Civic FD1, 2, 3 or 4

[Isuru Adhikari]

Is it worth buying a Honda civic in Sri Lanka?

If so, what will be the best purchases? FD1, 2, 3 or 4? (Year 2006 -2011)

[fiat fan]

 FD1 is the best (unless you find a fd2)

FD1- 1.8L engine. Good power and good economy. Around 8kmpl city and 14kmpl outstation. Has options like paddle shifters and sunroof.

FD2- it’s the type R. Very rare and very expensive. I imagine you know what the type R is.

FD3- hybrid. Battery is bit weak. Not a big gain financially because money saved in petrol will be sent on the hybrid bits. There was a member here who had one. Only model to have 8 airbags IIRC.

FD4- basic and underpowered. 1.6L engine thats not that fun,little slow and not that economical overall. 9.5 city and 12kmpl outstation. Car too heavy for that engine.

Find a manual FD1. Best economy and power!

 

[Isuru Adhikari]

19 minutes ago, fiat fan said:

 FD1 is the best (unless you find a fd2)

FD1- 1.8L engine. Good power and good economy. Around 8kmpl city and 14kmpl outstation. Has options like paddle shifters and sunroof.

FD2- it’s the type R. Very rare and very expensive. I imagine you know what the type R is.

FD3- hybrid. Battery is bit weak. Not a big gain financially because money saved in petrol will be sent on the hybrid bits. There was a member here who had one. Only model to have 8 airbags IIRC.

FD4- basic and underpowered. 1.6L engine thats not that fun,little slow and not that economical overall. 9.5 city and 12kmpl outstation. Car too heavy for that engine.

Find a manual FD1. Best economy and power!

 

Thanks bro,

Hoping for a FD1 and thanks for confirming. 

[matroska]

14 hours ago, fiat fan said:

 FD1 is the best (unless you find a fd2)

FD1- 1.8L engine. Good power and good economy. Around 8kmpl city and 14kmpl outstation. Has options like paddle shifters and sunroof.

FD2- it’s the type R. Very rare and very expensive. I imagine you know what the type R is.

FD3- hybrid. Battery is bit weak. Not a big gain financially because money saved in petrol will be sent on the hybrid bits. There was a member here who had one. Only model to have 8 airbags IIRC.

FD4- basic and underpowered. 1.6L engine thats not that fun,little slow and not that economical overall. 9.5 city and 12kmpl outstation. Car too heavy for that engine.

Find a manual FD1. Best economy and power!

 

FD2 Super rare. 

FD1 - Rare but available.

FD3  - Exceeded my expectations when I took @Dee Jays for a little spin. Hybrid drive train has held up pretty well compared to other hybrids. 

FD4 - Commonly imported b/new back in the day. 

while FD1 is the top of the ladder FD3's and 4's are waaaaay better than the options in that budget. 

On 12/13/2023 at 11:11 PM, Isuru Adhikari said:

Is it worth buying a Honda civic in Sri Lanka?

Nothing is 'worth' buying in Sri Lanka but hey we have to make do with what we have  so yeah 5 million spent on a FD series Civic is worth than the same spent on a 121 which probably goes for the same price now. 

 

[Dee Jay]

On 12/13/2023 at 11:11 PM, Isuru Adhikari said:

Is it worth buying a Honda civic in Sri Lanka?

Well, in Sri Lanka like @matroska mentioned nothing is worth the price tag at the moment. However, in the current context if it is worth or not boils down to the fact how much of a value you perceive from that thing. So, it's solely up to you to decide. But, of course when considering the other options going for the same budget it is much more car for the money you spent.

Since, I have been owning a FD3 for 8 years now I'll say that the FD3 is the best all rounder and the best daily driver out of the FD series Civics in Sri Lanka.

If you are looking for a performance car then it's the FD2R (Type R) you should go for. I don't know if there are any FD2 (2000CC JDM highest spec) cars in Sri Lanka, though we have a few FD2R examples available; but they are very very expensive.

Since, @fiat fan as a former owner of a FD1S has summarized the FD series above I'll just correct the FD3 part..

