Difficult In Gear Shifting - Tight

[amilaart]

Dear Expert,

I am driving Toyota Starlet EP 91 around 2.5 years . Clock says running millage 170K +.

From few weeks I face gear shifting difficulty.

This is very prominent when starting the car, gear is very tight to move, even when Clutch paddle fully . Then gradually it become normal.

Some times even when driving shifting gear to 1st is tough. feel gear leaver hit something inside. ( this problem arise more than 6 months)

For info, my clutch is in far more bottom end of the paddle ( clutch releasing point) , my friend says driving my car is difficult due to this. but im used to it not face big difficult to drive. Paddle has lot of free movement.

What is the reason for this ?

What are the things need to do for rectify this ?

What are the good practices overcome this kind of issue ?

- Is there any good, reliable garage in Kandy to do this repair. ( specially around Katugastota).

Pls share your views

Thank you

regards

Amila

[Davy]

Might be due to a number of reasons.:

- Clutch needs to be adjusted. Since the release point of the clutch is too close to the floor board, it might not be disengaging fully. This could cause the gear lever to become stiff.

- Worn out gear linkage bushes. (because you randomly find it hard to shift while driving). A visual check will help identify any issue with the bushes.

- Your clutch master cylinder might be having a leaking washer. Overhauling the master cylinder with the repair kit will solve the issue. To check if this is the issue to begin with, when you start the car, let the engine idle for about 30 seconds, press the clutch fully and release it about three times in a pumping fashion and then hold the clutch. Then try to shift. If the gear shifts easily, then it's probably a failing master cylinder.

- Check the state of your transmission oil (gear oil). If it has never been changed, you might have to do a transmission oil change. It also might be because the transmission has an oil leak and is running low on oil.

How's the condition of the clutch? Have you replaced it during the past 2.5 years?

Related threads already in existence:

1. http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/13031-stiff-gear-lever/

2. http://forum.autolanka.com/topic/4300-gear-change-issue/

[harshansenadhir]

most probably the culprit is the clutch mechanism.

If it's a cable clutch, yes you can adjust it, check the ratcheting point whether the outer holds on to mounting/fixing points without moving here and there.

if it's hydraulic, then you have to check both master and slave pumps for leakages plus the pedal mechanism (to see whether the pedal pushes master pump sufficiently) and the rod between the slave and the clutch fork (to see whether the rod pushes the clutch fork enough to disengage the clutch)

if all of above are ok, then there are other possibilities such as

1. issue with the clutch fork and release bearing so that it doesn't push the pressure plate enough

2. aged pressure plate

3. hubs and synchronisers are troublesome.

[wolseley]

Had similar problem once. It was due to the tightness of pivot on the outer linkage fixed to the gearbox. After cleaning and applying little grease it was over.

[hiru555]

Hi. I too have a starlet and recently faced a similar situation. Hope you have repaired it by now. The problem was in the clutch pump.

we replaced the washers but the cylinder is too warn out. so replaced the entire pump with a Japanese model.

If you wan't more details and places please PM me.

[Elrond]

Hi All,

2 days ago I faced a shifting issue in my Lancer CS3 (132000km) after driving about 120km. 

While driving it became very hard to shift gears, and sometimes there was a grinding noise when shifting. When the engine was not running, it was not possible to change the gears at all. I checked the gear oil levels - no problem there (last oil change was done by the Agent). But the next day it was working without any problem.

I'm suspecting a clutch plate issue. Any other suggestions? I'm anyway gonna take her to a mechanic soon.

Thanks in advance!

Edited July 13, 2020 by Elrond

[vag2]

Clutch could be a reason as you said. Maybe the oil has lost viscosity. is it difficult with a particular gear? then the synchro wheel of that gear  in Gearbox is worn out (unlikely with this mileage, but depends on previous oil change history)

Edited July 13, 2020 by vag2

[Elrond]

20 hours ago, vag2 said:

Clutch could be a reason as you said. Maybe the oil has lost viscosity. is it difficult with a particular gear? then the synchro wheel of that gear  in Gearbox is worn out (unlikely with this mileage, but depends on previous oil change history)

Thanks for the response, @vag2

No, it was difficult with all the gears. The last gear oil change was done 3 years ago when the mileage was 102000. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Elrond

[Ravi Rodrigo]

My car Nissan FB 14 rattles sideways  when entering gears & raising.rattles only short time& with speed goes off.Common with low gears. all engine mounts replaced.

