Aqua hybrid battery replacement

[gayanath]

14 hours ago, Devinda_Z said:

(but i disagree about the air filter life span!? 

 

6 hours ago, iRage said:

Yeah..the air-filter....I think average life span of one is typically around 40,000km but would change drastically depending on how and where you use it. I know off-roaders who have to change their filters every 10-20K.

Toyota Aqua,

 

Toyota Raize

Both recommended 50,000 replacement for Engine  Air Cleaner 

Further, Aqua Owners manual says 50,000 km for normal and 25,000 km for Severe conditions. Until you use genuine parts as well as use the car in normal conditions, no harm going up to 50,000 km.

And one more technical thing. 

Air : fuel ratio is almost same for most petrol engines. So the quantity of air passing through the filter is almost related to the amount of fuel burn. More fuel efficiency means, less fuel burn.  

Car A - 12 km/l - Consumes X liters of fuel and Y liters of Air for Z km 

Car B - 18 km/l - Consumes P liters of fuel and Q liters of Air Z km

X = Z / 12  and P = Z / 18 , then Y / X = Q / P 

So, Y / Q = 18 / 12 = 1.5 that means Y = 1.5 Q

For same distance traveled, 1.5 times air passing through the air filter of Car A than Car B. Which means Car B air filter has more service millage. 

 

[ajm]

2 hours ago, gayanath said:

Both recommended 50,000 replacement for Engine  Air Cleaner

have you ever been to Japan? how can you say the Air quality and amount of Dust  has nothing to do with Airfilter service time and blindly apply the recommendations for a JDM vehicle being driven on Japanese roads? If you check the Airfilter for correct reassembly just a few hundred kmS after service, you will see a fair amount of dust and debris.

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by ajm

[gayanath]

24 minutes ago, ajm said:

have you ever been to Japan? how can you say the Air quality and amount of Dust  has nothing to do with Airfilter service time and blindly apply the recommendations for a JDM vehicle being driven on Japanese roads? If you check the Airfilter for correct reassembly just a few hundred kmS after service, you will see a fair amount of dust and debris.

Facts ........... 

 

[ajm]

10 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Facts ...........

Lol, you are basing your judgement on that  Airquality in colombo, Kandy etc is same as Tokyo. OSAKA. End of discussion, you have not been to Japan or any other developed country to experience the difference of Air Quality (not only Particles , also Duuvili/Dust). They sweep the roads every morning with big cleaning trucks, no vehicles above Euro4 standard are allowed to drive in streets where as most our diesel vehicles are not even Euro0 (dont even have an Lamda/O2 exhaust sensors)

Edited June 19, 2020 by ajm

[gayanath]

35 minutes ago, ajm said:

you have not been to Japan or any other developed country to experience the difference of Air Quality (not only Particles , also Duuvili/Dust). They sweep the roads every morning with big cleaning trucks, no vehicles above Euro4 standard are allowed to drive in streets where as most our diesel vehicles are not even Euro0 (dont even have an Lamda/O2 exhaust sensors)

Ha... ha...  you need my travel history?

Visited Tokyo, Osaka, Hiroshima, Takamatsu in Japan. Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Trichy (india), Amsterdam, London, Bergen (Norway), Paris, Zurich, Venice, Rome, etc. 

People telling things without knowing the truth. Sri Lanka in not such a bad country. Being a small county surrounded by Sea, we have several advantageous when we consider the air quality. Comparatively no above city air quality was far better than Colombo for me. 

Dust (Duuvili) is included to PM2.5 & PM10. So AQI covers all. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by gayanath

[ajm]

ලන්කාවෙ නම් දූවිල්ලත් සැපයි නේ . එයා ෆිල්ටර් බ්ලොක් වෙන්නෙත් නැහැ. හතිය,පිළිකා හැදෙන්නෙත් නැහැ.?

