Honda GP 1 battery condition

[sira]

Dear Friends

I'm hoping to buy this car and did the condition test. see the attached, will some one advice me how is the battery condition . this is 2011 Fid hybrit one

SOC - 72%

usable IMA battery capacity - 25%

 

 

 

[petrolHead1]

Hi,

I did this test few months ago when I bought a Vezel. The SOC is somewhat irrelevant as it is just an indication of the current battery charged percentage. However, battery usable capacity is very important. I was advised by an engineer from St@fford that an average functioning battery should have a minimum usable capacity of 30%. My Vezel which was bought brand new had a score of 50%. Therefore, my opinion is that the battery is nearing to replacement.

I also asked this question from the forum. The link is pasted below.

Cheers

[matroska]

As far as I know @petrolHead1 is correct with 30%. 30% and above should be ok  and below 15% is kinda really messed up so your potential cars battery while not on it's last legs is not in the best health either. 

BTW how much did this check cost you? (or the seller) 

[Ranil...]

Is this a good or bad battery? What r d standard avarage values required to be shown on used GP1 car?

[tbird]

On 2/17/2018 at 9:04 PM, sira said:

Dear Friends

I'm hoping to buy this car and did the condition test. see the attached, will some one advice me how is the battery condition . this is 2011 Fid hybrit one

SOC - 72%

usable IMA battery capacity - 25%

 

 

 

SOC means state of the charge of the battery at the time you performed the check. Usable capacity is the factor you should consider. 25% is not good and you may need to replace the battery  in near future and fuel consumption is also not good since the assisting time is low due to the low capacity in this IMA hybrid system.

Try to get a car at least over50% of usable capacity or you can ask the seller to reduce the price showing this scan results. Later you can use that saved money to replace the battery 

Edited August 12, 2018 by tbird

[tbird]

1 hour ago, Ranil... said:

Is this a good or bad battery? What r d standard avarage values required to be shown on used GP1 car?

75% of usable capacity is a very good value. Also check the owner has the maintenance records as well. 

[Ranil...]

Thank for u r advice... But I check with friends... As there knowledge and experience.. required 60- 70. As shown 54 is not enough.. pls recheck... SOC value... Is 54.. 

[matroska]

3 hours ago, Ranil... said:

Is this a good or bad battery? What r d standard avarage values required to be shown on used GP1 car?

This is a very good value. Most GP1s at this point are usually less than 50%.  You can use this car without any hybrid battery related headaches for a couple of years easily.

[vag2]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:20 PM, Ranil... said:

Thank for u r advice... But I check with friends... As there knowledge and experience.. required 60- 70. As shown 54 is not enough.. pls recheck... SOC value... Is 54.. 

SOC is just state of charge at this moment. So its 54% of the 75% AVAILABLE capacity. It can go from 0 to 100%(of the 75% available capacity) Another good thing is all cells showing similar voltage, pointing to uniform ageing.

BUT its a static measurement and doesn't say anything about the health of overall hybrid system. There are dynamic operation tests to check battery voltage in different operation modes(Engine only,Electric only and combined) and I doubt if anyone in Sri Lanka offers that,even the agents.

Edited August 14, 2018 by vag2
available capacity

[Ranil...]

3 hours ago, vag2 said:

SOC is just state of charge at this moment. So its 54% of the 75% original capacity. It can go from 0 to 100%(of the 75% available capacity) Another good thing is all cells showing similar voltage, pointing to uniform ageing.

BUT its a static measurement and doesn't say anything about the health of overall hybrid system. There are dynamic operation tests to check battery voltage in different operation modes(Engine only,Electric only and combined) and I doubt if anyone in Sri Lanka offers that,even the agents.

Thank u..

[Ranil...]

Just now, Ranil... said:

Thank u..

You mean this is good.. I can purchase this...

[Ranil...]

6 hours ago, matroska said:

This is a very good value. Most GP1s at this point are usually less than 50%.  You can use this car without any hybrid battery related headaches for a couple of years easily.

Thank you...

[matroska]

2 hours ago, Ranil... said:

Thank you...

Welcome and good luck with the purchase.

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by matroska

[gayanath]

15 hours ago, vag2 said:

SOC is just state of charge at this moment. So its 54% of the 75% original capacity. It can go from 0 to 100%(of the 75% available capacity) Another good thing is all cells showing similar voltage, pointing to uniform ageing.

