1968 Datsun 510 Sedan (Project Datto)

[Watchman]

Whether the man wishes to disclose his project or not is entirely his business, some people prefer to keep a low profile, there's no need to be rude on account of that.

Excuse me Hon. Joint Modarator,

Let this humble member explain himself.

Nowhere untill page 43 had the Don mentioned anything about HIS car. So when the Don jumped into a discussion between the Komi and MD, to an outsider, the Don had no business to get involved and rant on it. The ONLY reason he would need to, is if he was a moderator trying to enforce peace and harmony in the forum. So again, to an outsider that does NOT know of The Don's "secret/low-profile" car it only seemed like a modorator's biased attempt at creating 'peace'.

If The Don didn't want his secret car to be made known he should not have defended the baas or whoever from the position of a stakeholder in this issue. It was only afterwards that he disclosed that his vested interest (his own secret car) in this whole thing. Once he did so, I addressed him as a fellow-member with the automotive curiosity to see his car. And i would like to say that I am not the first person on the forum to request to see someone's car/project. So Mr. Joint Modarator S_N, I don't see why you have to jump in further to persecute ME for it. As for my PPPDS comment, i believe my above explanation answers that too)

Edited September 15, 2014 by Watchman

[The Don]

You guys collaborating will benefit both cars since both of you are shooting for somewhat similar goals. And yet missing that 1300 conversion being rods away must have been a bummer. But hey, they say hindsight is 20-20.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The important point here is that the L13 engines are in really good condition, but the L16 and L18 engines we bought are in poor condition and haven't run for many decades from the looks of it. So it would have made a lot more sense to use that as a platform than those two piles of rust. I will share the pics in a future post.

[Watchman]

I got mine off a friend on friendly terms. At the moment nothing has been done on that car, and it runs and drives. The work hasn't started on that car and I'm kind of using Komis as a test case, as to what needs to be done and how. Watchman, I help a lot of people with their projects behind the scenes, in helping them source parts and advising where possible. I don't go about talking about eveything I do in life in this forum, and for a large part it is irrelevant.

Also in this case the person who objected knows all of this information himself. So there was no issue of disclosure, though he may have made it seem so.

Anyway, I want to draw a line under this and move on. Supra, I will rely on you to moderate this thread because I don't want there to be accusations of being partial to one member or the other.

#1 - No one questioned your good intentions/actions. I have no doubt that you have a kind heart.

#2 - And like I said above, everything I said was based on what YOU said in a public forum. And as part of the 'public', we have the right to form our own opinions.

#3 - As everything has been set straight I too shall not drag this further and I will not be giving you any watchman's warnings.

I wish sylvi was here to see how i was victimized by Joint Mod S_N's harsh words. I hope it proves to him that the Joint Mods are not my friends. sighh....

[Hoonigan]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The important point here is that the L13 engines are in really good condition, but the L16 and L18 engines we bought are in poor condition and haven't run for many decades from the looks of it. So it would have made a lot more sense to use that as a platform than those two piles of rust. I will share the pics in a future post.

The way you guys have been hunting down other 510s, I'm pretty sure that these extra blocks will find homes soon enough

[MasterDon]

I am so appalled by the behaviour of the so called joint moderators Supra Natural and Don.They have been biased toward Komisiripala for their own private petty gains...It is frankly disgusting.

And let's not forget they are defending a man who has been blatantly lying to us through out this thread and misleading our esteemed membership...I' don't how they can sleep at night with this injustice going on.

[The Don]

The way you guys have been hunting down other 510s, I'm pretty sure that these extra blocks will find homes soon enough

Ha ha, the 510 platform is quite interesting Hoonigan, to work on from a resto mod perspective. A lot of problems have been resolved by enthusiasts all over the world and so we are not pioneers in anyway. And as you know, its easier to do a better job, when you understand something a little better. And we are doing so incrementally.

This is the reason I didn't start to do anything on my 510 yet, because I don't feel I know enough to really tackle certain problems, plus like you I have to do it from a distance. So working with Komi on his one has had that added benefit, like you have learned from Sirimalnames. I never planned to acquire a 510 myself, because its hard to work on them when you are not in the country. But the chap who sold it was an old friend and we spoke man to man and did it on the basis he still gets to drive it when done

Also I've changed my mind a bit on resto modding. I still don't believe in making Frankenstein cars, but I think you can make subtle improvements to make something even better. Actually the Japanese were doing it out of the factory. The same car sold in different markets had completely different options. Most JDM 510s seem to have brake boosters for example, and had AC fitted first as a dealer option and then as a factory option later on.

