How to know if a digital odometer has been tampered or adjusted?

[Angelo Barnabas]

I have been searching the market to buy a decently used waginR stingray vehicle. But some vehicle of year 2014, 2015 have such low mileage and it is impossible to identify if the odometer has been tampered. Please advise is there a way to know or any organisation that will check? 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Angelo Barnabas
Had further inquiry that I had not included.

[AVANTE]

32 minutes ago, Angelo Barnabas said:

I have been searching the market to buy a decently used waginR stingray vehicle. But some vehicle of year 2014, 2015 have such low mileage and it is impossible to identify if the odometer has been tampered. Please advise is there a way to know or any organisation that will check? 

As far as I know, no easy/magical method exists. But there are few tips:

On a 2014/2015 wagonR, you should expect anywhere from 30k and above depending on the owner. Try yout best to go for a first owner, family/private vehicle. Check the mileage in the emission scan reports of each year (if the owner has them) and see if anything is fishy.

Look at service records, tire wear, lots of scratches & dents and other signs of heavy (maybe improper) & long distance use. Try your best not to buy from a sale or leasing yard as most rental vehicles end up there.

Also, not sure about the accuracy of this, but I was told the meter tampering geniuses usually are present around the Colombo area..so buying an outstation car would help slightly. 

WagonR owners who I know personally have different characteristics but most of them are just normal, decent individuals (usually women) who aren't really an expert on mechanical aspects of automobiles. So I can't imagine them knowing about tampering with the meter in the first place.

Edited January 5, 2020 by □AVANTE□

[vitz]

Just to share my experiences. We had to exchange our GP1 for a CHR from a Car Sale in Kurunegala. The car was heavily used clocked nearly 160,000 km. Since my wife used it her long daily drive, the interior was in mint condition. Recently, I checked the web-site of the car sale, to my surprise the car sales guys have rejuvenated the car, now it has done only 60000 km .

The lesson, never trust these car salespeople either when buying a new or used car!!!!!

Edited February 15, 2020 by vitz

[AVANTE]

1 hour ago, vitz said:

Just to share my experiences. We had to exchange our GP1 for a CHR from a Car Sale in Kurunegala. The car was heavily used clocked nearly 160,000 km. Since my wife used it her long daily drive, the interior was in mint condition. Recently, I checked the web-site of the car sale, to my surprise the car sales guys have rejuvenated the car, now it has done only 60000 km .

The lesson, never trust these car salespeople either when buying a new or used car!!!!!

I truly feel bad for the person who would buy that GP1 thinking it's a "reliable, cheap to maintain japan vahanaya with only 60,000km". Suspension components, timing chain, seals, bearings, bushings, mounts, electronics, hybrid battery, sensors, fluids, belts, would be seeing their way out soon for a vehicle with 'such few kms'

[Sylvi]

Members,

This meter adjusting is going on for nearly 20 years or more. The first person to do was a computer Expert. Now there are few meter adjusters are doing this fraud. This is Sri Lanka.

Sylvester Wijesinghe

Sylvi.

[gayanath]

My relation visited us in mid 2019 by newly bought Toyota Vitz 2016 (as an unregistered car from a Big car seller a week before) with the millage 27,XXX km. By just looking tires and the condition of the car, I had a doubt so I checked a bit. I could find a Japanese maintenance bill at the millage of 44,XXX km which kept inside the owners and maintenance manual (may be the car seller couldn't check the book). I took photos of that one and chassis number and other details. Then searched online after my relation has gone. By referring around hundreds of vitz auction records I could find the auction sheet of the same car with the millage of 51,XXX km. However the condition of the car is not bad. It was 3.5 grade with interior B. 

No pint of breaking the heart of my relation so, kept silent. ??. ??

[Hyaenidae]

8 minutes ago, gayanath said:

 

No pint of breaking the heart of my relation so, kept silent. ??. ??

But you advised him to use 0W20 engine oil didn't you? ?

[gdgy]

1 hour ago, gayanath said:

My relation visited us in mid 2019 by newly bought Toyota Vitz 2016 (as an unregistered car from a Big car seller a week before) with the millage 27,XXX km. By just looking tires and the condition of the car, I had a doubt so I checked a bit. I could find a Japanese maintenance bill at the millage of 44,XXX km which kept inside the owners and maintenance manual (may be the car seller couldn't check the book). I took photos of that one and chassis number and other details. Then searched online after my relation has gone. By referring around hundreds of vitz auction records I could find the auction sheet of the same car with the millage of 51,XXX km. However the condition of the car is not bad. It was 3.5 grade with interior B. 