19 hours ago, fiat fan said:

FD3- hybrid. Battery is bit weak. Not a big gain financially because money saved in petrol will be sent on the hybrid bits. There was a member here who had one. Only model to have 8 airbags IIRC.

Hybrid battery is not weak if the condition is good. I have been running on the same hybrid battery since 2016 without issues and the FD3 is far more reliable than the Toyota hybrid models that are even newer than the FD3. You have ample pickup and sufficient power in the car and it is way better than the Toyota 1500cc offerings and carries the same handling of the FD1 and FD4 and even better sometimes with the lower ground clearance and due to having the battery behind the rear seats. When it comes to efficiency the FD3 is the best giving around 9-14kmpl in heavy traffic 15-18kmpl in moderate traffic and 18-23kmpl + in outstation or low traffic runs. The FD3 also is the most equipped model out of the cars you get here with JDM variants having smart keyless entry, Adaptive Cruise Control, City Brake System, Alcantara interior, HID headlights, multi-function steering, VSA etc.

Below is an extract from Honda themselves mentioning the driving dynamics and the fuel efficiency of the FD3..

 

If you are hoping to get a FD1, try to get the FD1 JDM GL grade. It only lacks the sun-roof of the FD1S (Stafford imported highest grade), but it has EPS (electronic power steering) like the FD3 and this is more economical and reliable than the FD1S which is prone to power steering leaks due to having a HPS and lacks some other bells and whistles like VSA.

19 hours ago, Isuru Adhikari said:

Hoping for a FD1

Edited December 18, 2023 by Dee Jay

[iRage]

I think the first and foremost question to ask is...Why do you want a FD series Civic ?

That determines a lot as to which model you should try to get.

[iRage]

10 hours ago, Dee Jay said:

Hybrid battery is not weak if the condition is good.

Actually he does have a point there....this was one of the reasons the car didn't do that well in Japan (second was that it was the first car in the segment to become a 3 number car. At the time that meant higher taxes). The Hybrid system was known to have issues with the earlier models early on. It had something to do with the battery getting drained off abnormally and that resulting in potential excessive/premature battery wear. The issue was in Hondas when the IMA does stop working the performance drop is quite noticeable (in a Toyota you don't feel it as much sue to the setup).

10 hours ago, Dee Jay said:

the FD3 is far more reliable than the Toyota hybrid models that are even newer than the FD3.

Speculative. I would be willing to bet that this has more to do with the type of people who bought the Toyotas vs. those who bought the Honda. Not to sound snobbish but I don't expect the average Aqua, Prius, Axio hybrid owner to have been the type to buy a Honda. When they did...well...as the FK Civic showed...things don't go too well.

10 hours ago, Dee Jay said:

Below is an extract from Honda themselves mentioning the driving dynamics and the fuel efficiency of the FD3..

Well...you can't expect the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the manufacturer's own marketing material can you ? Can't see any manufacturer saying our EHEV Civic is less fuel efficient than Toyota's 5th gen HSD or..ePower is not as efficient as eHEV, etc...

FYI....JC08 was highly criticized by the Japanese government due to consumer complaints. Japanese regulations dictated that cars can be at most 70% less efficient in the real-world than the JC08 figures. This meant the manufacturers did everything possible to just be 70% efficient of what there tested JC08 figure was (the tests themselves were carried out under ideal circumstances). So...if a car's published JC08 figure was 25kmpl...then in reality under best circumstances it would have averaged 17kmpl. Because of all this now the main standard is WLTC although they still do publish estimated JC08 figures as well.

[Dee Jay]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Actually he does have a point there....this was one of the reasons the car didn't do that well in Japan (second was that it was the first car in the segment to become a 3 number car. At the time that meant higher taxes). The Hybrid system was known to have issues with the earlier models early on. It had something to do with the battery getting drained off abnormally and that resulting in potential excessive/premature battery wear. The issue was in Hondas when the IMA does stop working the performance drop is quite noticeable (in a Toyota you don't feel it as much sue to the setup).

