Hybrid battery cell voltage drop Issue

[Aslam86]

I recently purchase a Toyota Aqua 2013 model which has done 62000Km

Couple of days later the 'Check hybrid system' and 'Check Engine' indicators were shown. After taking to Toyota Lanka, I got a system scan done and the error code was P0A80, which is for Replace Hybrid battery pack. They identified the issue to be a voltage drop in one of the battery cell. They recommended to do a battery service, but while removing the battery they found the battery has already been serviced as well.

For the moment I have temporarily got the code deleted. This is temporary and the error will appear again (I got it twice). The recommended solution is to replace the battery pack. Agent price is extremely expensive, but few other places said it would cost around 200,000.

I wanted to know if replacing the problematic cell would be a good option? has anyone done this? if so what are the good places which this can be done.

I spent 4 Million for the car and don't have another 200K at the moment.  Anyone got any solution?

[Rumesh88]

3 hours ago, Aslam86 said:

I scanned the battery again this week after getting the error again over the weekend. A total of 8 cell needs to be replaced. Considering the cost its better to replace battery than replacing cell. Will do in a few months time. until then will be using the car with the error.

As you continue to run with bad cells other goods cells too deteriorate faster. The good cells get heated up (cos they are overcharged) when the same charging current passes through all the cells in series.

[vag2]

?

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎16 at 9:53 AM, gayanath said:

Any update?

Have you replaced the cell??

 

On ‎2017‎-‎11‎-‎23 at 12:26 PM, gayanath said:

Any update?

Have you fixed it?

 

@gayanath

your car has the similar problem or you want to make an extra buck with this information at your next seminar about servicing hybrids in Sri Lanka

Edited November 25, 2017 by vag2

[gayanath]

On 11/25/2017 at 6:05 PM, vag2 said:

@gayanath

your car has the similar problem or you want to make an extra buck with this information at your next seminar about servicing hybrids in Sri Lanka

Still no issue with my car

but nobody (having hybrid or electric) should expect themselves, they will never be have to face same issue one day... ha ha....  

BTW, Learning and knowledge sharing at zero cost.... is it bad?   .... 

Edited November 26, 2017 by gayanath

[vag2]

4 hours ago, gayanath said:

BTW, Learning and knowledge sharing at zero cost.... is it bad?   

@gayanath as long as your workshops about "why people shouldn't service their hybrid at 5000kms and do it at 20000kms instead" are cost free,all is good. But there are some kakko who share the knowledge and information taken from this forrum in some other forums and workshops and charge a price for that ?

[Jbreak]

Hi Aslam,

I also had the same issue in my Aqua (2012) in November 2017. I have consulted many people and finally arrived at the decision to replace cells. To make a long story short, did the repair with Nishantha electricals (Attidiya) and i got the job done with a 6 month warranty for less than 60k. Replaced 7 cells.Job was done by a German tech qualified guy and he carefully did the job.

You can temporally delete the error message from Dash board but it will appear after few hours or days. Replacing a battery is also tricky. According to Nishantha (I know this guy for a long time), brand new batteries can be found in the market from 3.5 lacks but still without warranty.

Japs have been very careful when designing the battery pack and they have not mentioned the year of manufacture of the battery. It can be identified by a CODE.

I've been running my car without any issues for close to two months now and hope it will last at least an year. I checked the matter with TOYOTA, and they said battery issues can be found in cars which has done over 100,000km, (True in my case!).

Nishantha recommend to replace the battery if more than 10 cells are weak. For aqua it comes with 20 cells and prius has 28. Price of a cell can be around Rs.6500 to Rs.8000. I got mine done for Rs.7000 per cell.

This was the only issue i had for last two years from my car and i guess its still worth it considering the fuel consumption. Before the repair it did about 16 in moderate traffic and now easily does about 18/19 p/l.

I saw someone has shared his number in this thread before but sharing it again here for help 0777799953

Edited February 6, 2018 by Jbreak

[Aslam86]

On 11/23/2017 at 4:56 PM, gayanath said:

Any update?

Have you fixed it?