[Supra_Natural]

Ane bung... you buggers are enough to make anyone's hair grey!

Look can we just leave it now? There are two 510 projects being done by our members, let's just wish them all the best and follow with interest.

[ferrarif50]

Yes dudes... we dont need fights here peace peace. We would love to see updates on both dattos, not fights.0

BTW where's peri? Seems very busy with Ingress...

[VVTi]

No one is talking about he 3rd person who is suffering here... ME.

I have to carry their junk to and from garages.

No one cares about the abuse me and my poor Forester goes through. My boot carpet has enough oil to attract US attention.

This is not fair. I need a thread all for myself to bitch about the Datsun rebuild and the physical and psychological toll it is taking on me and my Forester.

[Komisiripala]

No one is talking about he 3rd person who is suffering here... ME.

I have to carry their junk to and from garages.

No one cares about the abuse me and my poor Forester goes through. My boot carpet has enough oil to attract US attention.

This is not fair. I need a thread all for myself to bitch about the Datsun rebuild and the physical and psychological toll it is taking on me and my Forester.

*HUG* but we laaaau you no!

[pug306xsi]

No one is talking about he 3rd person who is suffering here... ME.

I have to carry their junk to and from garages.

No one cares about the abuse me and my poor Forester goes through. My boot carpet has enough oil to attract US attention.

This is not fair. I need a thread all for myself to bitch about the Datsun rebuild and the physical and psychological toll it is taking on me and my Forester.

VVTi!Nice wheels! whats the size of that engine?

[Cyclist]

No one cares about the abuse me and my poor Forester goes through. My boot carpet has enough oil to attract US attention.

haha, classic !

[Davy]

lol VVTi. You should reserve a spot under the 510's hood so that a decal of your name can be pasted.

"Atha hitha VVTi gen"

[Komisiripala]

lol VVTi. You should reserve a spot under the 510's hood so that a decal of your name can be pasted.

"Atha hitha VVTi gen"

You know what I'm gonna do that!!

[Bracket]

"sallith na sanipath na VVTI nathnam mekath na"

[VVTi]

VVTi!Nice wheels! whats the size of that engine?

That is a VQ30DE... a VQ30DET is planned... if Komi has his way.

err that is a V6 3 liter, in English.

[VVTi]

You know what I'm gonna do that!!

I will get you a nice pic of me...

[MasterDon]

A serious question to The Don and Komisiripala...You guys have been admiring the body work of this garage and have been using many superlatives when admiring their so called top notch work..

If so,please explain the following points after looking at the pictures Komi has posted.I think your expert comments will be valuable to our members.

1.How is covering the entire car in Catoloy is described as using bare minimum as the Don claimed?

2.Is tinkering work done after the application of Cataloy?And are the burnt Cataloy scraped off entirely afterwards?

3.Looks like the Cataloy applied areas have been exposed to the elements for a long time with no protection.As we know rust will eat beneath the Catoloy if left unprotected....Please explain how this is acceptable to you.

Waiting for you reply.

[MasterDon]

Since the xxxxx twins are refusing to answer my very legitimate concerns or most probably have no clue what I'm talking about I'm gonna do a post about what the painter is doing wrong with the Datsun.

First of all metal filler paste or Cataloy as its most commonly known is Not a moulding or sculpting meterial.Its for filling and smoothing very minor imperfections of the body.If the tinker has done a proper job an average 50 year old car won't even need a liter of the stuff.

As you can see from the above photos the painter has spread a very thick layer of catoloy super cut all over the fenders and bonnet with the rust still visible,and is basically sanding/shaping that cataloy layer.This is done by lazy,talantless or greedy painters as a shorcut to get the job done and it is not how it is supposed to be used.You're supposed to apply the cataloy to the dents and dips only and then smooth it out with the rest of the metal surface using the un-dented surface as a guideline.

You may ask why I say to use Catoloy the bare minimum amount possible.Well the negative effects include

1 After a while the thick cataloy may start to bubble and swell if any amount of moisture is retained.Or at least if you're lucky it'll only dull the paint.
2.It's not very strong.Thats why these days when cars prepped like this datsun gets into accidents you see layers of cataloy allover the roads.
3The weight.You are basically adding 3 or 5 Kgs to the car.Shane who has the mint Escort mk1 informed me his car had close to 10kgs of cataloy on the paint job done by the previous owner.

