## Post Whoring - Part 3 ##

[Kavvz]

6 hours ago, iRage said:

As for better Nissan alternatives even from the current lineup..sorry...no...and that by itself is the issue. Don't you think they have lost their footing when you have to make a challenge to offer a better Nissan alternative to a Toyota in a forum full of car enthusiasts ?

But never mind..lets play :

Alright, As your answer is very detailed / informative I'll respect that, and provide responses (although I totally agree with you- Nissan HAS lost their footing and its tough offering up a better Nissan alternative to a Toyota in any category other that the Landcrusier...)

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Corolla/Mazda 3/Civic : Nissan has not had a worthy competitor for ages (the last good all rounder in the segment was the B13..and possibly the B15). The sylphy...the N16/G11 were decent but thirsty and too soft but still the Axela/Lancer/Civic were much better cars and the Toyota just simply offered better economy. Then there is the latest Syplhy...misaligned interior and exterior panels !!! If I am not mistaken the G11 had more rear leg room and head space than an Accor and Camry of the period

I would say as a plain-Jane commuter car (sorry Corolla fans it is, what it is) the Syplhy wins that one I think. The interior is a tad nicer and the exterior is a lot better. Value for moneywise as well, I think the Syplhy makes sense - Which is why I had one for a while. (Civic and Mazda3 are a lot closer matched and I think either choice is a better alternative, but as its a Toyota vs Nissan thing, I think Nissan wins that round? Fair? Nissan 1, Toyota 0.

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Mark X, Lexus IS, Crown:

Skyline/Fuga..nice engines...feels luxurious, really nice V6s...but then it just stops from there...does not offer the handling or the response as the other cars.  Also..the interior design just feels a bit too dated.

Agreed the Skyline (Infinity G35, G37) is a nice second option but at a the end of the day I think its all Toyota in this (sporty sedan / executive sedan) category the Mark X, Lexus IS, Crown and I add the Lexus GS, are all super nice vehicles. And no way Nissan can win against that crowd. Win for Toyota. Nissan 1, Toyota 1

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Camry/ES/Mazda 6/Accord: Teana...again...good v6 engine...and then it just ends there. The suspension is too pudgy and the transmission just made it whiny. Granted the first generation (J31 series) does feel more refined than the Camry of the period). but then the cars like the Camry and Accord and even the 6 offered a lot more tech innovation than the Teana.

(I'll leave aside the non-Toyota's as it makes it tougher when you throw the Mazda 6 and Accord in as the Teana can't compete...) This is a tough one. I've owned 3 generations of the Teana and as far as commuter cars go: I feel the suspension and interior of the Teana is better than the Camry. The new Camry has a great exterior and I haven't had the chance to check either that or the new Teana out in person yet, so if I leave both those out, and just go on the previous generations: I think the Teana wins with regards to ride comfort as well as interior layout and design. Exterior wise I prefer the Teana, but its debatable, lots of people hate how it looks so its tough to give it a win, but the old Camry's were so bland its inconclusive there too. The Camry wins on durability clearly (thanks to Nissan's crap transmission), but overall this one is a win in my opinion for the Teana. Maybe a tie if you want to be picky as, at the end of the day, durability is king. (A nice broken car is still a broken car...) But as Nissan is the underdog, and since I've some expertise in this category, lets say its a win for the Nissan... Then so far Nissan 2, Toyota 1

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RAV4/CRV/MX-5: X Trail was late to enter the market...was a worthy competitor to the RAV4 and CRV at its first entry....but then it got too bulky and then with the 3rd gen it just became unreliable as well. The only thing the X Trail did offer in terms of something new was a clean diesel in its class. After that...a dead line. 

So again its RAV4 vs X Trial. No debate there. The X Trail is a decent option but RAV4 wins. Nissan 2, Toyota 2

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Hiace/Alphard/Voxy/Noah/LiteAce/TownAce/Delica D5/ Honda StepWagon:

Vans were Nissan's bread and butter back in the day ! The Urvan and Caravan were much much more plusher and capable than the Hiace and Deliva of the period...when the whole passenger van segment took of Urvan/Caravan were much much more advanced..then they released the Elgrand which was in a league of its own. Even the Serena...yes Sri Lankans have issues with it..but it had much better offerings than the LiteAce/TownAce of the period. Now even Honda makes a better highway cruiser than Nissan. Granted they do have pretty good success with Serena.

I personally like the looks of the new Hiace, but as the new Caravan isn't half bad, and if you disregard my personal bias, based on your thoughts above: Win to Nissan? So Nissan 3, Toyota 2

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Vitz/Yaris/Aqua/Mazda 2/ Fit: The March is out dated and even when the current model came out there was nothing new. It was the same old as what everyone else was offering. I mean c'mon no one else though of putting a super charger and a turbo charger in a hatch but Nissan did back then. Granted the current March did have a few special variants thanks to Autech. The eNote is a success due to the ePower tech...Even the previous gen Vitz (the actual Vitz not the thel higana 1 L version they made for fleets) are pretty nippy and responsive compared to the March and very chuckable. Drivability wise the Fit and Mazda 2 have been much better for like ever and the march is last in line in sales (for good reason). Again..nothing new. A new model has been spotted being tested..so lets hope there is something worthwhile.