Edited June 19, 2020 by ajm

[iRage]

7 hours ago, indrajee said:

Irage, do Air filters last that long? I have to usually change mine around 15000 or so and whatever I had to put Ive put it from the agents. Expensive I know but gives me peace of mind. 

I'm amazed Gayanath's car still runs. If you don't clean the HV battery blower in time (around 5000 kms that is) the whole car will start giving trouble. Pulling power tends to reduce, the car revs more than usual and the fuel consumption goes down drastically. Even if you don't change the oil in time (5000) things kind of tend to go a bit offhand. Dunno...maybe the aqua is different. 

Depends on the use and the filter itself....my Corolla wagon which just reached 40,000km and is 21 years old has not had an air filter changed. Yes...it is still the stock air filter. In the RAV4 I had in Tanzania...I had it replaced in Japan before I exported it to TZ..that was at about 54,000 odd kms or so...just before I sold it I remember swapping it out (I bought one in Japan and carried it over along with some other consumables). Then the Fortuner in Vietnam..when I bought it it had 24,000km on it and had a airfilter that was dirty (had leaves and heavy dust) so had to swap it out...when I sold it a few months ago it had a bit over 49,000km the filter was pretty dusty (did not change it though....).

You really cannot compare Japanese service intervals to what is required in Sri Lanka. How the cars are driven and the environment is quite different. We do tend to use a lot more urban expressways/loop roads, etc...so the speeds and time sitting around idling...how the car brakes..are rather different in SL...lets not forget that we don't have any tuk tuks drivers to defend space against in JPN . Then there is also the strict emmisions requirements and monitoring of vehicles...so ..yeah...

In SL we have a lot more dust than in Japan. Hell I can go without washing the car for months and it would look nice and shiny. Quite the opposite in SL.

As for AQI readings....typical AQI reading are taken at 10 - 12 m heights off the ground. I was quite close to several sites in VN, including the one at my kids' school. Hanoi has one of the worst air qualities in the world (we are talking about 350++ n average). So as parents we had to monitor AQI quite close before sending the kids out. The issue was that even though the AQI readers showed the air quality within safe margins..the surface air was quite polluted. So..yeah....becareful about how you interpret AQI data as well. Yes...SL is a small island with wind currents...but also we have quie a lot more obstacles in city areas and that wind current pretty much gets obstructed or sent through higher altitudes whilst the dusty air just gets stuck in between. 

[gayanath]

18 hours ago, gayanath said:

Air : fuel ratio is almost same for most petrol engines. So the quantity of air passing through the filter is almost related to the amount of fuel burn. More fuel efficiency means, less fuel burn.  

Car A - 12 km/l - Consumes X liters of fuel and Y liters of Air for Z km 

Car B - 18 km/l - Consumes P liters of fuel and Q liters of Air Z km

X = Z / 12  and P = Z / 18 , then Y / X = Q / P 

So, Y / Q = 18 / 12 = 1.5 that means Y = 1.5 Q

For same distance traveled, 1.5 times air passing through the air filter of Car A than Car B. Which means Car B air filter has more service millage. 

@iRage Let's forget other things. Select (or Assume) two cars having same air filter and running same environment. 

Based on above simple calculation , Don't you feel "the vehicle having higher fuel economy should have higher air filter service life". ?

I practically observed this by several hybrids in SL (Aqua, Axio, & Prius). Will share photos later. 

 

[iRage]

8 minutes ago, gayanath said:

@iRage Let's forget other things. Select (or Assume) two cars having same air filter and running same environment. 

Based on above simple calculation , Don't you feel "the vehicle having higher fuel economy should have higher air filter service life". ?

I practically observed this by several hybrids in SL (Aqua, Axio, & Prius). Will share photos later. 

 

In a laboratory environment...yes...but I am missing your point ? Both cars being the same (same mileage everything...)the car that is doing better fuel economy has a decent filter does would not need changing now but one that is performing bad would have a bad filter and would need sooner replacement ? So...you were just agreeing with what we were saying ? Which is that filter life is dependent on where we use the car and how we use the car...thus the need to change the filter would depend on the status of the car and the component and for the most part the filter does not last as much as 40-50K under local (non-Japanese) conditions ? Sorry I might have missed a post or two as I did not even see your original post with calculations.