4.The original body lines and shapes may be lost.Since the painter is basically sculpting a new shape from the filler the original look of the car is lost.

5.Resale value of the car will drop drastically if potential buyers discover layers of Cataloy on the body.

The reccomended maximum amount of thickness of a filler layer is 1/20 of an inch.

As you can see from the above pic the painter is applying the catoloy straight on to the bare metal.That is another no-no.You're supposed to prime the body first before applying any paste.Because the putty it self has air pockets and any moisture that is retained will cause rust and that will eat through the metal because theres nothing to protect it.See the belove video for further clarification.

On my next post I'll explain why not to leave Cataloy'd surfaces with out any protection exposed to sun and moisture for prolonged periods As well as other mistakes I have observed.

Please bare in mind these posts are not meant to spite anyone but for the benifit of members who may be mislead by the contents of this thread.I know there are certain people here who are always ready to abuse and ridicule my posts but if atleast one person reads this and sees the truth for what it is without the bullshit and fake bravado that has plagued this thread I'll be a happy man.

Edited: MD there's no need to call anyone names.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Supra_Natural

[MAS]

I post here at the risk of being since this thread is very hot these days. MasterDon, your practical tips (according to your restoration experience) on painting a car deserves a thread of its own which will really benefit all of us. I for one has painted my 27 year old Nissan twice (within 14 years) and never got it right for a full satisfaction.

I have seen on Overhaulin' that they never prime a car before applying metal filler. It was always, sand blasting first, tinkering and then filler. Maybe their filler is high quality and does not require a primer coat.

Peace to all :-)

Edited September 18, 2014 by MAS

[MasterDon]

I post here at the risk of being since this thread is very hot these days. MasterDon, your practical tips (according to your restoration experience) on painting a car deserves a thread of its own which will really benefit all of us. I for one has painted my 27 year old Nissan twice (within 14 years) and never got it right for a full satisfaction.

I have seen on Overhaulin' that they never prime a car before applying metal filler. It was always, sand blasting first, tinkering and then filler. Maybe their filler is high quality and does not require a primer coat.

Peace to all :-)

I haven't seen a full episode of Overhaulin' but a quick search on Youtube led me to this clip from the show...The guy clearly says they primered and guide coated the body before using Bondo(filler).....

Eitherway common sense dictates it's better to prime the body first...Even If not you have to spray a primer coat as soon as you finish sanding the Cataloy.According to the pics on this thread Datsun has been exposed to moisture,sun and rain for months with the filler.That is hysterically inept work on the part of the painter.The maximum amount of time between applying the Cataloy,sanding and sparaying a primer coat over it shouldn't be more than two hours.That is why good painters do small sections at a time.

Edited September 19, 2014 by MasterDon

[The Don]

MD comment what you want but kindly refrain from name calling. I never called you by anything but your forum name.

Internet anonymity does not give you the right to side step common courtesy, particularly when we have not been rude to you. If you have a point to make, make it but stick to the facts.

I read your comments on body work preparation with great interest. I accept that it is the right way to do things.

There are two issues at hand here. First is metal work, and the second is conditioning and preparation for point.

At the moment my experience with the tinker in question is metal work, and the metal work has been up to my expectations (I'm speaking of the Mirage).

But the conditioning (which is things like preventing surface rust on exposed metal), I do admit has not been as good as I would have liked. Sadly none of the body work people I have ever worked with, or come into contact with have paid attention to this fact. A few claimed once questioned (not this particular person, as I haven't spoken to him about this) that filler needs to stick to bare metal. So at the time of the prep phase they grind and sand away the surface rust and apply filler.

So if you say it is best to apply primer immediately and applying primer is not barrier for applying filler, then it is obviously a point to be made to the tinker.

What surprises me is why you bring this up now? It would have been a lot more helpful if this was pointed out a lot earlier, which obviously would have helped. You know, it is very easy to criticise people and put them down, but I think the better thing to do is to advice and help.

I agree with MAS that your bodywork experience probably deserves a thread on its own.

I think everybody in the forum appreciates constructive criticism. We are not God's and are not always right about everything, and our opinions are limited by our experience and perspective. And I learn new things every day on the forum.

And feedbacks given on workmen are given with that perspective and in good faith. If people take action based on that feedback then they do so completely at their risk.

