1968 Datsun 510 Sedan (Project Datto)

kmeeg · September 28, 2014

On 9/27/2014 at 5:57 AM, Komisiripala said:
here's some more recent photos courtesy of kelum_wj.

dat a$$

Looking very good Komi. Wish it will complete soon and post some rocking photos.. Of cause thanks to Kelum for taking good photos. I talked to him sometime back for some advise with HID and Led lights. Very helpful person..

KMeeg.

Crosswind · September 28, 2014

On 9/28/2014 at 1:35 AM, Supra_Natural said:
In the spirit of keeping things Civil, I have to ask, have you two chaps considered that the stuff that's on the car might be primer (or a coat of paint put on to check the imperfections?). I ask because it occurred to me that it could well be, though it looks like a coat of filler from the photos. There is a possibility, isn't there?

Well... common sense tells me that, if that was the case, Komi would have said so a dozen posts back...

Watchman · September 28, 2014

On 9/28/2014 at 1:35 AM, Supra_Natural said:
In the spirit of keeping things Civil, I have to ask, have you two chaps considered that the stuff that's on the car might be primer (or a coat of paint put on to check the imperfections?). I ask because it occurred to me that it could well be, though it looks like a coat of filler from the photos. There is a possibility, isn't there?

MD addressed the question about the entire body being covered in cataloy. MY point about the groove being carved into cataloy is yet to be addressed.

Supra_Natural · September 28, 2014

On 9/28/2014 at 5:09 AM, Watchman said:
MD addressed the question about the entire body being covered in cataloy. MY point about the groove being carved into cataloy is yet to be addressed.

If you look closely at the first picture of the two posts you've quoted in your previous reply, the grooved area is there in the bare metal as well.

esdeez · September 28, 2014

Might be a bit OT, but as we're on the subject of painting etc, I was wondering how important a spray booth is in repainting a car, or even painting a damaged section.

Disclaimer: This question comes out of pure ignorance

MasterDon · September 28, 2014

esdeez said:
Might be a bit OT, but as we're on the subject of painting etc, I was wondering how important a spray booth is in repainting a car, or even painting a damaged section.
Disclaimer: This question comes out of pure ignorance

I'd say there is a definite advantage with a booth than without.I've seen paintjobs done by the same painter,using same brands and materials both in and out of a booth.The booth painted car always has a better finish.As Niranjan mentioned the active prevention of dust particles,then the whole cooking process and the controled environment somehow seems bring out the best out of modern paints.Anyway that's just personal my experience gained from doing my cars and I don't really understand the science behind it,maybe a more learned member can explain better.

So even if you cannot afford to do the whole paint process in a booth it's worth to atleast do the 'final' in one...BUT make sure it's a proper one and not a bastardized Pocahontas' wigwam like Komi's so called "paint booth".

The use of a booth doesn't guarentee a concourse level paintjob.The painters skill still matters a lot,and the quality of the materials and how they're used.

Watchman · September 28, 2014

On 9/28/2014 at 6:43 AM, Supra_Natural said:
If you look closely at the first picture of the two posts you've quoted in your previous reply, the grooved area is there in the bare metal as well.

You seem to getting into very knitty gritty matters on this topic. So, before we continue, is it correct to understand that you're participating in this discussion as a member and not a moderator?

Last time a moderator's feelings were hurt big-boss had to step in and calm stuff down.

And as for the the workmanship, yes you see the bare metal in the 1st pic where the groove is achieved by carving about 3-4 milimiters into the cataloy. Bravo!

Supra_Natural · September 29, 2014

On 9/28/2014 at 3:09 PM, Watchman said:
You seem to getting into very knitty gritty matters on this topic. So, before we continue, is it correct to understand that you're participating in this discussion as a member and not a moderator?
Last time a moderator's feelings were hurt big-boss had to step in and calm stuff down.

And as for the the workmanship, yes you see the bare metal in the 1st pic where the groove is achieved by carving about 3-4 milimiters into the cataloy. Bravo!

Pardon me? Who was it who started talking about the groove where the bumper is supposed to sit? I don't recall it being me who started the discussion.

This was the picture I meant when I said first picture you quoted. As you can see, the groove for the bumper exists there as well and it is quite plain that what you see there is bare metal.