However...

You  are resorting to exactly what the manufacturers did in terms of reporting fuel figures. All things are not equal in the real world is it ? The hybrid's system's ability to power assist and its frequency of doing so...driving style..etc..change.  One of the biggest problems with the air filters of cars in Vietnam was the humidity....the damp air would tend to gunk up the filter quite easily as the moist air comes in...

I am pretty sure if you clean the air filter regularly...do not use the car regularly (there are those in SL who do not)..there are ways to extend the service life of the filter. Now..I say this every time someone brings up service statements in JDM vehicles..there is a lot that is done to vehicles in Japan under different maintenance requirements that the car does goes though a lot of pre-emptive actions in between all the service requirements that are indicated in the user manual.

[gayanath]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

So...you were just agreeing with what we were saying ? Which is that filter life is dependent on where we use the car and how we use the car...thus the need to change the filter would depend on the status of the car and the component and for the most part the filter does not last as much as 40-50K under local (non-Japanese) conditions ? 

Definitely... As a factual man, I should agree.  As you correctly said, everything is depend on several conditions with related to vehicle, driver, loading, environment, purpose of the use, etc. 

What I am going to pointed out always is, we cannot say things as just statements (as people saying). Those should be backed by technical evidence and justifications. 

2 hours ago, iRage said:

I am pretty sure if you clean the air filter regularly...do not use the car regularly (there are those in SL who do not)..there are ways to extend the service life of the filter. 

True... I am cleaning the air filter as necessary (I am normally doing it by myself for safe rather than let service guys to do it otherwise I have to replace my engine soon ??). That's why I could use it for 50,000 km in SL and replaced again with genuine part. It's not because of ලෝබ කම (otherwise I could use cheap air filter and replace more frequently) but I needed to check the reality of what people telling. I have clear evidence now. 

[indrajee]

These numbers rarely mean anything here!!!! Personal opinion!

[vag2]

I had to change my filter once a rat ate through it. Wonder if this possibility is included in  the calculations of this ?@gayanath

Edited June 20, 2020 by vag2

[HaeylM]

On 6/18/2020 at 8:54 AM, gayanath said:

 

Engine - I do around 9,000 km per six months so, regular oil and filter replacement is by 9,000 km with Toyota oil and Toyota/VIC filter (VIC filter would cost Rs. 1,100). Going to a normal service station will will save a lot. The Engine is running half of the time so Air Filter could used around 50,000 km without harm. Replacement labor cost would be Rs. 800 in Laugfs . 

Under washing - Only once per year (no point of under washing in every service)

Hybrid battery report - I never let them to plug scanner because it gives us nothing. Do battery report extend your battery lifetime?? ??For HV battery, the only thing I do is cleaning the air inlet once a year (DIY) and I cleaned the air duct and blower only once after 4 years (DIY)

12v Battery - Its bit expensive but it will payoff by extended duration 

Transaxle - Cheap to maintain than ordinary AT.

Other hybrid components - No maintenance. ** Fortunately my HV battery is still good (however, the amount needed for replacement already saved by Fuel) and ABS is still good too. 

Statistics, 

Fuel cost - Rs. 7.04 per km

Service & Maintenance and other Costs - Rs. 3.87 per km (Everything including tires. * Even a tire punch)

Revenue License and Insurance - Rs. 3.17  per km

 

Irrespective of the model of the car, you will ended up with huge maintenance cost if you are not going to correct place.  

 

Yo how the hell is ur car still running? surprised that your car displays the ready light everyday!

Dude hybrids have a lot more sophisticated than a normal petrol car,  Check the price difference at K****Park, A***Mi**j, A*W or TL. 