I have not commented about any of the images because the company firewalls blocks most images from file upload sites. So I can't see what you are talking about.

And as you can understand replying to your posts is not my job. It's a mere courtesy.

And as I have said before MANY times over, if you know of workmen who you think can do a better job, please recommend on the good garages/ workmen thread.

[Watchman]

And as you can understand replying to your posts is not my job. It's a mere courtesy.

And as I have said before MANY times over, if you know of workmen who you think can do a better job, please recommend on the good garages/ workmen thread.

Yes you're right it's not your job. But it sure isn't a courtesy either, so you can get off your high horse. The reason you're replying is cos the tinker/painter you have been (indirectly or unintentionally) endorsing has been proven to be inept. And to keep yourself from loosing face you HAD to explain/defend him.

And I do NOT agree with your segregation of metal work and paint-prep. They go hand in hand. Even the most beautiful piece of metalwork is of no use if it's gonna rust in a couple of years. So someone who truly cares about his exquisite workmanship would try to save it from rust. I'm no-where as experienced as most of you here, but AFAIK, once the tinker has finished his 'tinkering' he would give it a coat of that gray or brown primer to protect the metal. And it is on THIS primer that the painter applies putty on. (MD, Please correct me if i'm wrong)

And if MD doesn't want to share his tinker/painter its HIS choice. You don't have to drop hints about it in every other post. If you (or someone in the forum) ends up having an issue with the tinker after being recommended by MD, you may create bad-blood between MD and his tinker. So enough of "if you know someone tell us who it is".

[The Don]

Yes you're right it's not your job. But it sure isn't a courtesy either, so you can get off your high horse. The reason you're replying is cos the tinker/painter you have been (indirectly or unintentionally) endorsing has been proven to be inept. And to keep yourself from loosing face you HAD to explain/defend him.

And I do NOT agree with your segregation of metal work and paint-prep. They go hand in hand. Even the most beautiful piece of metalwork is of no use if it's gonna rust in a couple of years. So someone who truly cares about his exquisite workmanship would try to save it from rust. I'm no-where as experienced as most of you here, but AFAIK, once the tinker has finished his 'tinkering' he would give it a coat of that gray or brown primer to protect the metal. And it is on THIS primer that the painter applies putty on. (MD, Please correct me if i'm wrong)

And if MD doesn't want to share his tinker/painter its HIS choice. You don't have to drop hints about it in every other post. If you (or someone in the forum) ends up having an issue with the tinker after being recommended by MD, you may create bad-blood between MD and his tinker. So enough of "if you know someone tell us who it is".

Watchman,

I have no need to defend the tinker or any workment I use or have used. They are not related to me and I don't get anything out of speaking good of them. I like many are sharing my own experiences. If somebody asks me to reccomend somebody, I recommend the best I know. They won't be just because of that the best in the country.

The pictures are there, the description is there. Others can judge for themselves as MD has. If people feel the guy is completely inept at his job, then don't use him. Until I find a better one, I will use him.

Yes prep and metal work I go hand in hand. But the issue I had with the Mirage was metal work. A number of people I spoke to did not want to take the job on, or wanted to weld strips to rusted areas, which you can't do on this sort of roof. The only option was to fabricate from scratch from a single sheet. That has been achieved. Metal work is the harder skill because it requires some artistic talent. The wings of the Mirage were badly deformed due to poor metal work due to past repairs. This guy has managed to correct them, and the lines match up and the lights fit properly. Obviously things can be done better, but you learn these things as you go along.

And yes that is MD's choice. And nobody asked for him to share his tinker. The reason we use this one is he is the best we found. If there are better ones around it would be nice to get a recommendation. In the first post he said there are far better people for this type of job. But always the problem has been, who are they so we can take our work to them if they are genuinely better.

It is very easy to criticise people, and put people down as I've said already. Criticism is great but where do you go from there? Words are cheap, that is all I'll say

Also Watchman, why don't you take some of your own good advice you gave to me only a few posts back. MD addressed a post to me and I responded. Enough said.

Edit: Found this interesting article. It seems there is some logic behind applying filler directly to bare metal....

http://www.autobodystore.com/filler_&_epoxy.shtml

Edited September 18, 2014 by The Don

[VVTi]

Guys shall we stop this essay competition. In fact shall we all stop talking about this whole thing and take a break for a few days. Might be good for all of us.