Acceleration - Lancer C12

Iced-T · June 16, 2016

Something funny going on with my old lancer.

on a cold start in the mornings... the car is able to accelerate smoothly from stand still but as the journey progresses and maybe about half an hour into the drive the car slowly starts to struggle and vibrates heavily while taking off from zero on first gear.

I replaced the distributor cap and rotor but I still have this acceleration issue.

When I start the car the next day the same thing repeats... any idea whats causing this?

Dushyantha · June 16, 2016

Did you check the coil pack ?

Iced-T · June 16, 2016

On 6/16/2016 at 2:25 PM, Dushyantha said:
Did you check the coil pack ?

how do i check the coil pack? what are the steps?

PerfMad · June 16, 2016

yes check the coil pack.. that could be the culprit

Twin Turbo · June 16, 2016

This car has only one coil.

I'm suspecting this prob is either fuel or heat related.

on the subject of hiccups, You might want to check the c.b points if you have em.+

Edited June 17, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Davy · June 17, 2016

On 6/16/2016 at 2:29 PM, Iced-T said:
how do i check the coil pack? what are the steps?

Your car doesn't have coil packs, it has only one coil and from memory, it's an electronic one. Nevertheless, a weak ignition system can show problems like this when the engine heats up. First of all, ensure that the following components are okay:

- Spark plugs - Clean and in working order. Adjust clearances.

- High tension leads (plug wires) - No cracks, not brittle and well insulated. Clean each wire on the outside with a dry cloth.

- Distributor - Assuming the cap and rotor are okay since they are new. Inspect the contact point set. If there is a capacitor attached to it, replace it - they're very cheap.

- Ignition coil - In working order. There should be a ballast resister attached to the coil. When this fails, ignition problems start to show. especially when the engine is warm. The ignition coil on the C12 is attached to the firewall as I remember, it's basically at the other end of the high tension lead that connects to the middle terminal of the distributor cap.

Apart from this, it could also be due to a lean fuel mixture caused by a vacuum leak or a faulty PCV system that gets worse as the engine builds up heat. But since you say that the car vibrates heavily, I assume the problem is with the ignition system. Anyway, check the above and keep us posted.

Twin Turbo · June 17, 2016

And don't tell us the plug wires are old as the hills Replace them!

Edited June 17, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Iced-T · June 17, 2016

On 6/17/2016 at 1:43 AM, Davy said:
Your car doesn't have coil packs, it has only one coil and from memory, it's an electronic one. Nevertheless, a weak ignition system can show problems like this when the engine heats up. First of all, ensure that the following components are okay:
- Spark plugs - Clean and in working order. Adjust clearances.

- High tension leads (plug wires) - No cracks, not brittle and well insulated. Clean each wire on the outside with a dry cloth.

- Distributor - Assuming the cap and rotor are okay since they are new. Inspect the contact point set. If there is a capacitor attached to it, replace it - they're very cheap.

- Ignition coil - In working order. There should be a ballast resister attached to the coil. When this fails, ignition problems start to show. especially when the engine is warm. The ignition coil on the C12 is attached to the firewall as I remember, it's basically at the other end of the high tension lead that connects to the middle terminal of the distributor cap.

Apart from this, it could also be due to a lean fuel mixture caused by a vacuum leak or a faulty PCV system that gets worse as the engine builds up heat. But since you say that the car vibrates heavily, I assume the problem is with the ignition system. Anyway, check the above and keep us posted.

Thank you for your comment.

I cleaned all the contact points involved in the ignition system except for the spark plugs and I felt a major improvement.. especially in the responsiveness of the car. After the engine warmed up I did get the shakes during take off but its very mild. So cleaning the contacts somewhat worked and the car is drive able.

As you suggested it may be the ballast resister... but I dont know how to check if this works properly...

I wasnt able to find the capacitor inside the contact points in the distributor.

I have inserted the URLs below of the engine bay and components.. please tell me u can spot anything.

https://postimg.org/image/gawsnq6af/

https://postimg.org/image/do34tbo5d/

https://postimg.org/image/vsuwt1vu9/

Edited June 17, 2016 by Iced-T

Davy · June 17, 2016

The capacitor is not inside the distributor, but attached to the metal housing of the distributor. It should be attached using one nut, and a single wire comes out of it and connects to the contact point set.

