Good choices for used hybrid car under 6.5 million?

[HelaS]

I'm thinking of switching from a Vitz to a hybrid. Anything in particular to look out for at this price range?  TIA.

[iRage]

Well..what is your definition of a good choice ?

For your budget what you will find, I believe, are Aquas,Fits, Fit Shuttles, and 2nd generation or early 3rd gen Prisuses (depending on the condition) from the early 2010s. If you are willing ot go a bit older then you might be able to find  FD3 Civics as well.

Out of these cars, the more engaging, fun to drive options are the Hondas, followed by the Aqua (with some suspension modes. The Prius is just blah). They all do their basic tasks pretty well.

Either way all these cars are a decade old by now and has decade old problems like batteries and other hybrid system components going bad (and some with really poor and cheap repairs done to them). 90% of the people who bought these are those who just bought it for cheap running and did not care much about proper maintenance (only doing things to make the outside look shiny and new and keep the thing running).

So the good choice would be whatever car has the cleanest service and maintenance history. Now....the car being nice and shiny does not mean it is good and has a good service history. There are plenty of cars in this segment where people do a quick paint and shine job for a quick sale but are rotten underneath. So you need to give whatever car you are interested in a very very comprehensive inspection (by a professional).

May I ask what kind of Vitz you have ? and why you are moving away from the Vitz ?

IMO, keeping the Vitz (even if petrol cost is a bit higher) might be a better option than buying an unknown Hybrid car. The cost of having to replace batteries and the pre-emptive maintenance work you must do as soon as you purchase the car may more or less balance out with the extra fuel cost of the Vitz. If you are selling the Vitz for an upgrade...sadly now might not be the good time to upgrade with that budget. If you are selling because you are bored with it...think about restoring your car and doing some upgrades (anything from wheels, to body kits, to stereo systems, to brakes, suspension, etc...)

[HelaS]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

Well..what is your definition of a good choice ?

For your budget what you will find, I believe, are Aquas,Fits, Fit Shuttles, and 2nd generation or early 3rd gen Prisuses (depending on the condition) from the early 2010s. If you are willing ot go a bit older then you might be able to find  FD3 Civics as well.

Out of these cars, the more engaging, fun to drive options are the Hondas, followed by the Aqua (with some suspension modes. The Prius is just blah). They all do their basic tasks pretty well.

Either way all these cars are a decade old by now and has decade old problems like batteries and other hybrid system components going bad (and some with really poor and cheap repairs done to them). 90% of the people who bought these are those who just bought it for cheap running and did not care much about proper maintenance (only doing things to make the outside look shiny and new and keep the thing running).

So the good choice would be whatever car has the cleanest service and maintenance history. Now....the car being nice and shiny does not mean it is good and has a good service history. There are plenty of cars in this segment where people do a quick paint and shine job for a quick sale but are rotten underneath. So you need to give whatever car you are interested in a very very comprehensive inspection (by a professional).

May I ask what kind of Vitz you have ? and why you are moving away from the Vitz ?

IMO, keeping the Vitz (even if petrol cost is a bit higher) might be a better option than buying an unknown Hybrid car. The cost of having to replace batteries and the pre-emptive maintenance work you must do as soon as you purchase the car may more or less balance out with the extra fuel cost of the Vitz. If you are selling the Vitz for an upgrade...sadly now might not be the good time to upgrade with that budget. If you are selling because you are bored with it...think about restoring your car and doing some upgrades (anything from wheels, to body kits, to stereo systems, to brakes, suspension, etc...)

Thanks, iRage. I wanted to switch because of fuel costs but you've made some valid points. I will think of all this before making decision. Thank you.

[Twin Turbo]

No warrenty on battery

[noddy]

For sri lanka the hybrid energy saving cars are very good. I have a axio and it had done 125KM there are once that has done 350,000. if you look at YouTube USA site people who used these for 350 and still going strong.

I have seen a prius that had done 330,000 miles used by a hotel.

So if you decide to go for a hybrid look at the prius/aqua/axio. get the battery and the other components checked by TL and select a good vehicle with proper militance. 

if you have a 3 cylinder vits you will see a huge acceleration benefit  !!