Firstly if u are indeed using the toyota recommended items, the oil itself costs around 8.5K minimum if u go for the cheapest(GTX), and if ur running the recommended 0w-20 or 5-30 Fully synthetic( Castrol edge/Magnatec etc), it costs close to 10K or more for a full oil change.

Add 1250 for the fuel filter. And then for the air filer that you're supposed to change at 35-40K another 1500 approx. (cant remember) (recommended by TL) 

Plus u cant take it to a regular hacksmith cuz u got a huge battery pack in the back so u gotta get someone who knows to check the battery fan and plug in their scanner to make sure that ur batteries are fine and are running at proper temperatures and voltages. This costs more.  BTW as your comment the battery report and car health report is not to extend its life but to know what your car needs atm,  the worst thing that can happen with an unpredictable battery is to go on a long distance business trip, stop the car at a coffee shop and not being able to start it back because you dont see the ready light or dont understand jack that is shown in the display. 

Usual full service comes down to around 18K including parts and lubricants 2 years back. (Sidenote: Hybrids need servicing more regularly than normal petrol cars so ur going to spend roughly this every few months depending on how much you use your car) 

Finally uve got tyres that cost close to 12K for a decent one that usually degrades at 45-50K. so 48K for all four R15 tyres. Continental is a little expensive than dunlop, Apollo is a little cheaper. 

Also an added side note, you might want to do a fuel filter change at least once u reach 90K, the fuel in sri lanka is not the best and often theres a lot of gunk there that might give u that subtle vibration when it switches to engine power and sluggish feel at 40KMH. Anyway not an expert here! 

Im not sure how u come up with 3.87 per KM for service charge tho! 

IMO it was not that profitable (Initial cost + running cost) compared to a petrol hatchback, Specially considering the depreciation and the maintenance cost, plus the inevitable battery replacement that costs around 390K.  

 

[Dee Jay]

@HaeylM well, I don't know about Toyota hybrids but, the servicing cost of a petrol and a hybrid is the same at the Honda agents and they don't do any fancy scans as you mentioned during the service. And the full service cost is around 13,000 LKR without including wheel alignment (around 2k) or air filter change (which costs 10k at the agents).

I know that Toyota hybrids need some attention to their battery cooling system cause of dust blocking the air vents sort of thing and that TL charge an additional 2,500 LKR over the normal service cost if cleaning is required. Apart from that there can be some oxidization in the battery terminals as well but would not need attention at every service I guess.

Hybrids usually do indicate if anything is wrong in the system and Honda hybrids give the usable battery capacity as a percentage when scanned via the correct software tool unlike Toyota hybrids. So, I don't think it is necessary to scan your system each and every service. Some service stations tend to take the owners for a ride as well highlighting the complexity of this and that. If you really fear about any errors you can get a OBD scanner and do some regular scanning to make sure there are no errors.

Tyres cost the same irrespective of being a hybrid or a petrol. The cost will depend on the brand and the size profile and the fuel filter, spark plugs and each and every other routine maintenance applies irrespective of being a petrol or a hybrid.

However, I do agree that second hand market prices and battery replacement costs would make hybrids unattractive to a typical car buyer. However, the maintenance is not as high as you mentioned above cause I've owned a 2nd hand hybrid for over 4 years and that's my experience (this might vary with the brand and the model).

But, the reality is the world is moving towards electrification of vehicles and the hybrids are an inter state till EVs are perfected. Even petrol engines are being down sized and turbo charged as a consequence of this trend.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by Dee Jay
spelling mistake

[gayanath]

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Yo how the hell is ur car still running? surprised that your car displays the ready light everyday!

Do not under estimate..... I m doing my services perfectly at right time (but never do unnecessary things) 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Dude hybrids have a lot more sophisticated than a normal petrol car,  Check the price difference at K****Park, A***Mi**j, A*W or TL. 