Also, it looks like I was wrong about your coil being electronic. That's a regular oil filled coil. The ballast resistor is the white ceramic like part attached to it. These types of coils sometimes heat up and could very well be the reason of your issue. When the issue happens, open the hood and check if the coil is really hot to a point where you can't touch it.

Also, since your coil is in an upright position, moisture tends to build up under the output terminal even do to the slightest hairline crack in the red boot of that high tension lead. This is due to internal arching.

So check the high tension lead of the coil thoroughly. Some cracks might not be visible to the naked eye. An electrician should be able to tell if the ballast resistor is good. If you have a multimeter, you can check it yourself.

Twin Turbo · June 18, 2016

Nice pics , Thanks.

You have a conventional coil with B resister ( it's there to aid starting)

You have an aged after-market wire set - Replace

Need to know what the clearance of the points are when it's off ( or you risk over heating the coil) The location of the dissy will make it difficult. so use a mirror

get a new air filter

You're about to do your first tune up! Good luck,...

TT

Edited June 18, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Rumesh88 · June 18, 2016

Just to add a line to what Davy has already explained, overheating of the ignition coil could be due to bypassing of the ballast resistor. Just remove the connection coming to the bottom terminal of the ballast resistor, turn ignition on and check if you get battery voltage on the wire. If you get battery voltage the the connection is OK. Instead if you are getting battery voltage to the ignition coil on the top terminal of the ballast resistor that means the wire from ignition and the one from stater relay are swapped. They should be connected in such a way to bypass the resistor only when the stater relay is energized.

Iced-T · June 28, 2016

Hi, here is an update. I checked the entire ignition system and there was nothing wrong with it. I went to 2 trusted electrical guys and they both said that it was fine.

They advised me to go to my garage and check if the clutch pressure plate was alright. We checked the pressure plate and there was nothing wrong with it. The clutch was adjusted a little bit.. but still the problem persists.

Now I have been advised to check (service) the carburetor... what do u guys think? This only happens when the engine is warmed up. help!

Twin Turbo · June 28, 2016

Unless you have a sticky auto choke, working backwards, it's unlikely your carb is giving a prob,..especially when it's hot

Although it would be good to do a clean up of it and replace air+
+ fuel filters

p.s. check if your fuel tank is vacuuming by driving till, it has it's hiccups and opening the fuel tank lid.

tell us what you see.

Iced-T · June 28, 2016

On 6/28/2016 at 6:23 AM, Twin Turbo said:
Unless you have a sticky auto choke, working backwards, it's unlikely your carb is giving a prob,..especially when it's hot
Although it would be good to do a clean up of it and replace air+

+ fuel filters

p.s. check if your fuel tank is vacuuming by driving till, it has it's hiccups and opening the fuel tank lid.

tell us what you see.

ok.. I might need to do that as I have to do the eco test again next month.

The garage guy did say it might be the choke. Without removing the carburetor is it possible to see the condition of the choke?

Rumesh88 · June 28, 2016

On 6/28/2016 at 6:46 AM, Iced-T said:
ok.. I might need to do that as I have to do the eco test again next month.
The garage guy did say it might be the choke. Without removing the carburetor is it possible to see the condition of the choke?

I don't think there is a issue with the choke mechanism but you can easily check it by removing the top cover of the air cleaner and starting the car when the engine is cold. While the engine is being warmed up keep an eye on the choke flap. It should slowly move from a fully (almost!) closed position to fully open as the engine reaches its working temperature.

Twin Turbo · June 29, 2016

I'm tempted to go back to my original comment,.. our friend needs a proper tune up.

not a DIY hack!

And running like this to the eco test is a bad idea

Edited June 29, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Iced-T · June 29, 2016

Thanks for the info.

I removed the air-filter and got to the carburetor. In my model there are 2 flaps deep inside. I noticed that as I press the throttle only one of the flaps open where as the other stays shut. I ran the car for a bit and still the second flap stayed closed.

The second flap should also open right?

