Toyota C-HR - Problem in Fuel Injectors (GDI)

[CNX]

The following was copied from an email sent by Toyota technical/customer service to a customer in UK

1) Root cause of the misfire was due to a circuit inside the ignitor being contaminated in production. Counter measured with a change in production operation.
2) This issue will not reoccur, as modified coil packs have been fitted.
3) No investigation is outstanding on your car's misfire issue.
4) Ongoing investigation for carbon build up on low speed driving vehicles and short trips is ongoing but not relevant to your vehicle.'

[vitz]

Hi All,

I had my chr serviced at TL (40000km). They recommended using the following injector cleaner once in 10,000 km. Is it just a bold attempt to sell this product or could there will be any advantage? Anyways, I purchased it but did not used it so far!!!

 

[gayanath]

19 minutes ago, vitz said:

Hi All,

I had my chr serviced at TL (40000km). They recommended using the following injector cleaner once in 10,000 km. Is it just a bold attempt to sell this product or could there will be any advantage? Anyways, I purchased it but did not used it so far!!!

How much?

[vitz]

20 hours ago, gayanath said:

How much?

Rs. 4000.00

[iRage]

22 hours ago, vitz said:

Hi All,

I had my chr serviced at TL (40000km). They recommended using the following injector cleaner once in 10,000 km. Is it just a bold attempt to sell this product or could there will be any advantage? Anyways, I purchased it but did not used it so far!!!

 

 

Well....it doesn't do a complete clan up of the injectors...so it will not have the same effect as a proper UV cleaning, etc...however, it does help keep the fuel system in generally clean order. It does act as a water chaser as well as an impurity break down of the fuel lines and such. So....you know how car detailers polish/clay the car every 1-2 years, and then wax every 6 months or so to keep things clean and then use a spray on to maintain it in the short term ? So a UV clean up will be like the polish....and the injector cleaner additive will be like the wax/spray-on  

[vitz]

13 minutes ago, iRage said:

Well....it doesn't do a complete clan up of the injectors...so it will not have the same effect as a proper UV cleaning, etc...however, it does help keep the fuel system in generally clean order. It does act as a water chaser as well as an impurity break down of the fuel lines and such. So....you know how car detailers polish/clay the car every 1-2 years, and then wax every 6 months or so to keep things clean and then use a spray on to maintain it in the short term ? So a UV clean up will be like the polish....and the injector cleaner additive will be like the wax/spray-on  

Agreed!!!!!

[iRage]

1 minute ago, vitz said:

Agreed!!!!!

So yeah...occasional use is not bad...it will help keep the injectors in good nick.  Use it as recommended (i.e. use the mix proportions indicated in the directions). ALso..needs to be done before a service.

[Kavvz]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

So yeah...occasional use is not bad...it will help keep the injectors in good nick.  Use it as recommended (i.e. use the mix proportions indicated in the directions). ALso..needs to be done before a service.

Why though? The fuel system and the engine oil are seperate circulatory systems right?

(Asking as I just pour in a bottle when I fill up every so often without thinking to time it before a service...This could be a big 'the temple roof collapsed on my head when I went to pray' senario here for me!! . Although I HAVE been doing this for years; so I guess it can't be that crazy important to time it before a service right @iRage, as shit should have certainly hit the fan by now in that case... ) 

[gayanath]

5 hours ago, vitz said:

Rs. 4000.00

If your C-HR doing 12 km/l (lets assume), you will cost Rs. 11.40 for fuel. Additional cost for injector cleaner is Rs. 0.40 so its 3.5% increase which means no harm if this is really helpful to long run of injectors (+ added fuel efficiency). 

Since this product is a product supplied by the manufacturer, I am not going to question it, but honestly I have the following doubt. 

Petrol is a good solvent and is injected under considerable pressure. Can this liquid (diluted 200 times with petrol) remove anything that cannot be removed by the petrol itself? 

[iRage]

3 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Why though? The fuel system and the engine oil are seperate circulatory systems right?

(Asking as I just pour in a bottle when I fill up every so often without thinking to time it before a service...This could be a big 'the temple roof collapsed on my head when I went to pray' senario here for me!! . Although I HAVE been doing this for years; so I guess it can't be that crazy important to time it before a service right @iRage, as shit should have certainly hit the fan by now in that case... ) 

Where do you think any build up on the injectors or along the fuel line go ? They get broken down and get spewed in to the chamber for further combustion and then whatever gets left behind in the chamber which is to be cleaned up and transfered out by the oil.  Of course if your injectors and fuel system is generally clean hen obviously what is spewed out is also less.

[Kavvz]

6 hours ago, iRage said:

Where do you think any build up on the injectors or along the fuel line go ? They get broken down and get spewed in to the chamber for further combustion and then whatever gets left behind in the chamber which is to be cleaned up and transfered out by the oil.  Of course if your injectors and fuel system is generally clean hen obviously what is spewed out is also less.

hmm...I guess! But I figure most of it gets burned and chucked out with the exhaust games.. . But wouldn't hurt to time everything before an oil change I guess.

Okay! Thanks for the feedback,  I'll update my routine to take the above into consideration...every little bit helps! Thanks @iRage and @vitz for highlighting this...

[ajm]

On 8/16/2020 at 6:44 AM, CNX said:

 

4) Ongoing investigation for carbon build up on low speed driving vehicles and short trips is ongoing but not relevant to your vehicle.'

It is a known fact that direct injection process causes more  soot buildup than manifold injection. If there is excessive soot buildup then must be either fuel quality or design issue in this model.