Yes, the original hybrid batteries on the Civic hybrid were not reliable.. But, then again 16 years from YOM these cars don't contain the original hybrid batteries anymore. So, what is done in Sri Lanka is to take the cells from GP1, GP2, Insight, CRZ and build the battery pack.. Those cells doesn't have the problems you mentioned. With my ownership experience I can attest to that. Yes, when the battery is weak, there's a significant drop in performance of Honda IMA hybrids and that has lead to the conclusions in the Sri Lankan market that the FD3 is sluggish, can't climb a hill etc. This was mainly due to the fact that many early cars had the battery issue you mentioned and the owners not going for a replacement battery leading to the power issues and the general conception in the public. So, when that issue is sorted it cannot be considered as having a weak battery.

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Speculative. I would be willing to bet that this has more to do with the type of people who bought the Toyotas vs. those who bought the Honda. Not to sound snobbish but I don't expect the average Aqua, Prius, Axio hybrid owner to have been the type to buy a Honda. When they did...well...as the FK Civic showed...things don't go too well.

Well, you can speculate it that way. However, under Sri Lankan conditions the average life span of a new Toyota NiMh hybrid battery pack is maximum 5 years. You see 2017/2018 Aqua/Axio getting their battery changed now which is not the case for the Honda hybrids. And add to that the brake system issues. When it comes to the FD3 it is 16 years old and now is the time the brake accumulators are starting to give up.. So, there's a clear difference in the reliability with HSD and the IMA systems primarily maybe due to the design and excessive use of the battery by HSD.

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Well...you can't expect the whole truth and nothing but the truth from the manufacturer's own marketing material can you ? Can't see any manufacturer saying our EHEV Civic is less fuel efficient than Toyota's 5th gen HSD or..ePower is not as efficient as eHEV, etc...

FYI....JC08 was highly criticized by the Japanese government due to consumer complaints. Japanese regulations dictated that cars can be at most 70% less efficient in the real-world than the JC08 figures. This meant the manufacturers did everything possible to just be 70% efficient of what there tested JC08 figure was (the tests themselves were carried out under ideal circumstances). So...if a car's published JC08 figure was 25kmpl...then in reality under best circumstances it would have averaged 17kmpl. Because of all this now the main standard is WLTC although they still do publish estimated JC08 figures as well.

Well, it contains all the relevant details here isn't it. They are not comparing it with the other brands ne.. All I can say is, this car even after 16 years running can achieve closer to the advertised figures in certain conditions (and not only me many owners do achieve that constantly).

And besides I know the JC08 cycle is a bit over enthusiastic, that's why I have provided figures you can expect in real world in Sri Lankan conditions  I haven't hit 25kmpl in my ownership and the best I have had is 23+. So, it is closer to what is advertised and 25 is advertised for the cars with those ugly aero dynamic wheels which I don't have in mine  

 

[matroska]

5 hours ago, iRage said:

Speculative. I would be willing to bet that this has more to do with the type of people who bought the Toyotas vs. those who bought the Honda.

Could it also do with the overall architecture of IMA vs HSD. IMA was at best a mild hybrid system - as opposed to HSD.??? The tradeoff was fuel economy?

The early Honda Hybrids were nominal hybrids. I.e : the FD3's GP1's GP2's and insights had fuel economy that was on par with a small engined ICE car. 

The previous decade was the hybrid craze and friends, relatives, colleagues all bought Hybrids. Down the line it was clear the Toyota batteries just simply died quicker- even the people who cut no corners in preventive maintenance. 

 

5 hours ago, iRage said:

Not to sound snobbish but I don't expect the average Aqua, Prius, Axio hybrid owner to have been the type to buy a Honda

They actually did from 2011-2016. Tour operators bought the GP2 Shuttle by the cartload and the GP1 was cheaper than the aqua so many bought it. Those were serially abused on the same scale as an aqua.  For some reason the 2010-2015 ish Honda hybrids (GP1 oil burn apart) could cop some abuse. It all changed with the DCT trio  and the FK6's though  

[iRage]

3 hours ago, Dee Jay said:

Yes, the original hybrid batteries on the Civic hybrid were not reliable.. But, then again 16 years from YOM these cars don't contain the original hybrid batteries anymore. So, what is done in Sri Lanka is to take the cells from GP1, GP2, Insight, CRZ and build the battery pack.. Those cells doesn't have the problems you mentioned. With my ownership experience I can attest to that. Yes, when the battery is weak, there's a significant drop in performance of Honda IMA hybrids and that has lead to the conclusions in the Sri Lankan market that the FD3 is sluggish, can't climb a hill etc. This was mainly due to the fact that many early cars had the battery issue you mentioned and the owners not going for a replacement battery leading to the power issues and the general conception in the public. So, when that issue is sorted it cannot be considered as having a weak battery.