No pint of breaking the heart of my relation so, kept silent. ??. ??

I have a similar experience with a friend of mine. He bought a "7000km" mint condition WagonR from a VERY popular car importer. Didn't bother with auction sheets as obviously the car has seen more than 7000km for sure. (maybe around 30k) But kept silent about at as the ship has sailed for him.

Edited February 17, 2020 by gdgy

[gdgy]

59 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

But you advised him to use 0W20 engine oil didn't you? ?

WagonR owners club now recommends/suggests 0w16 Havoline for MH55s(2017 onward ) WagonR. Wonder how it would turn out for those engines.

Edited February 17, 2020 by gdgy

[gayanath]

On 2/15/2020 at 9:12 PM, AVANTE said:

I truly feel bad for the person who would buy that GP1 thinking it's a "reliable, cheap to maintain japan vahanaya with only 60,000km". Suspension components, timing chain, seals, bearings, bushings, mounts, electronics, hybrid battery, sensors, fluids, belts, would be seeing their way out soon for a vehicle with 'such few kms'

And, after all.... People would say, Sri Lankan cars wear down fast in such a low millage due to bad environmental conditions, quality of fuel, ets. Therefore, please do frequent oil changes, engine tune ups, etc.........??

Its hard to find a car in SL having 200,000+ km on ODO but engines overhauled. ????

[Quiet]

This problem has a simple solution. Make the mileage of emission tests public through a database (At least the problem will be solved for used cars).

It is a mafia. I did talk to a few vehicle valuers who are the who and Who's of the vehicle valuers association. They do not want to implement. I spoke to a Deputy Commissioner of RMV who is a MBA batchmate of mine. Neither are they interested.

If you know anyone that can help lobby it would be a great service to the general public who intend to buy second hand registered vehicles

[AVANTE]

9 minutes ago, Quiet said:

It is a mafia. I did talk to a few vehicle valuers who are the who and Who's of the vehicle valuers association. They do not want to implement. I spoke to a Deputy Commissioner of RMV who is a MBA batchmate of mine. Neither are they interested.

Your idea is good but there are buggers who wind down the mileage right before the emissions checkup.

Yeah, I wonder how these people will face god. A bunch of heartless bastards. But there's no way to save the car industry here, it's gone way too deep.

What about car manufacturers making odometers hard to crack? It would be great public service.

[gayanath]

Agreed with you. 

Is millage tampering illegal in Sri Lanka? I think its not yet made illegal. 

 

12 minutes ago, Quiet said:

This problem has a simple solution. Make the mileage of emission tests public through a database (At least the problem will be solved for used cars).

People will then try to tamper millage every year before the test. So, with above suggestion and same time, millage tampering should be gazetted as a critical punishable offence with a huge fine. 

[iRage]

All this will become a requirement if and when a strict road worthy certification system is actually implemented. Until that day comes mileage tampering is no one's concern. Only other hope is that consumer protection frameworks actually protect the consumer and people can actually sue car sales people for selling crap..but that too will never happen because no one cares a crap.

To be honest...the consumers don't seem to care as well. As long as it is cheap and has certain badges of specific color and looks shiny they will happily buy any p.o.s. They only care about cheapness...cheap to buy...cheap to run. Then when their low mileage Japan car breaks down..they just say the model is not good for SL out of pure and utter ignorance. Then we are also stuck in the whole 80s mentality where a high mileage car is all doom and gloom....because then you actually ahve to spend some money on some proper maintenance work.

 If the government enforces proper road worthy certification systems and makes things like tampering of critical components illegal, that would mean the owners will actually have to spend time and money in fixing cars. That goes against what SL car buyers want.  we see our people striking for permits, cheap petrol, high import taxes...how many have you seen lobbying and protesting asking for better safety features, or lemon laws or ensuring that vehicles are safe ?

[gayanath]

21 minutes ago, iRage said:

 If the government enforces proper road worthy certification systems and makes things like tampering of critical components illegal, that would mean the owners will actually have to spend time and money in fixing cars. That goes against what SL car buyers want.  we see our people striking for permits, cheap petrol, high import taxes...how many have you seen lobbying and protesting asking for better safety features, or lemon laws or ensuring that vehicles are safe ?

