Hybrid Vs Non-Hybrid

Magnum · June 6, 2015

Yeah on long drives it does between 20-24 depending on the road. If its downhill (say from Kandy till Yakkala it will do around 30 if driven very carefully in traffic less times). Uphill it will do around 20. Its hopeless when it comes to short distance travelling in traffic. </p></blockquote>

Then I don't think there's anything to worry about

Indrajeedez · June 6, 2015

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Indrajeedez" data-cid="278280" data-time="1433560107"><p>
Yeah on long drives it does between 20-24 depending on the road. If its downhill (say from Kandy till Yakkala it will do around 30 if driven very carefully in traffic less times). Uphill it will do around 20. Its hopeless when it comes to short distance travelling in traffic. </p></blockquote>

Then I don't think there's anything to worry about

Its not about mileage really....just wondering whether the total cost of ownership is worth it since I'm only running short distance now.

The Don · June 6, 2015

Its not about mileage really....just wondering whether the total cost of ownership is worth it since I'm only running short distance now.

If you don't do a lot of miles a hybrid is pointless. The battery will die on you due to not being used enough and you would not have recouped the extra money for the repairs from better fuel economy but not doing enough miles.

ramishkad · June 7, 2015

From my experience, Hybrids would only be beneficial if you run a lot of long distance miles.

Im driving a Civic hybrid for 1.5+ years and it gives the following figures in terms of f/e:

9-12kmpl heavy stop and go traffic

12-16kmpl moving traffic

16-20kmpl long distance

20-24kmpl highways

I run about 1500-2000km per month , about 50% city (Colombo, including rush hours) and 50% long distance, and the average f/e for my mixed city driving is 16kmpl.

So as you can see it's not much of a difference in city traffic and definitely not a magic fuel saver when it comes to that. If I was running only in the city, i'd actually go for a non-hybrid vehicle. For my current driving pattern it suits me, likewise the 'benefits of a hybrid', if any, are heavily dependent on the use case of each individual and that's why people shouldn't buy them as a trend.

Also, I firmly believe that one should not buy a hybrid with the mindset of 'fuel saver' in any case. This mindset will make you drive like an asshat on the road, inconveniencing everyone just to save Rs. 1000 at the end of the month. First thing to do when driving a hybrid is turn off or change that goddamn view in the trip meter that shows fuel efficiency for current trip in kmpl. Trust me this would make you enjoy driving more and not fall asleep on the wheel.

Edited June 7, 2015 by ramishkad

Magnum · June 7, 2015

From my experience, Hybrids would only be beneficial if you run a lot of long distance miles.
Im driving a Civic hybrid for 1.5+ years and it gives the following figures in terms of f/e:

9-12kmpl heavy stop and go traffic

12-16kmpl moving traffic

16-20kmpl long distance

20-24kmpl highways

I run about 1500-2000km per month , about 50% city (Colombo, including rush hours) and 50% long distance, and the average f/e for my mixed city driving is 16kmpl.

So as you can see it's not much of a difference in city traffic and definitely not a magic fuel saver when it comes to that. If I was running only in the city, i'd actually go for a non-hybrid vehicle. For my current driving pattern it suits me, likewise the 'benefits of a hybrid', if any, are heavily dependent on the use case of each individual and that's why people shouldn't buy them as a trend.

Also, I firmly believe that one should not buy a hybrid with the mindset of 'fuel saver' in any case. This mindset will make you drive like an asshat on the road, inconveniencing everyone just to save Rs. 1000 at the end of the month. First thing to do when driving a hybrid is turn off or change that goddamn view in the trip meter that shows fuel efficiency for current trip in kmpl. Trust me this would make you enjoy driving more and not fall asleep on the wheel.

I have actually seen couple of Prius drivers clogging the road by constantly looking at the fuel consumption meter. As I'm sitting high up in my Hiace i could very well see them turning their head constantly to look at that display in the middle.

Indrajeedez · June 7, 2015

If you don't do a lot of miles a hybrid is pointless. The battery will die on you due to not being used enough and you would not have recouped the extra money for the repairs from better fuel economy but not doing enough miles.