 

 

[HelaS]

2 hours ago, noddy said:

For sri lanka the hybrid energy saving cars are very good. I have a axio and it had done 125KM there are once that has done 350,000. if you look at YouTube USA site people who used these for 350 and still going strong.

I have seen a prius that had done 330,000 miles used by a hotel.

So if you decide to go for a hybrid look at the prius/aqua/axio. get the battery and the other components checked by TL and select a good vehicle with proper militance. 

if you have a 3 cylinder vits you will see a huge acceleration benefit  !!

 

 

Thanks. How many Km per Litre are you getting on the axio?

[noddy]

axio gives good miles that depends on the driving style and the no of kilometers. if you go for 20 kilometers and had 3 stops i.e EV miles are less you get 16 KMPL and 20 kilometers with no stops and EV high you get 20-22.

this depends on the EV miles and the hybrid battery as the more miles on EV you get more KMPL. The Prius gives more miles as it has a larger battery.

 

[Dee Jay]

On 1/17/2023 at 9:24 AM, HelaS said:

Thanks, iRage. I wanted to switch because of fuel costs but you've made some valid points. I will think of all this before making decision. Thank you.

Since you have mentioned the fuel costs as the main reason, may I know your commuting style? Eg: Is it for your daily drive to work and a road trip now and then? How is the level of traffic in your usual route? How long is your usual commute?

You should choose a hybrid based on the above.. If your commute is in a highly congested area and the trip is short you might not see a huge benefit in fuel costs as well.. And if your commute is like that you should look into Honda IMA hybrids (Fit GP1, Fit Shuttle of the same era, Insight and the FD3. This is because if your running on a very high traffic zone and short distances the hybrid battery would drain and the engine would kick in to charge the batteries which would in turn burn more fuel but since your commute is short the car won't be able to compensate the fuel that was burned by its high efficiency.. The Toyota hybrids are also suitable for high traffic areas but then that would cause their batteries to degrade very quickly.. When it comes to Toyota hybrids the batteries aren't reliable therefore whatever you save on fuel you would have to spend on a new battery.. However, Honda hybrid batteries are more reliable hence less maintenance cost do keep in mind that the Honda hybrids with DCTs (Vezel, GP5, Grace etc) aren't suited for driving in very high traffic scenarios which would result in the famous dual clutch issue..

[HelaS]

4 hours ago, Dee Jay said:

Since you have mentioned the fuel costs as the main reason, may I know your commuting style? Eg: Is it for your daily drive to work and a road trip now and then? How is the level of traffic in your usual route? How long is your usual commute?

You should choose a hybrid based on the above.. If your commute is in a highly congested area and the trip is short you might not see a huge benefit in fuel costs as well.. And if your commute is like that you should look into Honda IMA hybrids (Fit GP1, Fit Shuttle of the same era, Insight and the FD3. This is because if your running on a very high traffic zone and short distances the hybrid battery would drain and the engine would kick in to charge the batteries which would in turn burn more fuel but since your commute is short the car won't be able to compensate the fuel that was burned by its high efficiency.. The Toyota hybrids are also suitable for high traffic areas but then that would cause their batteries to degrade very quickly.. When it comes to Toyota hybrids the batteries aren't reliable therefore whatever you save on fuel you would have to spend on a new battery.. However, Honda hybrid batteries are more reliable hence less maintenance cost do keep in mind that the Honda hybrids with DCTs (Vezel, GP5, Grace etc) aren't suited for driving in very high traffic scenarios which would result in the famous dual clutch issue..

Thank you. My scenario is mostly outstation driving...e.g. A9 Road, expressway, maybe a few B-roads. Nothing really trafficky. How prevalent is the dual clutch issue in these Hondas? Also would an Axio made around 2013 still be good mechanically (apart from the battery)?

[Dee Jay]

5 hours ago, HelaS said:

Thank you. My scenario is mostly outstation driving...e.g. A9 Road, expressway, maybe a few B-roads. Nothing really trafficky. How prevalent is the dual clutch issue in these Hondas? Also would an Axio made around 2013 still be good mechanically (apart from the battery)?