Well, you can speculate it that way. However, under Sri Lankan conditions the average life span of a new Toyota NiMh hybrid battery pack is maximum 5 years. You see 2017/2018 Aqua/Axio getting their battery changed now which is not the case for the Honda hybrids. And add to that the brake system issues. When it comes to the FD3 it is 16 years old and now is the time the brake accumulators are starting to give up.. So, there's a clear difference in the reliability with HSD and the IMA systems primarily maybe due to the design and excessive use of the battery by HSD.

Well, it contains all the relevant details here isn't it. They are not comparing it with the other brands ne.. All I can say is, this car even after 16 years running can achieve closer to the advertised figures in certain conditions (and not only me many owners do achieve that constantly).

And besides I know the JC08 cycle is a bit over enthusiastic, that's why I have provided figures you can expect in real world in Sri Lankan conditions  I haven't hit 25kmpl in my ownership and the best I have had is 23+. So, it is closer to what is advertised and 25 is advertised for the cars with those ugly aero dynamic wheels which I don't have in mine  

 

I am sorry but you are being extremely biased here and not being objective with the advice. The Honda Civic is not the trouble-free car that your post might be misinterpreted to be.

Yes...Toyotas of a certain era had AC compressor issues, brake component issues, etc...but then so did the FD series Civic. Japanese service bulletins themselves show replacement/upgrade requirements for engine mounts, check and replace requirements for transmission seals, AC clutch issues, etc... (on top of the FD3 early battery issues).

People go with the norm rather than the exception. Even with Toyota hybrids there are those that have run a lot more than 5 years (even 10) without issues. But that does not mean it is the norm. Don't you think objectively that would apply to the Civic FD3 as well? You by your own admission stated that people had to resort to replacing battery cells/packs from other models, etc...for starters it is because Honda never fully resolved the issue in the first place for those who got the early models. Now...if this is the majority of what is seen then people do perceive it to be the case (just as you did with the Toyota Hybrids).

Again....in reality a lot of it has to do with the kind of people buying each type of vehicle. A Honda owner is more likely to go the extent and find the proper parts, enjoy driving, etc..whilst an average Prius/Aqua owner would not. They would go for the cheapest alternative you can ever find to get the car running (if costs too much sell it off with a band-aid fix) and then drive like a dead tortoise hypermiling all over the road inadvertently killing the HSD and the car (there are people who still do not realize that the battery needs to go through proper charge-discarge cycles. Sri Lankans are going to freak out with the new Hybrid systems as they would rarely charge up to a 100%).

I am not saying the FD3 is a bad car...it is one of the nicer all-round Hybrid cars to drive from the era (assuming it is fully functional).

But...it DOES have its flaws where when purchasing (or considering to purchase) one has to be mindful and be open to accept it all (not every FD3 is @Dee Jay's FD3 that has been loved and taken care of ).

Frankly...given the choice....I would go with a FD4 over a FD3 as one might have a better chance of finding a cleaner car with a proper service history (since FD3s are relatively rarer). I think @fiat fanmentioned it was not that powerful but considering the other options it is not bad at all (the 1.6 has about 123? hp compared to about 108hp in something like a 1.5L Axio...granted the Civic might be about an average human-baby heavier though). Also, I thought the agents brought down a few FD2s but I might be mistaken. 

Now....when @fiat fan said the battery was weak....well...he had a point because the issue was that the battery didn't hold charge. Thus, for most it is perceived as battery being weak and not software issues.

Also...I don't think most of the AL forum members' rides actually is representative of the general case of any of the vehicle models we own (heck one might think 80s Alfas were built out of stainless steel if we go buy our members' cars..or that Toyota paint was eternal). We do tend to take care of our cars above what can be considered average.