A story fabricated by poor service guys..... ?. 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Firstly if u are indeed using the toyota recommended items, the oil itself costs around 8.5K minimum if u go for the cheapest(GTX), and if ur running the recommended 0w-20 or 5-30 Fully synthetic( Castrol edge/Magnatec etc), it costs close to 10K or more for a full oil change. Add 1250 for the fuel filter. And then for the air filer that you're supposed to change at 35-40K another 1500 approx. (cant remember) (recommended by TL) 

Engine oil - Toyota 0W20 - 1st can - Rs. 4,800 (2015), Last Can - Rs. 6,325 (2020)

Oil Filter - Rs. 1,030 to 1,980 Depend on Toyota or VIC

Air Filter - Toyota - Rs. 3,650, 

Cabin Filter - VIC Rs. 2,800 - 3,600 (You can use 3 VIC's for Toyota cost) 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Plus u cant take it to a regular hacksmith cuz u got a huge battery pack in the back so u gotta get someone who knows to check the battery fan and plug in their scanner to make sure that ur batteries are fine and are running at proper temperatures and voltages. This costs more. 

Just rubbish... The car itself giving the warning (check engine ) if such. Why you pay for it???

 Fan inlet cleaning is nothing for anyone who is having a vacuum cleaner. 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

BTW as your comment the battery report and car health report is not to extend its life but to know what your car needs atm,  the worst thing that can happen with an unpredictable battery is to go on a long distance business trip, stop the car at a coffee shop and not being able to start it back because you dont see the ready light or dont understand jack that is shown in the display. 

You are wrong....

HV battery - you could run the car even with check engine. Safe mode runs with 100% engine so fuel efficiency will drop, but car runs safely so could come home easily. (Believe me, two known cars still running with HV battery fault since 1.5  years and 11 months) 

12v battery - same with another automatic car. Jump start is possible and no harm 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

(Sidenote: Hybrids need servicing more regularly than normal petrol cars so ur going to spend roughly this every few months depending on how much you use your car) 

Again..... A fabricated story. Opposite is the truth. 

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Finally uve got tyres that cost close to 12K for a decent one that usually degrades at 45-50K. so 48K for all four R15 tyres. Continental is a little expensive than dunlop, Apollo is a little cheaper. 

The first set of tires cost me Rs. 60,000 (Bridgestone - EP300). Still running with

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

Im not sure how u come up with 3.87 per KM for service charge tho! 

Everything is written (as a research and as for fun..... That's why I could answer for you guys ??? )  

8 hours ago, HaeylM said:

IMO it was not that profitable (Initial cost + running cost) compared to a petrol hatchback, Specially considering the depreciation and the maintenance cost, plus the inevitable battery replacement that costs around 390K.  

Buy cheap (Car cost + battery cost 285 k), use cheap and sell cheap ......  No difference

but you could use bit new car + touch the technology

[ajm]

3 hours ago, gayanath said:

The car itself giving the warning (check engine ) if such. Why you pay for it??

not all Faults trigger Check Engine, it is important to do a proper scan which can identify problems for preventive maintenance.

3 hours ago, gayanath said:

HV battery - you could run the car even with check engine. Safe mode runs with 100% engine so fuel efficiency will drop, but car runs safely so could come home easily.

Oh boy, if you were a Toyota Engineer giving such kind of "Advice" on internet, they would have immediately fire you from the Job and no one else will hire you after that (permanent blacklisted) except for Janitor jobs.

Thank god you are a Sri Lankan Engineer with no morals.

[gayanath]

58 minutes ago, ajm said:

not all Faults trigger Check Engine, it is important to do a proper scan which can identify problems for preventive maintenance.

Could you name few examples ?  (I mean the things you could identify by scan for preventive actions before triggering check engine)

* BTW, actually there are some parameters giving some indications, but those service guy's (who scan the cars in SL) don't know about them.?

Quote

Oh boy, if you were a Toyota Engineer giving such kind of "Advice" on internet, they would have immediately fire you from the Job and no one else will hire you after that (permanent blacklisted) except for Janitor jobs.