[Elrond]

 

On 7/13/2020 at 10:07 AM, Elrond said:

Hi All,

2 days ago I faced a shifting issue in my Lancer CS3 (132000km) after driving about 120km. 

While driving it became very hard to shift gears, and sometimes there was a grinding noise when shifting. When the engine was not running, it was not possible to change the gears at all. I checked the gear oil levels - no problem there (last oil change was done by the Agent). But the next day it was working without any problem.

I'm suspecting a clutch plate issue. Any other suggestions? I'm anyway gonna take her to a mechanic soon.

Thanks in advance!

 

17 hours ago, Elrond said:

Thanks for the response, @vag2

No, it was difficult with all the gears. The last gear oil change was done 3 years ago when the mileage was 102000. 

@Davy, @trinity, @Hyaenidae have you guys come across this problem with your Lancers? 

[Davy]

35 minutes ago, Elrond said:

 

 

@Davy, @trinity, @Hyaenidae have you guys come across this problem with your Lancers? 

I haven't come across the same problem, but it sounds like an  issue with the clutch cylinders (most probably the slave/release cylinder inside the transmission). Did you feel a difference in the pedal travel or firmness when this happened?  Also, do you know how many kilometers the current clutch has done?

If this happens again, try pumping the clutch (depress fully and let go, repeat 3 times) before pressing the clutch and shifting gears. if you could shift normally when you do this, then it's definitely a faulty cylinder - again, most probably the release cylinder.

[Elrond]

40 minutes ago, Davy said:

I haven't come across the same problem, but it sounds like an  issue with the clutch cylinders (most probably the slave/release cylinder inside the transmission). Did you feel a difference in the pedal travel or firmness when this happened?  Also, do you know how many kilometers the current clutch has done?

If this happens again, try pumping the clutch (depress fully and let go, repeat 3 times) before pressing the clutch and shifting gears. if you could shift normally when you do this, then it's definitely a faulty cylinder - again, most probably the release cylinder.

Thanks for the quick help Davy.

No, I didn't feel any difference with the pedal. Regarding the clutch life, I haven't changed it since I bought the car; 53000km ago. Don't know whether it was replaced by the previous owners. 

If the issue is with a cylinder, can it be intermittent? I'm wondering how it was working without an issue the next day when I travelled back 150km. (but on the return trip I was very careful to shift slowly and without sudden overtaking.) 

[trinity]

1 hour ago, Elrond said:

 

 

@Davy, @trinity, @Hyaenidae have you guys come across this problem with your Lancers? 

I think what Davy mentioned below could be the culprit. Busted clutch release bearing could prevent you from changing gears. How does the clutch pedal feel? does it feels like its not attached to anything and moves even with a slightest touch? 

I've faced a situation where I could not change the gears and clutch pedal started to feel very loose. This happened during a drive to Nuwara Eliya. I suspected a busted clutch cylinder (release bearing) but found out that its due to loosen clutch pedal itself which was causing the issue.

If i'm correct there's a tightening nut at the base of the clutch pedal which helps to adjust the pedal. In my case, it has got loosen and everything worked fined after tightening it. 

48 minutes ago, Davy said:

I haven't come across the same problem, but it sounds like an  issue with the clutch cylinders (most probably the slave/release cylinder inside the transmission). Did you feel a difference in the pedal travel or firmness when this happened?  Also, do you know how many kilometers the current clutch has done?

If this happens again, try pumping the clutch (depress fully and let go, repeat 3 times) before pressing the clutch and shifting gears. if you could shift normally when you do this, then it's definitely a faulty cylinder - again, most probably the release cylinder.

 

[Elrond]

1 hour ago, trinity said:

I think what Davy mentioned below could be the culprit. Busted clutch release bearing could prevent you from changing gears. How does the clutch pedal feel? does it feels like its not attached to anything and moves even with a slightest touch? 

I've faced a situation where I could not change the gears and clutch pedal started to feel very loose. This happened during a drive to Nuwara Eliya. I suspected a busted clutch cylinder (release bearing) but found out that its due to loosen clutch pedal itself which was causing the issue.