Here is a link to the images of the carburetor.

https://postimg.org/gallery/gqtyo6d4/

Rumesh88 · June 29, 2016

On 6/29/2016 at 10:04 AM, Iced-T said:
Thanks for the info.
I removed the air-filter and got to the carburetor. In my model there are 2 flaps deep inside. I noticed that as I press the throttle only one of the flaps open where as the other stays shut. I ran the car for a bit and still the second flap stayed closed.

The second flap should also open right?

Here is a link to the images of the carburetor.

https://postimg.org/gallery/gqtyo6d4/

No, the second flap would not open unless the first flap (the one directly attached to the accelerator) opens more than 50% and the air flow through the carb exceed a predetermined level based on the engine load. You cannot normally emulate the necessary conditions on a stationary car. Your choke is manual and has nothing to do with the issue in hand.

BTW did you try what Twin Turbo suggested in post #13?

Iced-T · June 29, 2016

On 6/29/2016 at 10:47 AM, Rumesh88 said:
No, the second flap would not open unless the first flap (the one directly attached to the accelerator) opens more than 50% and the air flow through the carb exceed a predetermined level based on the engine load. You cannot normally emulate the necessary conditions on a stationary car. Your choke is manual and has nothing to do with the issue in hand.
BTW did you try what Twin Turbo suggested in post #13?

Oh right.. thanks..

I have not driven this car for this week yet. I will most probably take it for a drive tomorrow. I will check the fuel tank when it starts to give problems (Y)

Edited June 29, 2016 by Iced-T

Davy · June 29, 2016

Rumesh is right. Your car has a manual choke, so it wouldn't be trying to automatically operate like the IACV on modern cars do.

When you accelerate from a standstill on first gear, does the car still vibrate if you release the clutch slowly compared to normal?

Twin Turbo · June 29, 2016

.This hiccup may have nothing to do with the carb.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Twin Turbo · June 30, 2016

..

Iced-T · June 30, 2016

On 6/29/2016 at 10:59 PM, Davy said:
Rumesh is right. Your car has a manual choke, so it wouldn't be trying to automatically operate like the IACV on modern cars do.
When you accelerate from a standstill on first gear, does the car still vibrate if you release the clutch slowly compared to normal?

Hi Davy,

When I engage the clutch very slowly i can control it... but I need to put in a bit more engine power (this is how I am currently driving)... very slow pick up but at least less vibration.

If I engage the clutch normally the car shakes a lot.

When the car is cold I can drive it normally though.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Iced-T

Iced-T · June 30, 2016

On 6/29/2016 at 11:51 PM, Twin Turbo said:
.This hiccup may have nothing to do with the carb.

I drove the car about 50km today and at the end of the journey I opened up the fuel cap.. nothing happened everything seems normal, but I still had difficulty in taking off.

Twin Turbo · July 2, 2016

A+.

Now we can eliminate tank vacuuming. ...now for the ignition system

P.s. Are you sure that your brakes are not binding with extended driving?

Edited July 2, 2016 by Twin Turbo

Davy · July 3, 2016

On 6/30/2016 at 2:04 PM, Iced-T said:
Hi Davy,
When I engage the clutch very slowly i can control it... but I need to put in a bit more engine power (this is how I am currently driving)... very slow pick up but at least less vibration.

If I engage the clutch normally the car shakes a lot.

When the car is cold I can drive it normally though.

While paying close attention to the advice by others, I think you should get your clutch checked out as well. Although your car has a cable operated clutch, "hot spots" on the pressure plate and flywheel can cause clutch slippage when the engine and transmission is hot. I was once faced with a situation where a leaky crankshaft oil seal caused oil to come into contact with the clutch plate and cause slippage. What was done as part of the clutch inspection? Was your gearbox taken down to inspect the clutch?

You can do a simple check to determine if your clutch is actually slipping. When the issue pops up,

- Bring the car to a complete stop

- With the engine still running, press the clutch and shift into third gear

- Try to take off as you would do if the car was on first gear

If the car stalls, then your clutch is probably OK. If the RPM increases and the car starts to move, then you have a slipping clutch. I suggest this because you say that you have control of the vibration when you ease up on the clutch.