As for your second question, I don't think I can make a distinction that says I am responding as one or the other I'm afraid. It is a moderators responsibility to ensure all threads stay civil (which I will be doing) and at the same time there is no restriction barring me from taking part in the general discussion as far as I'm aware.

Anyway regardless of what you may imagine machan no feelings were hurt by the last bit of trolling on this thread, its just that big boss decided that the antagonism had gone far enough. He checks in far more often than we realize, though he rarely posts.

Bottom line is, If you feel that you absolutely MUST continue to express your views on this thread then please go ahead, but do try to avoid taking digs at the OP or his choices in the build, point out mistakes if you see them but PLEASE do keep it civil. In the end it's his car and his choices and ultimately his build.

Watchman · September 29, 2014

On 9/29/2014 at 3:39 AM, Supra_Natural said:

Pardon me? Who was it who started talking about the groove where the bumper is supposed to sit? I don't recall it being me who started the discussion.

This was the picture I meant when I said first picture you quoted. As you can see, the groove for the bumper exists there as well and it is quite plain that what you see there is bare metal.

As for your second question, I don't think I can make a distinction that says I am responding as one or the other I'm afraid. It is a moderators responsibility to ensure all threads stay civil (which I will be doing) and at the same time there is no restriction barring me from taking part in the general discussion as far as I'm aware.

Anyway regardless of what you may imagine machan no feelings were hurt by the last bit of trolling on this thread, its just that big boss decided that the antagonism had gone far enough. He checks in far more often than we realize, though he rarely posts.

Bottom line is, If you feel that you absolutely MUST continue to express your views on this thread then please go ahead, but do try to avoid taking digs at the OP or his choices in the build, point out mistakes if you see them but PLEASE do keep it civil. In the end it's his car and his choices and ultimately his build.

Sorry for the confusion. I meant that to get into a discussion on such a intricate matter such as how a groove was shaped in the capacity of a modarator would be excessive. But as a restoration fan, yes that makes sense. So it was better to clarify your capacity before going further. The last time a modarator jumped in to defend the tinker he had other undisclosed motives for it.

And please don't generalize everyone who has the same opinion. Though there have been 'some' uncultured and uncivilized name calling, the watchman has always kept it civil. If there is an example to the contrary please point it out and watchman willll apologize for it.

Anyway, yes that's the photo i was referring to. In it you see that the lower level is the bare-metal whereas the higher level is a 3-4mm thick layer of cataloy. Now give me your honest opinion? Do you think THAT is the best way to achieve the groove? Wouldn't a good workman achieve this groove by shaping the metal itself? If this is answered we can put this issue to rest.

Supra_Natural · September 29, 2014

On 9/29/2014 at 4:01 AM, Watchman said:
Sorry for the confusion. I meant that to get into a discussion on such a intricate matter such as how a groove was shaped in the capacity of a modarator would be excessive. But as a restoration fan, yes that makes sense. So it was better to clarify your capacity before going further. The last time a modarator jumped in to defend the tinker he had other undisclosed motives for it.
And please don't generalize everyone who has the same opinion. Though there have been 'some' uncultured and uncivilized name calling, the watchman has always kept it civil. If there is an example to the contrary please point it out and watchman willll apologize for it.

Anyway, yes that's the photo i was referring to. In it you see that the lower level is the bare-metal whereas the higher level is a 3-4mm thick layer of cataloy. Now give me your honest opinion? Do you think THAT is the best way to achieve the groove? Wouldn't a good workman achieve this groove by shaping the metal itself? If this is answered we can put this issue to rest.

We may have been looking at the same picture but I believe we were talking about two different areas. I was referring to the rear end below the tail lights and the distinctive "Ledge" like section that the bumper fits onto. I believe you were referring to the side of the car and the groove there? If that is the case then I see your point, based on this picture it certainly looks like the groove was cut into the filler with bare metal below.

But it's a bit tough to be certain based on the picture so the only way to answer the question for sure is to actually go and see the car, something I actually want to do anyway because I'm keen to see the progress of it. So what say we hold off making a judgement until that happens perhaps this coming weekend? I can honestly say I am a neutral observer on the matter and I'd like to think I can be honest on what I see.

Watchman · September 29, 2014

Here you go:

The green arrow shows the thick layer of cataloy while the blue arrow shows the bare metal.

Now my question (again):

Do you think THAT is the best way to achieve the groove? Wouldn't a good workman achieve this groove by shaping the metal itself?