Reply is only for the particular matter he raised related to HV battery (I clearly mentioned "HV battery" first). HV battery issue will pop up check engine (nothing like "don't see ready light") but the car is safe with all other systems functioning properly. Toyota could have been made the car as un drivable (no "ready" mode) with HV battery fault if necessary, but they made this drivable. So my friend........ Toyota design engineers should immediately fire from the Job and no one else should hire them after that (permanent blacklisted) except for Janitor jobs before me. Isn't it? ??

The reply is not related to any other issues. (not because of this being a law class, I didn't mention the exceptions  ??? ). The cars running with HV Battery issues are facts, but do I recommended ?? 

Anyway, do you know how many Toyota Hybrids (specially Aqua, Axio and Prius) are running on SL roads with HV battery faults?

We should know the reality as well .........

Edited June 22, 2020 by gayanath

[iRage]

This is one of those rare occasions I am actually agreeing with @gayanath...servicing and costs associated with it have been completely blown out of proportion in Sri Lanka mostly by service station operators. They are literally a mafia by themselves and it is because of them and the cheap parts suppliers that has held back this particular side of the industry for ages. Cars are not that fickle even when it is loaded with tech.

Figuring out the Hybrid system status in a Toyota does not require processes that need space age technology. If the car is showing errors..do a scan...heck..do a scan anyway...(for the life of me I cannot imagine why plugging in a scanner costs so much in SL...in Vietnam, East Timor and Malawi the agent plug in scanners for the heck of it..for nothing as well !). I know a poor guy who had to pay 7500LKR to get a sensor on his front bumper and another one behind the grill emblem cleaned off mud. WTH ??? 

About not all errors trigger check lights....used to be true...but with newer systems all the critical components do trigger check lights. If something is causing a system to start going bad..then regular checkups might detect it and fix it before the check lights go on. Again..cars are not that fickle that the check engine light goes off as soon as something goes slightly out of the stock calibration.

Yes...cleaning the Hybrid system's vent is not that complicated. As long as the vents are cleaned it will do just fine until an annual check or something of the sort (Japanese cars are subject to an annual maintenance check hich is semi-legal..and this checks all these).

Let's not even get in to the whole big deal of washing the under carriage ! Geez...not rocket science !

Then there is the whole Toyota/Nissan/Honda oil. None of these manufacturers make oil. They buy it from other suppliers. But car owners are told otherwise. But then you cannot blame the owners as well because the parts suppliers just bring in all kinds of fake and cheap ##@@! Manufacturer's parts are not the best that is out there for the car....

Anyway...done with my rant....

Edited June 22, 2020 by iRage

[ajm]

3 hours ago, gayanath said:

Could you name few examples ?  (I mean the things you could identify by scan for preventive actions before triggering check engine)

Basic SW knowledge.

A proper scan Reads the ROM,  with live Frames can even read the RAM.

Therefore you can see errors that are not yet confirmed as leading to a unhealable system failure (Check Engine Light).

Before a Check Engine error is shown to the driver, many real-time errors discovered while driving are filtered/debounced. But it doesn't mean these Errors are not important, they are indicators of a disaster waiting to happen.

for most raw-errors the steps before showing a Check Engine Light are as follows.

IC detects Hardware Error -> HW-filter -> Error Debouncing (event Counter and Time-based) -> Writein RAM -> Write in ROM at end of driving cycle -> same error detected in n (=3 usually) driving cycles -> illuminate Check Engine Light

So saying that its OKAY to drive with check Engine light ON is wrong and unsafe. As an Engineer you should discourage people from doing so, its even an illegal state to drive  in US,EU and Japan(like drunk driving).

Edited June 22, 2020 by ajm

[HaeylM]

Hehe @gayanath you seem to be on top of this topic so i guess ur experiences on owning the car for a long time has given u the insights to maintain it on the dot. Eitherway, ill keep in mind the next time i plan on switching cars to keep my eye out!