If it's outstation that you are looking for then your best bet would be Honda hybrid even the ones with DCTs.. The ones with DCTs would be more suitable for long trips as they pack more power and are fuel efficient at the same time containing better options in terms of comfort and safety.

The dual clutch issue is a combination of both ill maintenance and lack of knowledge on how to drive them so as long as you get one in good condition and do the timely oil changes you'll be fine.. there are Vezels that have run over 300,000km with the original dual clutch (used mostly for outstation and highway runs).

Axios have the ABS related issue as well apart from the battery worries and you are bound to get bored with it if your interested in driving as the car is not really exciting nor engaging to drive..

[iRage]

13 hours ago, HelaS said:

How prevalent is the dual clutch issue in these Hondas? Also would an Axio made around 2013 still be good mechanically (apart from the battery)?

Let's get one thing straight. The dual clutch issue is NOT an issue with the car. The issue is on usage conditions in SL... mainly the way people drive cars in SL and how they maintain it (which is quite poor as every owner wants to do little as possible yet just enough for the car to look shiny and run until he/she sells it off...especially the Hybrid cars). So...as @Dee Jay mentioned...it is a luck of the draw sort of thing. In fact, a car that has never had issues with the DCT might have the issue because of you. 

If your driving is going to be mostly outstation; then go for the Honda option. The Grace, Fit and Vezel are much more refined cars than the Axio. This is terms of safety features, driving performance to creature comforts. The Axio is actually based on the Vitz platform of the same period (so the 2013 Axio would be built on the 2010-2020 Toyota Vitz platform). 

As for the Axio ABS issue (the "issue" comes most predominantly in the 140 series and some of the 160 series), again, just like the Honda; it is not something wrong with the car, but more or less how we Lankans drive and maintain the cars. Brake fluid needs to be replaced every 2 years. 99% of the users out there do not do that. As contaminated fluid circulates within the system, it just corrodes and clogs up the components.

The crawl and brake type of driving we do in SL in traffic is not good on any car's transmission and brake components. 

For reference, replacing the ABS "module" can be an easier job than replacing the clutch pack.

So even though the ABS thing is a smaller job...go for a Honda if you want driving pleasure. Although I still think you should just do some basic mods to the Vitz and hold on to it. Having said that...going uphill and outstation at high speeds, Honda's Hybrid system would be much better as it does a better job in working with the petrol engine. Older Toyota Hybrids tend to run on the petrol engine most of the time under similar conditions.

[HelaS]

Could someone clarify what kind of driving causes this infamous DCT issue? My father in law has been driving a Vezel for 5-6 years with no issue, but that too in outstation mostly.

Thanks for the replies.

[iRage]

7 hours ago, HelaS said:

Could someone clarify what kind of driving causes this infamous DCT issue? My father in law has been driving a Vezel for 5-6 years with no issue, but that too in outstation mostly.

Thanks for the replies.

As I mentioned before...driving in crawling traffic crawling through traffic with the foot on the brake (where the transmission is neither fully engaged or disengaged) and sudden stop and go in traffic (mixed in with high operating temperatures) causes the transmission and other components to heat up. This is not just a Honda thing. It is common to all DCTs (it is just that wet DCTs handle things a lot better than dry ones as the oil helps absorb and dissipate heat).

Rather than crawling, ideally with a DCT you should let the traffic in front of you create some space and then gently drive in (in SL this is not possible as some @#$# will just simply creep into the gap and cut you off). This also leads to a better stop and go behaviour as you are not suddenly punching on the accelerator and suddenly jamming on the brakes. Instead you will gently tap on the accelerator and start moving forward. 

Mic this together with poor maintenance....you are looking at a bucket full of trouble. As for your father-in-law's car. It is no surprise that he has not had DCT issues because he drives long distances outstation (i.e. does not drive in typical Sri Lankan traffic congestion in a typical Sri Lankan manner every day).