Tx Don...I was also thinking of the same thing. Selling it is also not going to be easy though

tcfern1 · June 7, 2015

The reason for those who buy hybrids is the low tax.brand new hybrids can be purchased for prices which are very much low than buying a brand new japanese petrol only car.

So on that fact also going for a hybrid is economical

The Don · June 7, 2015

Tx Don...I was also thinking of the same thing. Selling it is also not going to be easy though

The only problem you have is thanks to the crazy tax regime, its become difficult to buy newer non hybrid cars at a reasonable price. Try to opt for something bought under a permit, as these brand new imports are hardier and might weather under use a bit better than some of the JDMs imported with unknown histories.

chan5 · October 6, 2015

on making the decision of my next car.it is absolutely a daily runner.

I do run 4500Kms per month.

which is average 64km drive with zero traffic per day.around 80-100kmph.

two long trips around 800kms each per month.

almost all the time i have no traffic.

i use car daily and almost everyday and being outstation it is difficult to hang up with repairs of my old diesel.

i have done some calculation based on the details i got from owners of each car.please share your views on this.this car is only for 2 year time.

i have made assumptions about fuel price and market value.may someone can shed some light on.

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H.C · October 6, 2015

Both are bit old specially Allion. So you have to add few more to cost of the ownership. Honda GP5 L grade also a option for you. By the looks of the travelling pattern, have you got the post interns appointment, may be to Estern province?

Kavvz · October 6, 2015

on making the decision of my next car.it is absolutely a daily runner.
I do run 4500Kms per month.

which is average 64km drive with zero traffic per day.around 80-100kmph.

two long trips around 800kms each per month.

almost all the time i have no traffic.

i use car daily and almost everyday and being outstation it is difficult to hang up with repairs of my old diesel.

i have done some calculation based on the details i got from owners of each car.please share your views on this.this car is only for 2 year time.

i have made assumptions about fuel price and market value.may someone can shed some light on.

Pretty cool effort.

I do have some questions though: Shouldn't the maintenance costs / service costs be less for the Prius as it will be running in EV mode most of the time with minimum wear on the ICE? Thinking along the same lines: As components such as the braking and cooling system are comparatively under less stress in the Prius; won't they probably last a bit longer and be cheaper to maintain? Or did you consider those savings negligible and discard them?

sasika · October 7, 2015

The difference is that Hybrids are just as economical in town as they are on long runs and since most sri lankans spend more time at low speed, they will always have an economy advantage. The "high risk of electric leaks" in accidents is bullshit, that's a tale created by people like yourself who bought Allions and Axios and were faced with the new concept of depreciation, to ensure that their car's maintain some resale value in the face of the hybrid invasion.

Exactly.. The whole point of hybrids is the economy at stop go traffic. In a expressway, my X1 would achieve the same economy as the vezel (around 18) at 120km/h. Electric shock and burning issues are irrelevant and practically unheard of. Actually the ICE in theory is more vulnerable to explosion than a electric car. Also hybrids will not live long as they will be replaced by EVs. They are more like testing platforms for the EVs

chan5 · October 7, 2015

Pretty cool effort.

I do have some questions though: Shouldn't the maintenance costs / service costs be less for the Prius as it will be running in EV mode most of the time with minimum wear on the ICE? Thinking along the same lines: As components such as the braking and cooling system are comparatively under less stress in the Prius; won't they probably last a bit longer and be cheaper to maintain? Or did you consider those savings negligible and discard them?

Actually being fairly new cars my assumption was this will be free of major hassles and neglected the additional repair costs.

Both are bit old specially Allion. So you have to add few more to cost of the ownership. Honda GP5 L grade also a option for you. By the looks of the travelling pattern, have you got the post interns appointment, may be to Estern province?

Yes,working at eastern provence.I omitted GP5 beacuse I need a sedan car or somewhat larger car like prius.I believe that you know what I am talking about.actually I was using a Carina I regret the decision of disposing it on this particular time.

Also didn't consider insurance costs to the calculation as I was unaware about that costs.

iRage · October 7, 2015

Exactly.. The whole point of hybrids is the economy at stop go traffic.