 

Just to update:

I replaced the battery pack. Got it brand new pack imported through a place in Kaduwela and fixed it few days back.

Costs 285000 for the battery pack and 7500 for fixing.

[ajm]

1 hour ago, Aslam86 said:

Got it brand new

the picture is from the new battery or old one? The labels are quite worn out in the picture,that's why. Was the new battery voltages tested before mounting?

[iRage]

7 hours ago, ajm said:

the picture is from the new battery or old one? The labels are quite worn out in the picture,that's why. Was the new battery voltages tested before mounting?

I thikn the pic on top is the old one as the unit is quite dusty with faded stickers...the bottom one on the other hand looks clean..

[ajm]

yes,just noticed its a bit cleaner . Was a bit suspicious because of people who sell 2nd hand parts removed from local used vehicles as brand new these days

Edited March 30, 2018 by ajm

[VTEC]

On 3/30/2018 at 1:39 AM, Aslam86 said:

Just to update:

I replaced the battery pack. Got it brand new pack imported through a place in Kaduwela and fixed it few days back.

Costs 285000 for the battery pack and 7500 for fixing.

Hi Aslam86 do you mind sharing the contact of the person or company you got the Brand New battery from? Would help a few folks here. If it's against the rules would appreciate if you could PM me. Thanks.

[vag2]

oh boy,almost 300,000 bucks! are you first owner,what is the mileage now? did you save that much with fuel consumption? rough calculation shows about 22,000km to recover this cost.(additional 10km/litre with hybrid and Rs130/litre)

[MV-5]

4 hours ago, vag2 said:

oh boy,almost 300,000 bucks! are you first owner,what is the mileage now? did you save that much with fuel consumption? rough calculation shows about 22,000km to recover this cost.(additional 10km/litre with hybrid and Rs130/litre)

rough calculation? how did you calculate? i have passed 8 grade , but still i can not understand this. please explain

[vag2]

1 hour ago, MV-5 said:

rough calculation? how did you calculate? i have passed 8 grade , but still i can not understand this. please explain

based on rough assumptions.

Petrol 1L= 130Rupee
Distance per 1Rupee with non hybrid doing 15Km/L=0.115Km/rupee

Distance per 1Rupee with  hybrid doing 25Km/L=0.192Km/rupee

Range advantage with battery costing 290,000rupee =0.077km/rupee

Range advantage in Kilometers =290000x0.077=22300km

in other words , by spending additional 290,000 rupee for the battery,one will get a range of 55680km instead 33350km with the same amount of petrol correct?

Edited March 31, 2018 by vag2

[MV-5]

1 hour ago, vag2 said:

based on rough assumptions.

Petrol 1L= 130Rupee
Distance per 1Rupee with non hybrid doing 15Km/L=0.115Km/rupee

Distance per 1Rupee with  hybrid doing 25Km/L=0.192Km/rupee

Range advantage with battery costing 290,000rupee =0.077km/rupee

Range advantage in Kilometers =290000x0.077=22300km

in other words , by spending additional 290,000 rupee for the battery,one will get a range of 55680km instead 33350km with the same amount of petrol correct?

Thanks for the explanation. now i see it. i confused because of this fragment "about 22,000km to recover".

Your calculation is the way that hybrid users do math.if i use your figures to formulate this (even though non of them are realistic ):

to recover 290,000 rupees from X number of kilometers,

X/15 - X/25 = 290,000/130, find X

it is 84000 Km,

if you had to travel 84000 km using a 15kmpl car, then cost is 728000/=

If it is a car with 25kmpl  , then cost is 436800/=

then you have saved = aporx 290,000/=

I think now you can see why i was unable to figure out your calculation.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2018 by MV-5
typo

[gayanath]

2 hours ago, vag2 said:

based on rough assumptions.