This is also the reason why we said that if you are looking at mainly outstation driving...look at the Honda options.

[HelaS]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

As I mentioned before...driving in crawling traffic crawling through traffic with the foot on the brake (where the transmission is neither fully engaged or disengaged) and sudden stop and go in traffic (mixed in with high operating temperatures) causes the transmission and other components to heat up. This is not just a Honda thing. It is common to all DCTs (it is just that wet DCTs handle things a lot better than dry ones as the oil helps absorb and dissipate heat).

Rather than crawling, ideally with a DCT you should let the traffic in front of you create some space and then gently drive in (in SL this is not possible as some @#$# will just simply creep into the gap and cut you off). This also leads to a better stop and go behaviour as you are not suddenly punching on the accelerator and suddenly jamming on the brakes. Instead you will gently tap on the accelerator and start moving forward. 

Mic this together with poor maintenance....you are looking at a bucket full of trouble. As for your father-in-law's car. It is no surprise that he has not had DCT issues because he drives long distances outstation (i.e. does not drive in typical Sri Lankan traffic congestion in a typical Sri Lankan manner every day).

This is also the reason why we said that if you are looking at mainly outstation driving...look at the Honda options.

Thanks iRage. For the sake of knowledge, what kind of special maintenance does a hybrid car require, and how often? In contrast to a normal car, that is. Please excuse my ignorance.

[Dee Jay]

1 hour ago, HelaS said:

what kind of special maintenance does a hybrid car require, and how often? In contrast to a normal car, that is

I am an owner of Honda IMA hybrid for the past 7 years and no such specific maintenance required as such (at least for the Honda hybrids).. For the i-DCD Honda hybrids the dual clutch oil (NOT transmission oil) should be replaced once in every 20,000 km as per the agent (not an expensive thing).

For Toyota hybrids the battery cooling vent needs to be cleaned regularly (preferably every service) as its located in a place that can get easily clogged. Apart from that Toyota hybrid batteries are known for oxidization so that should also be addressed during a battery service.. 

Everything else is just like a normal car.. engine oil change, transmission oil change, spark plugs change, AC service, brake oil change suspension repairs etc.

[iRage]

On 1/23/2023 at 12:43 AM, HelaS said:

Thanks iRage. For the sake of knowledge, what kind of special maintenance does a hybrid car require, and how often? In contrast to a normal car, that is. Please excuse my ignorance.

To be honest....where daily use is concerned, nothing that drastically different (as you can see from @Dee Jay response) from a gasoline car. However, all these service stations will beg to differ and paint scary stories and talk about complicated procedures to maintain it in the interest of charging exorbitant prices (heck in SL even cleaning the undercarriage has become a HUGE costly process...WTAF !). So find yourself a GOOD service center.

When I said that the maintenance of a Hybrid car can outweigh the petrol savings from the Vitz and both end up costing the same, I meant:

The cost of fixing hidden/unknown issues and doing things like having to replace faulty batteries, motors, other hybrid components , general repairs that are preemptive or undoing bad workmanship will eat away at fuel cost savings from the Vitz (there are things you will have to do no matter what type of car you buy (remember you are looking at cars that are nearly a decade old...it is the risk of buying an old car that youdo not know anything about).

There is a thread on buying a second hand car in SL...You should go through it.

Assuming you have a really good car at hand and you are looking at daily maintenance:

You just need to check the battery status and any issues with other components (cooling system, electric motors, etc...). This usually includes a simple diagnostic scan of the car and if needed getting readings off the battery and similar components; clean air ventilation ducts, etc...apart from that it is just a matter of maintaining it just like a gasoline car,changing oil, brake fluid, etc.. at proper intervals.

The relatively complicated and potentially expensive (in SL) work comes in if and when the batteries go bad or there is something wrong with the motor, etc..

The maintenance of a Hybrid can be a costly headache IF you end up buying a bad car. There are plenty of Hybrid cars out there in the market where maka baases and cheap owners have done shoddy work to fix batteries and by-pass control systems for the sake of improving performance (we have idiots in the country who believe that some random guy in a hut who has never touched a car knows and can do better than years of manufacturers' R&D and world-class engineers).