True...but then that depends on the battery sufficiently charging up at proper intervals. What seems to be happening is that the Hybrids are stuck in traffic for too long that there isn't enough opportunity for the battery to charge up sufficiently...the outcome becomes quite evident. Did I ever mention how the rental Prius I typically hire did about 15-16 kmpl and now does only about 9 on a good day ?

Aquaman · October 7, 2015

If you apply the same theory as a normal car's charging sytem, then Hybrid use in Colombo traffic is not efficient.

Even a normal car's alternator needs at least 15mins of constant normal speed driving to charge battery. Most normal cars that have stop and go or short distance travel will have battery problems after a while that will not be seen in cars that run long distance regularly.

I think same apply ti Hybrid. If someone coming from Ratmalana to colombo daily commute in hybrid, where does he or she get chance for good constant run for at elast 10 mins?

Magnum · October 7, 2015

Pretty cool effort.
I do have some questions though: Shouldn't the maintenance costs / service costs be less for the Prius as it will be running in EV mode most of the time with minimum wear on the ICE? Thinking along the same lines: As components such as the braking and cooling system are comparatively under less stress in the Prius; won't they probably last a bit longer and be cheaper to maintain? Or did you consider those savings negligible and discard them?

I heard using the EV mode often increases the damage on the hybrid battery/powertrain, it makes sense

Rumesh88 · October 7, 2015

If you apply the same theory as a normal car's charging sytem, then Hybrid use in Colombo traffic is not efficient.
Even a normal car's alternator needs at least 15mins of constant normal speed driving to charge battery. Most normal cars that have stop and go or short distance travel will have battery problems after a while that will not be seen in cars that run long distance regularly.

I think same apply ti Hybrid. If someone coming from Ratmalana to colombo daily commute in hybrid, where does he or she get chance for good constant run for at elast 10 mins?

You cannot apply the same theory to a hybrid battery because State of Charge (SOC) of a hybrid battery is maintained by a battery management system and regardless of whether you run a long distance or on a stop and go traffic the management system takes care of the SOC. What is the basis on which you say hybrid use in Colombo traffic is not efficient? Compared to what? It is definitely more efficient to run a hybrid car in stop and go Colombo traffic than a ICE car even when you get 10kmpl on a hybrid (that's exactly what you get if you take the one-hour drive from Battaramulla to Colombo in the morning these days)

H.C · October 7, 2015

Actually being fairly new cars my assumption was this will be free of major hassles and neglected the additional repair costs.
Yes,working at eastern provence.I omitted GP5 beacuse I need a sedan car or somewhat larger car like prius.I believe that you know what I am talking about.actually I was using a Carina I regret the decision of disposing it on this particular time.

Also didn't consider insurance costs to the calculation as I was unaware about that costs.

Get the insurance via GMOA scheme. You can probably get below 50k deal .( Ive got 59k for 47lacks)

iRage · October 7, 2015

....State of Charge (SOC) of a hybrid battery is maintained by a battery management system and regardless of whether you run a long distance or on a stop and go traffic the management system takes care of the SOC.....

Okay..to put what I said in to perspective and a bit more context in to it. I have no idea how the logic in the battery management system works...but this particular Prius for the most part is spends its time stuck in traffic for the better part of the day running errands (so it is not just typical commute to work in the morning and back in the evening scenario...in fact the only time it sees anything resembling an open road is over the weekends...). The battery hardly charges more than 2 (or barely 3) bars and there is a lot of cutting in and out of the ICE. Granted now apparently the battery has gone bad....Looking at the fuel expenses for the car+log we used to get about 11 at the beginning but the most recent audit we did (about 2 months ago) it is barely 9 (i.e. I am rounding up here...and yes our finance head is pedantic about these things...I still find 9kmpl for a 1800cc car stuck in traffic acceptable..)

Yes the management system maintains the SOC...but then again it maintains the minimal required doesn't it ? It is not like it always maintains a full charge. So if the battery is always at a minimum (as in our case) pure battery powered drive cannot be maintained that much (as opposed to how long it can be sustained when the battery is fully charged)?