If i'm correct there's a tightening nut at the base of the clutch pedal which helps to adjust the pedal. In my case, it has got loosen and everything worked fined after tightening it. 

 

Thanks Trinity. I remember reading about the loose clutch pedal of your Lancer in another thread when I was searching AL for this issue. In my case, I didn't feel any difference with the pedal. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Elrond

[Davy]

1 hour ago, Elrond said:

Thanks for the quick help Davy.

No, I didn't feel any difference with the pedal. Regarding the clutch life, I haven't changed it since I bought the car; 53000km ago. Don't know whether it was replaced by the previous owners. 

If the issue is with a cylinder, can it be intermittent? I'm wondering how it was working without an issue the next day when I travelled back 150km. (but on the return trip I was very careful to shift slowly and without sudden overtaking.) 

From my experience and from what I've observed with other owners, the slave cylinder on the CS Lancer usually lasts for around 60,000km before starting to give trouble. During my ownership, I've replaced the clutch plate once, but the slave cylinder twice. So it might be this. Note that the slave cylinder is sealed and integrated to the clutch fork which is also connected to the release bearing. The entire unit needs replacement, and cannot be serviced.

As for the issue being intermittent, yes it's quite possible to to either of the cylinders failing. As the engine and transmission warm up, the bore of the cylinder expands, and if the hydraulic oil seals inside are old and brittle, it can cause fluid to leak within the unit causing the pedal to not engage/disengage the clutch properly.

As first point of the diagnosis, take out the transmission oil filler bolt and check if the oil level is low. The oil level should be just below the filler bolt and a little bit of oil coming out when the bolt is taken out means the oil level is spot on. If the oil level is low, this would explain difficulty in shifting (especially when warm). Next, drain the oil observe the colour and if the oil has any metal shavings. The colour should be a nice and golden with a hint of green/grey. Top up with new oil and take the car for a good drive. This will be a good point to start before taking apart the transmission. 

I had trouble downshifting to second gear after I bought my car and I did a transmission oil change which sorted it out. People rarely think about manual transmission oil changes, but it does matter although oil changes are not needed as frequently as with automatic transmissions. 

[Elrond]

3 hours ago, Davy said:

From my experience and from what I've observed with other owners, the slave cylinder on the CS Lancer usually lasts for around 60,000km before starting to give trouble. During my ownership, I've replaced the clutch plate once, but the slave cylinder twice. So it might be this. Note that the slave cylinder is sealed and integrated to the clutch fork which is also connected to the release bearing. The entire unit needs replacement, and cannot be serviced.

As for the issue being intermittent, yes it's quite possible to to either of the cylinders failing. As the engine and transmission warm up, the bore of the cylinder expands, and if the hydraulic oil seals inside are old and brittle, it can cause fluid to leak within the unit causing the pedal to not engage/disengage the clutch properly.

As first point of the diagnosis, take out the transmission oil filler bolt and check if the oil level is low. The oil level should be just below the filler bolt and a little bit of oil coming out when the bolt is taken out means the oil level is spot on. If the oil level is low, this would explain difficulty in shifting (especially when warm). Next, drain the oil observe the colour and if the oil has any metal shavings. The colour should be a nice and golden with a hint of green/grey. Top up with new oil and take the car for a good drive. This will be a good point to start before taking apart the transmission. 

I had trouble downshifting to second gear after I bought my car and I did a transmission oil change which sorted it out. People rarely think about manual transmission oil changes, but it does matter although oil changes are not needed as frequently as with automatic transmissions. 

Thanks Davy for the detailed info and your time. It is very helpful.

I don't think I will be able to do the oil change by myself. Haven't done that before, and not much time these days to learn and do it. Will get that checked from a mechanic.

I'm going to the Agent this week for the timing belt change. I can ask from them what they suspect. It is a good thing to know these before talking with them and other mechanics.

[Elrond]

Hi All,

This week only I could get this problem inspected. Agent did a test drive and said the Clutch is bit hard, and the gear shifting is not that smooth. But, since a clutch system repair would cost around 70K, they recommended to do a gear oil change first and see whether the issue would occur again when going long distance. (Previous oil change was done 30000km and 3 years ago). Gear oil change cost me 6163.85/= for the oil and 1380/= for labour. Now have to drive long distance and see.

Cheers!