But i gotta disagree with some stuff u said,  Unless u have faced a situation where you are on a hard day of work back home past 10 and your car suddenly start to go to limp mode and dies off under 10 KM from its warning time, you might not know what im talking about. Being stranded on the side of the road of A1 and having no way to abandon the car for the night because of the guys who keep stealing headlights or mirrors, and then again if you're unlucky to have that happen on a weekend and AA saying that they are unable to tow it back to colombo or to pay a hefty sum. Id rather have my car being reliable and trustworthy than run it the way it can with the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree. Spending a few extra bucks to make sure your car is in good shape makes it better for me and anyone who buys it after me can have a peace of mind knowing that I didn't abuse it. 

 

Also about running on a dead HV battery, Not sure how your friends did it but the fact is that only certain cells die off in the battery pack so you end up having an uneven voltage across the pack. The HV system will indicate this as an error but will keep trying to run on the battery from time to time. In a friend's prius with a dead battery, where the car will start up and run for a few km then die, it will restart after a while and then run then die, Sounds fun huh! . Anyway not an expert so  there might be ways to work around this. 

On 6/22/2020 at 10:59 AM, gayanath said:

 

Just rubbish... The car itself giving the warning (check engine ) if such. Why you pay for it???

 

HV battery - you could run the car even with check engine. Safe mode runs with 100% engine so fuel efficiency will drop, but car runs safely so could come home easily. (Believe me, two known cars still running with HV battery fault since 1.5  years and 11 months) 

Buy cheap (Car cost + battery cost 285 k), use cheap and sell cheap ......  No difference

but you could use bit new car + touch the technology

Final point of buying cheap, well for the cost of used aqua (2012-14) there are hundreds of new or recond hybrid kei cars (2018 +) that does a little under 15KMPL in the city and 24 outstation and these come with KOBE or Sterling. The hybrid battery in these are a lot cheaper and depreciation wise i guess it is not that different.  

[gayanath]

On 6/22/2020 at 4:43 PM, ajm said:

Basic SW knowledge.

A proper scan Reads the ROM,  with live Frames can even read the RAM.

Therefore you can see errors that are not yet confirmed as leading to a unhealable system failure (Check Engine Light).

Before a Check Engine error is shown to the driver, many real-time errors discovered while driving are filtered/debounced. But it doesn't mean these Errors are not important, they are indicators of a disaster waiting to happen.

for most raw-errors the steps before showing a Check Engine Light are as follows.

IC detects Hardware Error -> HW-filter -> Error Debouncing (event Counter and Time-based) -> Writein RAM -> Write in ROM at end of driving cycle -> same error detected in n (=3 usually) driving cycles -> illuminate Check Engine Light

Reply is already above. 

Quote: 

* BTW, actually there are some parameters giving some indications, but those service guy's (who scan your car in SL) don't know about them.?

..unquote. 

So, 99% scans will not add value for you because they don't know how to interpret results. They will tell you no issue in your car until you get a error code. 

Quote

So saying that its OKAY to drive with check Engine light ON is wrong and unsafe. As an Engineer you should discourage people from doing so, its even an illegal state to drive  in US,EU and Japan(like drunk driving).

Theoretically and technically, yes you are correct and 100% agreed with you.....  But we should know the context where we are. 

We are in SL. Cost matters for everyone except few people.  

1. 90% of us repair cars with used parts or cheap spares. Manufactures not recommending it but we are doing.  

2. 95% garages are technically not suitable to do repairs due to not availability of qualified persons and tools and equipment. Even you have no guarantee that your brake system (which is extremely critical safety system) repaired correctly and durably by the bassunnahe (until you are a guy having the knowledge). But it's happening here... 

3. See how many heavy vehicles (ex: sand trucks) running on the road without signal lights, brake lights, and zero treads on tires.  