Anyway...my ultimate point was...to get the 15-16 kmpl people are talking about it has to be a combined cycle...not a strict in-traffic driven scenario.

Rumesh88 · October 7, 2015

Yes the management system maintains the SOC...but then again it maintains the minimal required doesn't it ? It is not like it always maintains a full charge. So if the battery is always at a minimum (as in our case) pure battery powered drive cannot be maintained that much (as opposed to how long it can be sustained when the battery is fully charged)?
Anyway...my ultimate point was...to get the 15-16 kmpl people are talking about it has to be a combined cycle...not a strict in-traffic driven scenario.

True. That's what Toyota has designed it for. There is absolutely no requirement to keep the battery fully charged at a given time. However, if I may clarify my point above, a hybrid car would be more efficient in terms of fuel efficiency whether it is in traffic or otherwise. Of course, continuous use of the battery would weaken it but that is something to do with reliability not efficiency. Once the hybrid battery reliability is gone vehicle efficiency too follows suit.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Rumesh88

sasika · October 7, 2015

True...but then that depends on the battery sufficiently charging up at proper intervals. What seems to be happening is that the Hybrids are stuck in traffic for too long that there isn't enough opportunity for the battery to charge up sufficiently...the outcome becomes quite evident. Did I ever mention how the rental Prius I typically hire did about 15-16 kmpl and now does only about 9 on a good day ?

Yeah once the battery runs out, engine becomes the generator and pumps charge. But in a way this is efficient than just wasting on the sound and heat. But not as much as recognisable

sasika · October 7, 2015

Okay..to put what I said in to perspective and a bit more context in to it. I have no idea how the logic in the battery management system works...but this particular Prius for the most part is spends its time stuck in traffic for the better part of the day running errands (so it is not just typical commute to work in the morning and back in the evening scenario...in fact the only time it sees anything resembling an open road is over the weekends...). The battery hardly charges more than 2 (or barely 3) bars and there is a lot of cutting in and out of the ICE. Granted now apparently the battery has gone bad....Looking at the fuel expenses for the car+log we used to get about 11 at the beginning but the most recent audit we did (about 2 months ago) it is barely 9 (i.e. I am rounding up here...and yes our finance head is pedantic about these things...I still find 9kmpl for a 1800cc car stuck in traffic acceptable..)
Yes the management system maintains the SOC...but then again it maintains the minimal required doesn't it ? It is not like it always maintains a full charge. So if the battery is always at a minimum (as in our case) pure battery powered drive cannot be maintained that much (as opposed to how long it can be sustained when the battery is fully charged)?

Anyway...my ultimate point was...to get the 15-16 kmpl people are talking about it has to be a combined cycle...not a strict in-traffic driven scenario.

Actually Li-ion batteries last longer in a half charge state than fully charging it regularly. It's common to all the batteries of this category. It is actually bad for the lifetime of the battery to constantly charge to the full state and recharge. Battery is at the best durability when it is kept at 20-80%

Magnum · October 7, 2015

Actually Li-ion batteries last longer in a half charge state than fully charging it regularly. It's common to all the batteries of this category. It is actually bad for the lifetime of the battery to constantly charge to the full state and recharge. Battery is at the best durability when it is kept at 20-80%

I read somewhere that hybrid batteries do not charge to the maximum or do not go down completely.

Aquaman · October 7, 2015

What would be the total number of rechargings cycle of your average Hybrid battery?

Aquaman · October 7, 2015

You cannot apply the same theory to a hybrid battery because State of Charge (SOC) of a hybrid battery is maintained by a battery management system and regardless of whether you run a long distance or on a stop and go traffic the management system takes care of the SOC. What is the basis on which you say hybrid use in Colombo traffic is not efficient? Compared to what? It is definitely more efficient to run a hybrid car in stop and go Colombo traffic than a ICE car even when you get 10kmpl on a hybrid (that's exactly what you get if you take the one-hour drive from Battaramulla to Colombo in the morning these days)

ok sorry, I did not tke in to consideration the software help. I was under the impression that battery needs constant high revs like a normal car.