Petrol 1L= 130Rupee
Distance per 1Rupee with non hybrid doing 15Km/L=0.115Km/rupee

Distance per 1Rupee with  hybrid doing 25Km/L=0.192Km/rupee

 

1 hour ago, MV-5 said:

X/15 - X/25 = 290,000/130, find X

it is 84000 Km,

Anyway, you both taken wrong figures for calculation, Petrol Price is still Rs. 117 (except for the people who think 95 is pure so paying 128 is worth) and fuel Saving by Aqua is 6 - 7 km/l (except who are night riders) 

Lets forget it.....,

Calculating with "brand new" battery price is ok for this particular case, but its not rational for general cases (even though its much cheaper than TL price) knowing that, most of the cars (mainly non hybrids) are repairing using used parts or after market products for cheaper price. There are people who replaced used battery packs from Rs. 100,000 onward (Knowing that batteries are depleting faster than mechanical parts).

BTW, its true that, hybrids are not economical for "non frequent" car users. 

[vag2]

5 hours ago, MV-5 said:

X/15 - X/25 = 290,000/130

your equation says,for X distance:

Liters of fuel consumed by non hybrid = Litres of fuel consumed by hybrid + the Liters of fuel the cost of battery will buy  ?

 

[MV-5]

5 hours ago, vag2 said:

your equation says,for X distance:

Liters of fuel consumed by non hybrid = Litres of fuel consumed by hybrid + the Liters of fuel the cost of battery will buy  ?

 

yes, that is the break even point.

[MV-5]

8 hours ago, gayanath said:

 

There are people who replaced used battery packs from Rs. 100,000 onward (Knowing that batteries are depleting faster than mechanical parts).

 

So you expect the same durability from this used batteries. this used batteries might be better to fix it and sell the vehicle.but if someone need long last solution i dont think  that using a used battery gives us any advantage.  

[Clark'sson]

And you should factor in the aditional maintainence and repair costs involved in a hybrid. So its actually not worth using a hybrid

But In the days when it was raining aquas and fits they were cheaper to buy than ice cars of the same segment with similar options. Thats why they are popular. But due to increased repair /maintainence costs and battery issues they are not holding on to their value as much as an ice car. So if its not a highly used car its not worth going for a hybrid.

And using used batteries is not a good option if yoi intend to keep the car (also if your genuinely going to sell it) . Actually used parts are only good for body parts. Electrical should be bought new and mechanical should be bought new or repaired if you want to enjoy trouble free motoring.

[gayanath]

12 hours ago, Clark'sson said:

And you should factor in the aditional maintainence and repair costs involved in a hybrid. 

Are you sure...?

Except traction battery replacement, what are the other additional maintenance and repair cost you refer, comparing with non-hybrid?

[ajm]

On 4/2/2018 at 3:00 AM, gayanath said:

Are you sure...?

Except traction battery replacement, what are the other additional maintenance and repair cost you refer, comparing with non-hybrid?

the Hybrid system consists of not only Battery,also the Inverter with cooling system and Traction Motor-Generator. All of which require maintenance during the vehicle life cycle. I know some people who already had the Inverter replaced at <100,000 kms.

[Aslam86]

On 3/31/2018 at 2:48 PM, vag2 said:

oh boy,almost 300,000 bucks! are you first owner,what is the mileage now? did you save that much with fuel consumption? rough calculation shows about 22,000km to recover this cost.(additional 10km/litre with hybrid and Rs130/litre)

Nope, Im the third owner. I got this car 7 months ago. Didn't know this issue was there till I got it. The mileage was around 62000Km.

[ajm]

1 hour ago, Aslam86 said:

Didn't know this issue was there till I got it. The mileage was around 62000Km.

you didnt do a Scan including Battery health before buying a used Hybrid,what was the Year of Manufacture?

62000km was the mileage when the battery issue came up or when you bought it?

[Aslam86]

2 hours ago, ajm said:

you didnt do a Scan including Battery health before buying a used Hybrid,what was the Year of Manufacture?

62000km was the mileage when the battery issue came up or when you bought it?

I did scan it, at that time the error code was reset. YOM is 2013. Yes 62000 is when I bought it and when I saw the error.

But seems the error was already there when I bought it.

[Ahmed aqeel]

What's the normal volt for hybrid battery of a aqua 2013 

How should a perfect hybrid show up in the report