Above should not be excuses in safe world but, withing the context we are living, we should be practical as well. If we are living in US, EU or Japan we never buy used cars. Isn't it. (even we do not have warranty, no responsible agent for our cars because we purchased them as reconditioned)

For this particular as well as specific case (I mean HV battery fault), we have not yet identified any safety issue or technical issue by running with the fault. All safety systems as well as all other systems are working well. And car will not die by 10km as  @HaeylM suggested. 

Anyway, this not means you should not repair the or replace HV battery.  Definitely you should do the repair, but you will never being stranded on the side of the road. @HaeylM

Edited June 25, 2020 by gayanath

[ajm]

8 hours ago, gayanath said:

If we are living in US, EU or Japan we never buy used cars. Isn't it.

of course they do. New cars are bought only by Taxi,Rentacar and Other Fleet operators.

Roadworthy certifications are not issued even for a 20 year old vehicle with a single  Dashboard warning light ON,  a Check Engine Light is a big No NO..

Basically a Prius with Check Engine light is useless and cant even be sold.

So you are saying  the people who design and build these Cars should change these safety rules, because some Smarta$$es in Sri Lanka have invented that they can drive with the Check engine Lights ON?

?

Edited June 25, 2020 by ajm

[vag2]

On 6/24/2020 at 10:45 PM, HaeylM said:

only certain cells die off in the battery pack so you end up having an uneven voltage

True, the cell balancing circuits will go nuts trying to balance the different voltages and may even get destroyed putting the cell at risk of a thermal runaway!

On 6/24/2020 at 10:45 PM, HaeylM said:

a friend's prius with a dead battery, where the car will start up and run for a few km then die, it will restart after a while and then run then die, Sounds fun huh!

Also max limit of around 1500RPm must have been during limp mode.

 

On 6/24/2020 at 10:45 PM, HaeylM said:

. Id rather have my car being reliable and trustworthy than run it the way it can with the dashboard lit up like a Christmas tree

Spot on! This is called preventive maintenance which is recommended by proper engineers who designed it. 

Speaking of dashboard lights, I wonder if  @gayanath would be kind enough to share a photo of his.

(I know it's like asking a Maradana hooker to put a photo of her lady parts)

[iRage]

19 hours ago, gayanath said:

 If we are living in US, EU or Japan we never buy used cars. Isn't it. (even we do not have warranty, no responsible agent for our cars because we purchased them as reconditioned)

 

Not true at all...having lived in all three of these countries/regions I can quite safely say that there are plenty of people who buy used cars. I am not talking about the high-school/college student crowd either..there are plenty of professionals who buy used cars. The difference is they might not buy ars that are 20+ years old. It costs too much to keep them running.

As for the statement about the check engine light on....in the old days of the Doctor Sunny and AE100 Carolla days...yes...you could run the car with the check engine light on just after doing some makabaas fix up job (which is why Sri Lankans still salvate for these models). However..modern cars (even the Japanese ones) do go in to a limp mode. Now...the check/maintenance warning lights in modern cars come on for a whole host of additional reasons than it did in old cars. Depending on the the reason why it popped up the car would be in a more usable state for some errors than it would be for others. The issue is as a normal user there is no way for them to know this (albeit...some cars would have some rather cryptic error messages pop up on a display).

 

[gayanath]

13 hours ago, ajm said:

of course they do. New cars are bought only by Taxi,Rentacar and Other Fleet operators

 

2 hours ago, iRage said:

Not true at all...

Don't take just the meaning of my statement like a grade 5 scholarship guy ......? (තරහින් නෙමෙයි කිව්වේ ...... ?)

What I mean by used car is the car imported to the country as used cars (reconditioned status) where we have no agent responsible for them.

Eg: I imported my car 0 millage - brand new in condition but reconditioned in status - Just because it didn't came through the agents,  no one take care of it. And its not rational to expect same care from the agent as well, bec we are the culprits not the agent -  So, if anything fails premature, I have no option other than going for cheap fix (Probably I may not go for a cheap fix but 95% will do it. That's the reality).