[iRage]

18 hours ago, matroska said:

Could it also do with the overall architecture of IMA vs HSD. IMA was at best a mild hybrid system - as opposed to HSD.??? The tradeoff was fuel economy?

Yes...the IMA was an assistive system whilst the HSD was a direct drive approach.

18 hours ago, matroska said:

Down the line it was clear the Toyota batteries just simply died quicker- even the people who cut no corners in preventive maintenance. 

Again....it was due to how the system worked (and the battery tech too). Toyota's old HSD did put a heavy strain on the battery. Add to the fact that people did not drive them properly created a situation where the battery did not go through a proper charge-discharge cycle. I am saying this because although I too was pessimistic in the beginning, I have seen many 2nd gen Priuses that have done 500,000km on their original battery and HSD components. The 2nd and 3rd gen Priuses were popular taxis (EDIT : In Japan, before Hybrid Sientas came about..also my father-in-law's Aqua is now 9 years old and has about 120,000km, still with original battery. Context/environment also plays a lot here I suppose).

18 hours ago, matroska said:

Tour operators bought the GP2 Shuttle by the cartload and the GP1 was cheaper than the aqua so many bought it.

I forgot about the tour operators. Also, I am pretty sure the GPx Fit had a 2nd gen system than the FD3. ALso I do think the 2nd gen Fit was one of Honda's better products during the period. Had a lot more improvements than the 1st gen and then things slid down a bit with the 3rd gen.

Edited December 20, 2023 by iRage

[Dee Jay]

2 hours ago, iRage said:

I am sorry but you are being extremely biased here and not being objective with the advice. The Honda Civic is not the trouble-free car that your post might be misinterpreted to be.

Well @iRage I think you have misunderstood my whole point. The point I was trying to strike simply was, if the OP is looking at a FD series Civic as a daily driver, the FD3 would be the best. I have addressed the point of fuel efficiency and power since @fiat fan had mentioned that the battery is weak and the fuel savings would be off set with the repair bill  

A liter of petrol 92 is now LKR 350 odd and with the imposition of VAT next year it is likely to pass the LKR 400 mark and a full tank would cost around 16,000 LKR which is a significant amount given the fact it used to be around 5,000 LKR a couple of years back.

Being a current owner and a member of the owners group related to the model I'm aware of the repairs other fellow owners come across with the FD series (inclusive of FD1 and FD4), so all those things were considered when providing the above feedback.

And besides, I have also mentioned in my original post if the OP is decided on going for a FD1, which grade would be the best to go far. 

I have also mentioned, if performance is what he is looking for to go for the FD2R.

So, you calling me extremely biased with my advice is something I think is unjust, I must strictly mention

And in a Sri Lankan context, the FD3 and other IMA hybrids have faired better as a hybrid vehicle that's what I wanted to say be it due to how the owners have taken care of/ used or due to the differences in architecture of the systems. I am not saying its trouble free, but relatively it is less of a hassle and closer to a non-hybrid counter part since it is an assist system to the engine.

2 hours ago, iRage said:

You by your own admission stated that people had to resort to replacing battery cells/packs from other models, etc...for starters it is because Honda never fully resolved the issue in the first place for those who got the early models.

Yes, I mentioned that. From 2009 onwards, that issue was resolved in the FD3 with a new battery cell type and software updates which were covered under warranty in other countries (the premature failure of FD3 hybrid batteries is a well known scenario globally). This cell type is used in the newer GP series, Insight etc. However, in Sri Lanka this wasn't covered under warranty as these were grey imports  However, I remember @ramishkad mentioning in the forum how he got a replacement battery under warranty during his ownership. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by Dee Jay

[fiat fan]

We actually did have a hybrid fd3 alongside the fd1 that belonged to a cousin.
The fd3 is not known for its durability or its economy. IF you find a good example, it’ll be ok. But other than that, it’s not worth it.

Most in Lanka are hacked and the cell replacement almost never works. An aqua I know got cells replaced, but even that did not last long. It was replaced by the famous cell guy in the gampaha side. 
 

Also on the FD1s with the hps, yes it leaked every 10 years. Worth it because the eps was worse to drive.

 

Also a plus for the FD1. Resale and maintenance is easier since most people don’t like to buy or repair hybrids.

but thats just my personal experience.