Supra_Natural · September 29, 2014

On 9/29/2014 at 4:50 AM, Watchman said:
Here you go:

The green arrow shows the thick layer of cataloy while the blue arrow shows the bare metal.

Now my question (again):

Do you think THAT is the best way to achieve the groove? Wouldn't a good workman achieve this groove by shaping the metal itself?

Picture won't load. Like I said above, if it is indeed filler then that isn't the best way to do it. So once again, how about we hold off on the critique until someone goes and sees the work?

MasterDon · September 29, 2014

Supra,You know I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions,both as a motoring journalist and as one of my dearest friends,but forgive if I don't readily accept your conclusions from this fact finding mission you're going to do for us this weekend...As you know know I speak from years of first hand experience and no one is going convince me all that thick yellow stuff on the car's body "is just primer and guide coat" or the yellow dust on the floor is magic pixie droppings and not sanded filler.

Please look at the pics WM is quoting and the ones that were uploaded earlier.The stuff is so thickly used it's already cracking, crumbling.Makabaases feeding bull to car owners is nothing new but I'm amazed OP is still swallowing and spreading the the said excrement quite willingly on the forum...So untill this continues I will keep posting.

Supra_Natural · September 29, 2014

On 9/29/2014 at 5:33 AM, MasterDon said:
Supra,You know I have the utmost respect for you and your opinions,both as a motoring journalist and as one of my dearest friends,but forgive if I don't readily accept your conclusions from this fact finding mission you're going to do for us this weekend...As you know know I speak from years of first hand experience and no one is going convince me all that thick yellow stuff on the car's body "is just primer and guide coat" or the yellow dust on the floor is magic pixie droppings and not sanded filler.
Please look at the pics WM is quoting and the ones that were uploaded earlier.The stuff is so thickly used it's already cracking, crumbling.Makabaases feeding bull to car owners is nothing new but I'm amazed OP is still swallowing and spreading the the said excrement quite willingly on the forum...So untill this continues I will keep posting.

Ado, are you saying you don't believe what I say? tsk tsk

Wouldn't expect you or anyone else to merely take my word for it of course, so I'll try and take pics as well though by that stage the car will likely be totally primered over.

I haven't got anywhere near your level of experience with bodywork restos so I'd merely be observing and reporting on what's there, but I do hope I can tell the difference between primer and filler/cataloy.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Supra_Natural

JadeyBlitzen · September 30, 2014

Guys this is very disappointing. I know everyones posting with their best intentions. But I feel that this car and this thread deserve better.

First of all this is one of the better known 510s in the country and has very good potential. Komi has been humble enough to just name this thread a project. But I'm seeing words like restoration and restmod being thrown in too many times by others. When judging from the bodywork, it clearly is neither.

When you are dealing with a relatively older car especially one that's been driven around for the past few years and has a 5 or 6 figure pricetag the bodywork will be really shoddy. because the older and cheaper a car gets the less is the need to spend money on the car for the average motorist, any dents or rust tend to get covered completely in filler by the cheapest garage, cos why spend so much on a cheap car?

Its when a real enthusiast gets hold of the car that it becomes a real headache. because now the filler needs to be removed and sections need to be done from scratch. For this you can't depend on any garage that deals with modern cars or old beaters run by budget minded people. You need someone passionate, someone who's got some experience on such projects and very good tinkering and painting skills. Not someone who can complete a job at a cost within a certain time limit.

The work done the rear end of the 510 is definitely substandard. I mean just look at that rear valance. That rectangular 'groove' is actually suppose to be a seam where the rear valance is attached to the rest of the bodywork. But if you look near the exhaust you can see its been completely filled the filler up to height of the seam.

This is what the rear valance seam should look like.

See how the seam stands out?

And as WM pointed out the entire rear quarter panel, or at east where it meets the bumper is completely turned out from filler. So our observations could just be the tip of the iceberg. It wont take that long for a slight flexing of the nearly 50 year old body to send hairline cracks all over the paintjob when its on the road. Since the car is being done up for such a long time why not do it right the first time?