We all are the people should lobby for it as citizens.... 3,554 people died due to accidents in 2018. It's almost 10 per day and the trend is incremental. 

 

[iRage]

4 hours ago, gayanath said:

We all are the people should lobby for it as citizens.... 3,554 people died due to accidents in 2018. It's almost 10 per day and the trend is incremental. 

 

See..this is my point @gayanath....we have people shouting for permits and increased taxes. But where are the people demonstrating and shouting asking for safe school buses ? or making the private buses safe ? When the government enforced high penalties for buses they held the entire country hostage....how ? why ? we are the majority..we could have held them hostage and made them fall in line with the regulations. But we didn't..because for our population, it meant they themselves will have to sweat for it.  When AIrbags were made mandatory....people went and yelled saying cars are getting expensive and that they are being discriminated because they do not have the ability to buy "expensive" vehicles with airbags...WTF ???

We really do not care that 3000+ people died on our roads. We only care when one of that 3000+ becomes one of our own family members or our selves. We rise up and shout against terrorists blowing up the country..but we do not care about people terrorizing the country every minute with lorries dressed up as buses. We yell about people making bombs and walking around with hidden weapons...but we stay shut about pancake like damaged cars being put back together and on to the street and sold off to people that are nothing but time bombs. We yell about the bakery guy whose pan raaththala is only 90% of the weight of a raaththala...but we stay shut about people selling crap for cars under false pretenses.

Edited February 17, 2020 by iRage

[john cooper]

On 2/16/2020 at 4:56 AM, Sylvi said:

Members,

This meter adjusting is going on for nearly 20 years or more. The first person to do was a computer Expert. Now there are few meter adjusters are doing this fraud. This is Sri Lanka.

Sylvester Wijesinghe

Sylvi.

We still find the genuine Sri Lankan's!!

When my dad bought his 2005 LN166R off the 1st owner it had done just over 300k on the clock (about 5 years back). The owner was one of the leading car parts dealer at panchikawatta and he had all the opportunities to change the speedo but he hasn't done that + he kept all the Toyota service records up to date.

 

[gayanath]

17 hours ago, iRage said:

See..this is my point @gayanath....we have people shouting for permits and increased taxes. But where are the people demonstrating and shouting asking for safe school buses ? or making the private buses safe ? When the government enforced high penalties for buses they held the entire country hostage....how ? why ? we are the majority..we could have held them hostage and made them fall in line with the regulations. But we didn't..because for our population, it meant they themselves will have to sweat for it.  When AIrbags were made mandatory....people went and yelled saying cars are getting expensive and that they are being discriminated because they do not have the ability to buy "expensive" vehicles with airbags...WTF ???

We really do not care that 3000+ people died on our roads. We only care when one of that 3000+ becomes one of our own family members or our selves. We rise up and shout against terrorists blowing up the country..but we do not care about people terrorizing the country every minute with lorries dressed up as buses. We yell about people making bombs and walking around with hidden weapons...but we stay shut about pancake like damaged cars being put back together and on to the street and sold off to people that are nothing but time bombs. We yell about the bakery guy whose pan raaththala is only 90% of the weight of a raaththala...but we stay shut about people selling crap for cars under false pretenses.

Agreed....

@iRage, Why don't we do something.....? Five good people is enough to start something and keep the warm up to the results. People will join for clear cut good things (I mean if we try to promote a politician, people will support as well as oppose. But for road accidents related, no body will be there to oppose). 

[Quiet]

I don't think the average person will do a tampering every year. Mostly people will do it when they think of selling or when a buy and sell guy (Buyya) purchse the vehicle. so if at lease last three years of emission test data is available in a public database that would be a start and we will be able to get some sort of idea of the mileage. Some idea is better than nothing and we need to start somewhere.

I sold two vehicles in 2019 - Honda Vezel , when I sold the mileage was 80K and week later I saw it advertised at 30K.

                                                   Mazda 06, When I sold mileage was 41K one and half years back. I saw the vehicle advertised at 42K still 

                                                   under warranty  six-seven months back.

[gayanath]

On 2/17/2020 at 4:50 PM, iRage said:

We really do not care that 3000+ people died on our roads. We only care when one of that 3000+ becomes one of our own family members or our selves. We rise up and shout against terrorists blowing up the country..but we do not care about people terrorizing the country every minute with lorries dressed up as buses. We yell about people making bombs and walking around with hidden weapons...but we stay shut about pancake like damaged cars being put back together and on to the street and sold off to people that are nothing but time bombs. We yell about the bakery guy whose pan raaththala is only 90% of the weight of a raaththala...but we stay shut about people selling crap for cars under false pretenses.