Edited January 24, 2023 by iRage

[noddy]

well comparing your 3 cylinder Vitz the Axio/Aqua has a lot of power.

The axio has 75 horse power for a 1.5 and the hybrid takes it to 100 so that is pretty good. (20 cells * rate 7.5 per cell)

if you take the small turbo that to do 7-8 in the city. and the diesels 2.5 with manuals gears it takes a month of Sundays to 

get a good speed. 

in the hybrid the speed comes instant !!!. i.e electric charge comes pretty quick.

[HelaS]

On an unrelated subject...how much might be the cost for the following if done by Toy#ta L#nka for routine maintenance of my Vitz. Its done around 82000 km, so perhaps some things are due around 100000 km?

Gearbox oil change

Brake fluid change 

Spark plug change 

Cabin air filter and AC filter change 

If any other suggestions please share. This is my first car so I'm not very knowledgeable. TIA.

[Dee Jay]

19 minutes ago, HelaS said:

how much might be the cost for the following if done by Toy#ta L#nka for routine maintenance of my Vitz.

Why not just call them and see?? Most probably around 100k with the prices these days..

[iRage]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:23 PM, HelaS said:

Gearbox oil change

Just so you know....your CVT fluid should have been changed quite a few times by now. Depending on usage it can be anything between 20,000 to 50,000 km between changes (in Japan they recommend 20,000km... but over here it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do it).

Your brake fluid should be replaced every 20,000km or 2 years, whichever comes first. So I hope you didn't wait till 100K to do it. 

Same with coolant fluid. You need to replace it every 3 years or so. If not, it gets contaminated with rust and stuff and start creating havoc.

Spark plugs....depending on what type of plugs it has..yes..it may need to be changed.

You might want to look into the fuel filter and cleaning the injectors as well and maybe even clean the throttle body whilst you are at it.

Beyond that you should just do an inspection and fix/replace as needed (e.g. inspect and clean the brakes and if needed change pads, rotor, etc...) check suspension components, engine mounts, etc...replace as needed.

Mind you.... these are things you will have to do even if you buy a new car. With your current car you know its history so you can decide what you must do and what you can put off for another day. With a new used car you have no idea what is lurking underneath, and you need to go ahead and do it anyway.

 

 

[HelaS]

Thank you. The car had 60000 km done when importing, so I'll definitely keep these things in mind at the next service, which is due soon.

[noddy]

well for the initial inspection you can go to TL but i do my repairs at Taridu Auto there are very good toyota and hybrid placed

Good luck

[Uditha Ishan]

Is the Dual clutch issue repairable? Is it costly thing? I guess yes.

I'm looking to buy a Honda car as my first vehicle.

[matroska]

52 minutes ago, Uditha Ishan said:

Is the Dual clutch issue repairable? Is it costly thing? I guess yes.

I'm looking to buy a Honda car as my first vehicle.

  Dual Clutch issue is repairable

Cost - not sure I’d say agents would quote an arm and a leg : but since more and more places do the repair prices tend to be competitive. I think cost is around 100,000 maybe 150ish.  There are decent places that do the repair and some give a warranty as well. Call a few places and see and get their quotes.

Other than that nothing too bad about getting a Honda Hybrid(I assume as the majority dct cars in SL are vezel grace and fit gp5 )Batteries tend to last longer compared to Toyotas and you get comparitively more bang for the buck. 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by matroska

[Uditha Ishan]

7 minutes ago, matroska said:

  Dual Clutch issue is repairable

Cost - not sure I’d say agents would quote an arm and a leg : but since more and more places do the repair prices tend to be competitive. I think cost is anyway under 100,000 There are decent places that do the repair and some give a warranty as well. Call a few places and see and get their quotes.

Other than that nothing too bad about getting a Honda Hybrid(I assume as the majority dct cars in SL are vezel grace and fit gp5 )Batteries tend to last longer compared to Toyotas and you get comparitively more bang for the buck. 

 

Thank you.