There was a time I couldn't tell the difference between a good paintjob and a bad paintjob. When a panel is badly repaired. But after spending the past few years in the garage I can spot a bad job from miles away. My point is we can all learn. If you could get a few pics like this off the net and show them to your tinker/painter I'm sure he could do a much a better job. But ultimately you need to know a good job from a bad one. I'm sorry to say this, but the work being done right now is no better than what the previous owners did. So either find a better guy or get this fellow to do a better job, and most importantly learn how to spot bad bodywork. Like I said this car has a lot of potential so its a shame to treat it like this. Also a good job will take time and its not always good to put pressure on the guys.

I would also like to point out the mods, ignoring the obvious biases or should I say conflict of interest, there are thousands of people in this forum and they look up to you as very knowledgeable people when it comes to motoring. However when you dismiss valid points made by senior and quite credible members in here, even if their approach isn't very good, it could mislead others into thinking that these bad practices mentioned are acceptable.

Just my two cents.

GayanR · September 30, 2014

I just saw this for sale

http://www.autolanka.com/ad.asp?ID=164897

The Don · September 30, 2014

On 9/30/2014 at 5:57 AM, GayanR said:
I just saw this for sale
http://www.autolanka.com/ad.asp?ID=164897

Funny because he first put up for sale, then withdrew and now up for sale again. I think possibly to fund another project.

MasterDon · September 30, 2014

Supra_Natural said:

Ado, are you saying you don't believe what I say? tsk tsk

Goodness no

All I ask is to look at the evidence available now,because it's very possible they might try to cover them up for your visit and put on a 'show' for you...kinda like how the government put walls around our slums in Colombo for CHOGM.

For example see the below pic...A maximum size Appoloy yellow Super Cut bucket can be seen along with sand paper and sanding blocks....And in the pictures that follow the rear and the sides have mysteriously turned yellow and there is lot of yellow dust on the floor...And you say it might be just primer or guide coat(FYI most primer types available in SL are either orange or grey.).Forgive me if I sound like an arrogant prick but the validity of my posts is being questioned here.I'm quite able to recognize what is Cataloy or not from just the texture and colour.

Edited September 30, 2014 by MasterDon

The Don · September 30, 2014

On 9/30/2014 at 3:56 AM, JadeyBlitzen said:
Guys this is very disappointing. I know everyones posting with their best intentions. But I feel that this car and this thread deserve better.
First of all this is one of the better known 510s in the country and has very good potential. Komi has been humble enough to just name this thread a project. But I'm seeing words like restoration and restmod being thrown in too many times by others. When judging from the bodywork, it clearly is neither.

When you are dealing with a relatively older car especially one that's been driven around for the past few years and has a 5 or 6 figure pricetag the bodywork will be really shoddy. because the older and cheaper a car gets the less is the need to spend money on the car for the average motorist, any dents or rust tend to get covered completely in filler by the cheapest garage, cos why spend so much on a cheap car?

Its when a real enthusiast gets hold of the car that it becomes a real headache. because now the filler needs to be removed and sections need to be done from scratch. For this you can't depend on any garage that deals with modern cars or old beaters run by budget minded people. You need someone passionate, someone who's got some experience on such projects and very good tinkering and painting skills. Not someone who can complete a job at a cost within a certain time limit.

The work done the rear end of the 510 is definitely substandard. I mean just look at that rear valance. That rectangular 'groove' is actually suppose to be a seam where the rear valance is attached to the rest of the bodywork. But if you look near the exhaust you can see its been completely filled the filler up to height of the seam.

This is what the rear valance seam should look like.

See how the seam stands out?

And as WM pointed out the entire rear quarter panel, or at east where it meets the bumper is completely turned out from filler. So our observations could just be the tip of the iceberg. It wont take that long for a slight flexing of the nearly 50 year old body to send hairline cracks all over the paintjob when its on the road. Since the car is being done up for such a long time why not do it right the first time?

There was a time I couldn't tell the difference between a good paintjob and a bad paintjob. When a panel is badly repaired. But after spending the past few years in the garage I can spot a bad job from miles away. My point is we can all learn. If you could get a few pics like this off the net and show them to your tinker/painter I'm sure he could do a much a better job. But ultimately you need to know a good job from a bad one. I'm sorry to say this, but the work being done right now is no better than what the previous owners did. So either find a better guy or get this fellow to do a better job, and most importantly learn how to spot bad bodywork. Like I said this car has a lot of potential so its a shame to treat it like this. Also a good job will take time and its not always good to put pressure on the guys.