[vitz]

16 hours ago, gayanath said:

If your C-HR doing 12 km/l (lets assume), you will cost Rs. 11.40 for fuel. Additional cost for injector cleaner is Rs. 0.40 so its 3.5% increase which means no harm if this is really helpful to long run of injectors (+ added fuel efficiency). 

Since this product is a product supplied by the manufacturer, I am not going to question it, but honestly I have the following doubt. 

Petrol is a good solvent and is injected under considerable pressure. Can this liquid (diluted 200 times with petrol) remove anything that cannot be removed by the petrol itself? 

Yeah, given it is a product recommended by the manufacturer, it would be good to use it. Further, I think TL doesn't have equipments to clean these injectors, that is why they go for this option.

[vitz]

5 hours ago, ajm said:

It is a known fact that direct injection process causes more  soot buildup than manifold injection. If there is excessive soot buildup then must be either fuel quality or design issue in this model.

You are correct. That's why we see the build up of a slight carbon deposit in the tail pipe of CHR

[ajm]

6 hours ago, vitz said:

You are correct. That's why we see the build up of a slight carbon deposit in the tail pipe of CHR

This is also visible in other vehicles such as 2010 BMW 3. But no engine problems reported there.

[Sadeepa Dilhara]

Today I went to the service station for 40k service of my CHR and I was said to do a tune up. Mechanic told me that don't do the engine tune up because injector problem can be  occur after the tuneup and he has experience of that.  Can it happen due to tune up? 

[gayanath]

1 minute ago, Sadeepa Dilhara said:

Today I went to the service station for 40k service of my CHR and I was said to do a tune up. Mechanic told me that don't do the engine tune up because injector problem can be  occur after the tuneup and he has experience of that.  Can it happen due to tune up? 

Those injectors are very sensitive/fine-tuned so do not let any makabaas to touch it. It is better not to remove them from the engine for any reason other than a repair. 200% sure that you will get nothing doing a so called tune-up at this millage. 

[Sadeepa Dilhara]

22 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Those injectors are very sensitive/fine-tuned so do not let any makabaas to touch it. It is better not to remove them from the engine for any reason other than a repair. 200% sure that you will get nothing doing a so called tune-up at this millage. 

Thank you for the answer..

But I feel some engine vibration than before. What I can do?

[gayanath]

6 minutes ago, Sadeepa Dilhara said:

Thank you for the answer..

But I feel some engine vibration than before. What I can do?

Where do you live?

Are you using the car mainly in city limits? If so,

Option 1: Enter to one of expressway and drive at 100 km/h for around 20 -30 min. You can even put to low gear other than D and run high rev (do not go beyond 3500 rpm) for 2 -3 minutes. 

Option 2: You could try with an injector cleaner (95% placebo effect)😃

 

[Sadeepa Dilhara]

41 minutes ago, gayanath said:

Where do you live?

Are you using the car mainly in city limits? If so,

Option 1: Enter to one of expressway and drive at 100 km/h for around 20 -30 min. You can even put to low gear other than D and run high rev (do not go beyond 3500 rpm) for 2 -3 minutes. 

Option 2: You could try with an injector cleaner (95% placebo effect)😃

 

1.I'm in Kurunegala. 

2.Yes, I'm using the car in city limits.

3. Ok.I will try. 

Thank you so much 🙂👍.

[CNX]

A good Italian tune up should do the trick. 

Make sure the engine has warmed up nicely before you rev it. You will have to shift to manual mode as the CHR will cruise at 100kmph in D at less than 2000 RPM. 

You can add an injector cleaner for good measure. May I suggest Toyota's own injector cleaner or Techron. 

[malake100]

On 8/14/2020 at 2:22 PM, gayanath said:

Update:

Next, he immersed the injector in a solvent bath for about two days (tip only) and then cleaned the injector 3 times by ultrasonic cleaning. and tested with WD40 as well. No improvement in static flow rate (still 45 ml) but all other things were perfect(spay pattern in different modes, coil parameters, etc). He also cleaned the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tank, and applied injector cleaning additives to new fuels. The injectors were reinstalled last Sunday and has been running so far without any issues or errors up to now. 

 

Can you give the contacts of this garage. 

[gayanath]

18 minutes ago, malake100 said:

Can you give the contacts of this garage. 

It's with my friend. I will ask and let you know. 

[gayanath]

6 hours ago, malake100 said:

Can you give the contacts of this garage. 

Check your inbox. 

[Qads]

On 8/1/2020 at 10:53 AM, gayanath said:

Since this is a very straight forward matter rather than going with general C-HR related topics, thought to open a new thread. 

One of my friend's C-HR (YOM 2018, millage 27,XXX km as of now and imported as 0 millage) had a fuel mis few days before with check engine and below warning messages "Check Engine. Visit your dealer" & "AWD System Malfuction. 2WD mode engaged. Visit your dealer". Vehicle is drivable but in low power mode only. He visited TL and found that 2nd cylinder misfire with codes P030027, P030085, P030200, P160500. 

Learning outcomes:

1. As he has been informed, TL does not have the facility to test for GDI Fuel Injectors. He (my friend) then called to a test bench manufacture in the UK and then they gave him a contact of one of their customer in Sri Lanka. When the injectors were taken to the place and tested, the other three is injecting 50 ml and the No. 2 injector is injecting 40 ml (per unit time). After ultrasonic cleaning it was increased to 55 vs 45 respectively.

2. After mounting, the engine runs well for about 2 hours but again the problem is the same.

3. TL still has no spare parts (GDI injectors).

4. He saw three other vehicles there with the same problem. So this will be a common problem. According to TL, this problem is due to contaminated petrol but I have my doubts on that.