage. Anyhow, I have the 3rd breakpad set in the front, now using MK breakpads and seems good. I couldn't find Sumotomo (original one from factory) from anywhere (other than the agent of course).

[Sampath Gunasekera]

Two Engine Mounts Replaced –  Odo:109,400km

I observed a little vibration on idle and after checking with the agent, they confirmed two engine mounts are needed to replace.

Lancer CS engine is mounted on 04 engine mounts. Replacement of two engine mounts mounted on central axis of the car is very common requirement in this stage and other two mounts can be used further. As per member Trinity, he is still on his originals(left and right side engine mounts) with odo over 200,000km.

Replaced two engine mounts at the agent today.

Parts Detail:

MR554244  - BRACKET,ENG ROLL STOPPER       – Rs.11,400/=

MR554746 - BRACKET,ENG RR ROLL STOPPER  – Rs.12,011/=

Labour                                                                          – Rs.2,034/=

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Total                                                                               -  Rs.25,445/=

Now car is very smooth even on idle.

Power Steering Fluid replaced. (Power Steering Fuid – Rs.1600 + Labour Rs.1200 = Rs.2800)

 

Edited May 30, 2018 by Sampath Gunasekera

[Davy]

I also replaced the same roll stoppers at home when my CS3 was just over 100,000km. The roll stoppers do a lot of work in countering the axial movement of the engine, so they wear out sooner compared to the others. The other two mounts on my CS3 was original as well, up until I sold the car.

I have seen some videos and posts on the internet of how people filled up the hollow space in those two roll stoppers using silicone glue or gasket maker to increase lifetime of the mounts. Apparently this works, but I'm sure it introduces a bit more vibration as the free movement of the rubber insert is restricted by adding silicone.