I would also like to point out the mods, ignoring the obvious biases or should I say conflict of interest, there are thousands of people in this forum and they look up to you as very knowledgeable people when it comes to motoring. However when you dismiss valid points made by senior and quite credible members in here, even if their approach isn't very good, it could mislead others into thinking that these bad practices mentioned are acceptable.

Just my two cents.

Jadey, your points are interesting and valid, but sadly I suffer from images from being blocked at work so I actually have not seen any of the images in question, plus images can be a bit misleading at times.

Only Komi can really offer feedback on your observations so I won't get into that, but needless to say he has the exact same interests as getting the best possible job done.

But on the point of Mod biases, obviously there are 3 mods, so the biases are very balanced. So I don't particularly think there was an issue on this occasion.

I think most members in the forum are old, wise and humble enough to take constructive criticism as you have offered. Our objective as mods is simply to keep the topics relevant, prevent personal attacks, and to encourage the rest of the community to post as well. As a community I think we benefit from the good work, but also the mistakes of our members as it provides an opportunity to learn and improve our own knowledge, so we try to encourage them to discuss these issues openly in a civilised manner. Else what happens is people do not post for fear of being attacked and ridiculed, and nobody gains from that either.

I do not think anybody gains from sub standard work.

Komisiripala · September 30, 2014

let me clarify a few things here:

1. the reason i kept quiet is simply because i didn't want to validate bullying. there is a nice way to ask something. and then you have MD and watchman. i simply chose not to reply since there's a nicer way to ask something than the way in these two, mostly MD went about things. and the initial apathy of the moderators towards this initial attitude was equally disheartening. i'm not blaming anyone here. just simply stating my reasons.

2. i am not a rich man. those who know me, know that well. i don't have my parents' money lying around at home to throw at cars. every cent i have spent is my hard earned own. the reason i stick with this garage is because they offer me the best rates, and an easy payment scheme, and that is why sometimes it takes time for them to do any work. i am not a priority, and that is something i have come to terms with. they too are not this major hifi garage and they make do with pocahontas wigwams when they must.

3. i never once said "this is the way things should be done" on this thread. or that "my tinker is the best tinker in the world" it has simply been a documentation of the work i am doing, because i love doing it. that's all it ever was. so accusations to that end, are quite frankly laughable. the lengths some people go to, i tell you...

4. the panel in question, that has led watchman and MD into a rabid frenzy, and even made JB go to the extent of saying i am doing an injustice to a classic, has been fully straightened, beaten, shape restored, and then primered over. there's no filler filling out cracks there. its just that i dont' have photos of the process because oft times i go there after work, and my battery is dying or near dead. and i couldn't take a photo.

5. this car was never exposed to the elements. it was done panel by panel, and then primered over and kept. the panels which had no rust or dents on them, like the roof for example, wasn't primered. but it was never exposed to elements, and left to rust, like some of MD's post claim. honestly it sounds to me like he's been to the garage to see my car more often than i have.

6. every panel was beaten, straightened, and shaped by hand. i removed close to 15kg of catalloy from this car. what you see is primer. there are supercut cans lying all around the garage. the one in question pointed out by MD is holding some throwaway parts from my teg inside, and was left on the bonnet by me. he may be a slow, useless fellow, my tinker, but he's the only one i've got, and i have no other option right now.

so in summary, i would just like to say that the abuse that has been meted out to me on this thread may have gone unvalidated by me but wasn't unnoticed. on this day i have, simply put, had enough. so, be glad MD and watchman. because you win. i'm sure the following statement will make you wet yourself with joy:

it was never my intention to mislead people, or to promote a bad resto (oh sorry i can't call it that apparently) a bad tinkering job a good one. it was, i reiterate, simply a documentation of my work, and was always open to honest crit, meted out in a helpful manner (a la forums like the 510 registry or ratsun.net, 510realm.com et al) rather than the abuse meted out here. i have never claimed that this is the right way to do it, or that i am the god of restoration. how can i when the self proclaimed resto-jesus is already here? this is my first classic for crying out loud!

so yes, the tinker is bad, yes, he has done a horrible job, yes, i am wasting a car, yes i am wasting my money, yes yes yes. a thousand times yes.

this is my last post on autolanka. mods, either let the Don, or whoever else has a 510 continue this thread, or shut this down, and remove my account. i'm out. thank you all for being so kind. i wish all of you every success with whatever your endeavours.