India is doing some thing. Just for info. 

https://crickettimes.com/2020/02/road-safety-world-series-2020-teams-squads-schedule-and-venue/

Quote:

“There has been a lot of excitement towards this tournament. People were eagerly waiting for the schedule and the tickets. I am extremely glad for the fans, and I am sure they will come in large numbers to cheer for the legends and also support this important cause of creating awareness towards road safety in the country,” stated the RTO Chief of Thane, Ravi Gaekwad, according to MyKhel.

“Road safety is a serious concern. One person dies every 4 minutes in India and we all should join hands to make our roads safe and save precious human lives,” added the senior member of the Road Safety Cell of Maharashtra and Chairman of the Trust, Shant Bharat Surakshit Bharat.

.......Quote:

 

[Sylvi]

Members,

I am Now 76+ years old lived in Colombo 03, from the day I was born to date. ( remember 1st Independence day because my late father decorated the old Calicut Tiled house. I and my Parents one Sister. (Three of them are not living) All of us lived in Colombo 03. With flags) At that time I was 5 years old.

My late father had his Business (Electrical workshop for automobiles and heavy industrial electrical machinery maintenance.

Automobiles did our own vehicles Mechanical repairs with our staff.

I have come across many very highly skilled Tecnicitions in Electrical as well as Mechanical. All types of heavy industrial machinery and all Automobiles. I still remember how many( Workers)of them, did good repairs and few repairs were done by technicians unsatisfactory.

 My late father did those repairs again at my father's cost. There are honest and dishonest technicians. Some who do a job only to get a few rupees for their day to day living.

This meter adjusting also becomes like a category like dealers who live only for money. I know some dealers who had become Billionaires in the Automobile trade. That is their Stars.

I am born in an Electrical maintenance industry automobile and heavy industrial. Still living in the Automobile as well as heavy industrial maintenance industry.

A few complaints about my Charges what I charge, I am not worried at all. Still the aftermarket leader in one automobile aftermarket repair industry.

Sylvester Wijesinghe

Sylvi.

Edited February 29, 2020 by Sylvi

[thusharak340]

Hello,

Not only used cars, but also so called new cars also adjusted it's odometers, lucky we could trace the adjustment when check with it's original auction report where original auction reports are available within 6 months period of time from the date of auction finalized.

Not only odometer changes, but also we could find damaged vehicles which are graded as "R" also having high price category in local car market.

**********

My suggestion is do not panic and believe car sellers fairy tales. before purchase get rectified whether you buy correct vehicle which is worth for money.

**********

Edited March 17, 2020 by iRage

[kadsa98]

I know for a fact that even on newer euros the odometer can be played around with. It's even possible to update the mileage on the TCU as well. I know a few guys that do this in SL. However I should mention that it is not an easy process to do so!

[john cooper]

12 hours ago, kadsa98 said:

I know for a fact that even on newer euros the odometer can be played around with. It's even possible to update the mileage on the TCU as well. I know a few guys that do this in SL. However I should mention that it is not an easy process to do so!

When you said not an easy process, you mean it is not easy in SL or not easy doing on the actual car?

[kadsa98]

22 minutes ago, john cooper said:

When you said not an easy process, you mean it is not easy in SL or not easy doing on the actual car?

Not easy to do on the car because it takes a while and you have to mess around with the ECU. I've only seen this done on a 2014 iish Audi A8 when I was back in SL but it is possible to do on any newer euro. I don't condone this stuff though!

[john cooper]

1 hour ago, kadsa98 said:

Not easy to do on the car because it takes a while and you have to mess around with the ECU. I've only seen this done on a 2014 iish Audi A8 when I was back in SL but it is possible to do on any newer euro. I don't condone this stuff though!

I am not sure how this has done in SL and what equipment they used.

I had to replace the cluster on my 2006 TDI Jetta took only less than 5 min to get the ODO to the correct value, done via the OBD port.

one of the Toyota digital cluster wasn't that straight, I have to take the cluster out for them and they solder 3 wires into a box which then connected to the laptop via com port, took them about 20 - 30 min.

What I have heard from the auto repair shop any euro digital meter post 2000 takes less than 5 min to change.

regards,

JC