Peugeot 407 Turbo Repeatedly Fails (4 Times)

[chan5]

Guys need some help on one of my colleague's car.

It's 2008 peugeot 407 diesel 1.6 manual.

Currently 110k kms with maintenance history throughout agents.

Turbo failure notice at 108k kms and he imported Garret branded one from UK and fixed.within 200kms it busted again.

Sent the sample for warranty claim and their diagnosis at UK shop was oil starvation.

While it arrives back . He fixed his original turbo after repaired locally by a reputed person with a genuine mallet repair kit. That one busted om few munites of first start.

Repair was done at a place of the current car mart senoir mechanic and as per ther tests,oil pressure was normal and anyway recon engine was put into car with new oil pump.the oil pressure was adequate as per their observations. And its 300 ml on one munite ideal to be precise.

After all this jumble the warranty turbo arrives after payment of 160 sterling pounds and fixed that with so called procedures from the garret agent, which lasted only another 1500kms.

Now he's in total darkness with total bill is reaching 800k.

The mechanic seems confident and dealt with known peugeots and does interestingly honest job.but fellow is clueless now.

Carmart was contacted and their recommendation is to replace engine with turbocharger again with brand new from them.

That's again another 1 million rupees plus.

Any clue guys?

[Davy]

My knowledge on turbochargers are limited, but I'll share some comments based on my experience and what I think might be the cause.

A turbo can fail within minutes if the shaft isn't lubricated properly. Since oil starvation was observed by the Garret turbo repair shop, your friend's mechanic might want to first check if the oil feed does supply adequate oil into the turbo, without repeatedly changing turbos expecting a different result.

The oil feed line might be blocked (sludge, carbon or even a bent pipe).

EDIT: Just read your post again and saw the part about the oil pressure. May I ask how the oil pressure was checked? Was it by tapping into the oil pressure switch plug hole or by checking the pressure on the oil feed line to the turbo?

Edited December 4, 2015 by Davy

[nissmoz]

I agree with Davy. I'm an importer of Turbo charges. I believe this kind of failure happens when there is no enough Oil in the shaft. But find out the performance of the car. Also when did the first turbo failure occurred? Is it after the oil pump replaced or before?

By observing, oil pressure cannot be measured accurately. This can be measured via the car computer or inserting a pressure meter externally at the turbo inlet. Most importantly the pressure should be monitored at the turbo inlet. By checking the car computer you can get the oil pressure at pump discharge.

Turbo's are not rocket science. Can be a nightmare if not proper diagnosis.

Hope this helps.

Nissmo Z

[Rumesh88]

@Davy. The method used for checking the oil flow in this case is to keep the oil feed pipe open and measure the flow on idle for one minute. 300ml per minute is considered normal. That's the flow into the turbo but what if the return path is clogged up?

[chan5]

@ Davy - garage didn't have specific equipments to measure out the oil pressure to turbo.

They did the simple test of measuring the volume of oil pumped out by turbo feed in line.I have read in UK forums that lot of experts believe it's adequate oil pressure if the feed line can output 300ml of oil per munite when car is at idle.

@Nismoz - the oil pump replaced with recon engine firstly and then agin got another oil pump with the replaced recon engine.

[chan5]

@rumesh - the recon engine was cleaned thoroughly new oil was used prior to starting. No obvious block was visible by the look of the feed line flow

[peugeot407]

My First question why did you replace the engine at a such a low mileage?

Could be a problem with VGT actuator system

[Davy]

@Davy. The method used for checking the oil flow in this case is to keep the oil feed pipe open and measure the flow on idle for one minute. 300ml per minute is considered normal. That's the flow into the turbo but what if the return path is clogged up?

Good point Rumesh.

Also, I'd double check the viscosity of the engine oil being used. Using a thicker oil might cause the oil to be displaced out of the shaft sooner than new oil can fill in and lubricate it.

[Rumesh88]

Good point Rumesh.

Also, I'd double check the viscosity of the engine oil being used. Using a thicker oil might cause the oil to be displaced out of the shaft sooner than new oil can fill in and lubricate it.

Yes. Agreed. If you read the instructions for replacing the turbo in http://www.ebay.com/gds/Peugeot-Citroen-1-6-HDI-turbocharger-failure-causes-solutions-/10000000177599761/g.html you would realize how sensitive the oil flow is and to what extent the other (seemingly unrelated!) things should be maintained to keep the oil flow flawless.

Edit: I thought 50km oil change could be a typo in above link but read this http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/407-41/407-1-6l-hdi-turbo-problems-22120/ it is even more detailed.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Rumesh88

[chan5]

The oil used was Mobil Delvac fully synthetic 5w40.as recommended.and thay have checked for obvious obstruction on the outflow oil line to engine with a help of feeding oil by a tube back and it flowed as per no obstruction at all.

The reason to change engine was they and we were clueless what's happening. And no actual diagnosis with no way to go.

Most importantly CARMART doesn't have such instruments to measure oil flow to turbo and they also use the same method.

The problem is after 2 oil pumps,4 turbochargers and still same issue.

It's the turbo propeller shaft is lax now and leaking oil from oil seals.and making nasty noise on operations.on the way to die.

[Rumesh88]

I think it is a must to get the oil pressure measured because the pressure head generated by the oil pump must be shared between several other oil paths too. If the clearances on other oil paths is high, for example due to wear, there could be less oil pressure available for the turbo. What is needed for diagnosing this issue is a pressure gauge connected to input oil path of the turbo and keep measuring the oil pressure through the entire operating temperature range at idle and 2000 RPM and see if they match with figures given in above link. Then disconnect the output path and see if there is a significant pressure drop (just to make sure that the outlet path is clear). This would be really a messy job BTW. If the clearances on the other oil paths, particularly those supplying oil to the bearings, have an effect on the pressure head then even a recondition engine would not solve it unless all the bearings were replaced at the time of overhauling.

[nissmoz]

you may also need to check if there's a sensor to monitor the oil pressure to the turbo, which can be faulty that reduces the oil flow to the turbo. Also Check the Air Flow sensor as well.

Make sure the Air path is also clear.If there's a back pressure (Air) on the turbo,

I think there's a sensor or a valve connected to the computer (directly / indirectly) that regulates the oil pressure to the turbo which is not working properly. Could be a the CPU malfunction after all. ..

Good luck

Nizzmo Z

[Devinda_Z]

Is his car insured fully?

[Twin Turbo]

Sad to read the dilemma with the turbo.

remove the turbo +Clean the pressure oil feed line. And crank/start the engine.oil should flow like an open tap!if not it's blocked.The oil is good. Nothing wrong with viscosity ,type etc,.

.The repeated turbo failures in your case as pointed out by the manufacturer could very well be due to lack of lubrication. as the unit has only one moving part! (the bearing shaft with the turbine and impeller.)

Why not get a ball bearing turbo? it'll virtually eliminate the oil starvation prob.While you are at it add a turbo lube kit and for good measure, a turbo timer.
The local dealer is limited by the regulations and their dealership rules from the manufacturer .So they can't modify the car.

And fully lubricate any turbo before fitting

Good luck
TT.

Edited February 11, 2016 by Twin Turbo