As what I understood, Usable capacity not means the xx% of its original capacity. "Usable capacity" is the capacity which allowed by battery management program to use for operations. In other words, it determined by the allowed "Dept of Discharge" by the control program. So its a control program dependent value. So, both of above SOC or Usable capacity is not directly implies the battery ageing.

Sorry if I am wrong.......   

[ajm]

SOC is not an absolute value. Its a relative value with no more than 80% of  available capacity as max limit.

"Ageing" can happen in forms of

-Capacity fade (Loss of active Li+ions)

-Power fade (Impedance rise)

 

A good explanation using Nissan Leaf as an example.

It seems there is a Lawsuit against Nissan because the battery can loose more than 27% of its capacity EVERY year in a Hot climate(like Sri Lanka!)

[vag2]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 2:44 PM, gayanath said:

As what I understood, Usable capacity not means the xx% of its original capacity. "Usable capacity" is the capacity which allowed by battery management program to use for operations. In other words, it determined by the allowed "Dept of Discharge" by the control program. So its a control program dependent value. So, both of above SOC or Usable capacity is not directly implies the battery ageing.

Sorry if I am wrong.......   

thanks,corrected now.

WT* is "Dept of DISCHARGE" ? Could you post some pictures of it maybe?

@ajm more than 27% per year? so the Leaf failures are a global problem according to this video?

Edited August 14, 2018 by vag2

[Randeewa]

On 2/17/2018 at 9:04 PM, sira said:

Dear Friends

I'm hoping to buy this car and did the condition test. see the attached, will some one advice me how is the battery condition . this is 2011 Fid hybrit one

SOC - 72%

usable IMA battery capacity - 25%

 

 

 

Did you purchase this car.? I have heard most of reconditioned GP1 and Vezels have 40% to 50% Usable capacity (when the time register in Sri Lanka) so 7 years old GP1 definitely has half of that percentage. Then 25% usable capacity is normal for 2011 car right? (If previous owner didn't replace the battery). I think presently all GP1’a in that range with original battery. if anyone buy GP1 these days have to ready for battery replacement in near future.   

[Randeewa]

On 8/12/2018 at 8:01 PM, Ranil... said:

Is this a good or bad battery? What r d standard avarage values required to be shown on used GP1 car?

Is this GP1? Which year is it? This is excellent usable capacity. May be new battery installed

[noddy]

I have a GP1 I am the first owner. and in april i got the battery checked by Stafford and it gave 75%.

My car is used daily and it at home and at office it sits in a nice par park. 

so the 75% battery is good but if you park in the hot sunshine all the time the battery gets drained

 

[Ranil...]

5 hours ago, Randeewa said:

Is this GP1? Which year is it? This is excellent usable capacity. May be new battery installed

GP1.model of 2014, 

[sira]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:30 PM, Randeewa said:

Did you purchase this car.? I have heard most of reconditioned GP1 and Vezels have 40% to 50% Usable capacity (when the time register in Sri Lanka) so 7 years old GP1 definitely has half of that percentage. Then 25% usable capacity is normal for 2011 car right? (If previous owner didn't replace the battery). I think presently all GP1’a in that range with original battery. if anyone buy GP1 these days have to ready for battery replacement in near future.   

Yes

[matroska]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:30 PM, Randeewa said:

I think presently all GP1’a in that range with original battery.

Naah . I had a 6 year old GP1 with 75% on the battery (yes it was original) i think two other members here also posted they had similar usable capacity.  There are external factors that affect battery life so no not every GP1 out there is a battery failure waiting to happen. 

[vag2]

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by vag2

[ShaR]

I've heard that IMA battery usable capacity gets reset to 75% when the 12 battery terminals were disconnected. Have any of you heard of this or experienced this?

How much should we run (km) to get the battery's actual usable capacity?

[noddy]

when they checked the car battery condition i was there, and they did not even open the engine. Stafford guy did a scan under the steering wheel and kept the engine running.

there seems to be a lot of misleading information about hybrid cars but well looked after once have less trouble. 

 

[ShaR]

If you are the first owner, then you know the history of the car from the beginning. Then the values from the scanners are accurate. 

But if you are taking someone else’s car for scan with the intention of buying it, the situation is different. 

Battery terminals doesn’t have to be disconnected at the time of doing the scan or just before the scan.

Once terminals were disconnected, it will take some time for the vehicle to come up with actual values, about 1000km. ( as i’v heard)