Agreed. No competition from Nissan there in that segment. Nissan vs Toyota the Vitz/Yaris/Aqua has it. Nissan 3, Toyota 3

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CHR/Vezel : Okay..this is one area Nissan struck gold with with the Juke and even the Qashwai by being the first in the category (more or less).  

Not a whole lot of personal experience in this segment, but your answer says Nissan, so: Nissan 4, Toyota 3

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Sports cars....well...Nissan was the only manufacturer in Japan brae enough to stick with it. The GTR had amazing tech back then and even now...however...again....aren't you tired of seeing the same old GTR with different lights and bumpers and engine being tuned up again and again and again ? Yes the Supra is a BMW..but it is a good BMW....The LFA was out of this world.

Sigh. I'd love to give this to the GTR, but I differed to your expertise above and I'm a fan of the new Supra as much as anyone else (although I'm not sure the new Supra is in the same league as the GTR performance wise)  so I guess Toyota on this one. Nissan 4, Toyota 4

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RC/LC : The fairlady is a sportier ride whilst the Lexus are a bit of a GT and a sportster....but then the Lexus do offer far more advanced tech and better refinement than the failady. The Skyline coupe...feels outdated and although the engine is nice..the rest is just a bit off. 

Yes absolutely. The Skyline coupe is almost plebeian compared to the offerings from Toyota. Nissan 4, Toyota 5

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86/BRZ : Well...Nissan really does not have anything in this category does it ? 

Well the Z? as in the 350Z, 370Z ? I unfortunately haven't had a lot of exposure to the GT86. The reviews on it say its excellent and exactly what a sports car should be. While my experience with the 350Z is also somewhat limited, other than on exterior looks I don't think it would win out against the GT86 (exterior-wise 370Z vs GT86 - I think the Nissan wins) so Toyota wins here too? Nissan 4, Toyota 6

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LandCruisers: Well the Patrol is nice..but then it just went wierd and we all crave for the old one from the 90s ! The pathfinder/Xterra...again nice vehicles but simply falls short.

Well even though I passed over the Nissan when shopping in this category; personally I still feel the Patrol is better than the Land Crusier due to the engine options and the front and rear suspension layout. ( for road use as well as soft off-road use.) For strictly road use the new Pathfinder is really nice and the interior is laid out really well *but it has a CVT so a let down there. I think if it had a better transmission it would give the Toyota Prado a good run for its money. However personal opinions aside if I were to look towards worldwide vehicle sales its clear the Toyota LC and the Prado have a solid win in this segment too. Nissan 4, Toyota 7

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Then there are the new Nissans....has potential but simply does not seem to make the traction they promised. Kicks over here for example..nice vehicle...but then that is it...its just nice...it was doing quite well until the Yaris Cross came along. The new Teana...no idea...but by all accounts it is better than the outgoing model..has a nice engine and transmission and suspension is a lot better..but something is missing compared to the Camry and Accord that have gotten a lot better.

So Nissan Kicks vs Yaris Cross...hmm not sure of the Nissan Kicks. It does look really decent and it is priced really well, so a strong contender. But exterior and interior-wise I think the Yaris Cross has the slight edge, so Nissan 4, Toyota 7

New Teana vs New Camry- The older ones were roped into the upscale commuter category above and Nissan won it. But strictly looking at the new models I think the new Camry looks really exciting and since even I didn't consider the new Teana and crossed over to the opposition (reliability is king) : Toyota wins this one. Nissan 4, Toyota 8

Final count: Nissan 4, Toyota 8...So the winner-Well, why of course the NISSAN PATROL !  

Edited October 1, 2020 by Kavvz

[Kavvz]

57 minutes ago, kmeeg said:

Machan,

LC70 sold till date has front+ rear solid axles.

As has as I know all other Toyota SUVs sold today solid rear axle ne? LC200, LC Prado, Lexus GX, Lexus LX,.. I think they all come from Toyota plant in Tahara, Aichi, Japan. I searched a little bit more on that factory and I saw that every 1/5 Toyota vehicle is road testes and every single Lexus vehicle is road tested from that factory. No wonder they have such a high quality. I hope mine was 1/5 that was road tested too.. LoL..

Oh sorry I totally forgot the LC70! 

And sorry, I forgot we were considering rear suspension as well. My bad. I just considered IFS when replying- which is weird as its one of the reasons I think the Nissan Patrol is better than the LC200 for road / soft off-road use! (The Patrol has IFS & IRS)

I stand corrected! Thanks @kmeeg

Edited October 1, 2020 by Kavvz

[kmeeg]

49 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

one of the reasons I think the Nissan Patrol is better than the LC200 for road

That is true. I too like the feel of independent suspension Pajero & Infinity QX80 on road.

[iRage]

1 hour ago, Kavvz said:

so this one is a win in my opinion for the Teana. Maybe a tie if you want to be picky as,

Okay I will say this is fine and give in to your personal bias  But at the end of the day....the reason why the Camry out sold everything else is because it is a better all rounder....

1 hour ago, Kavvz said:

would say as a plain-Jane commuter car (sorry Corolla fans it is, what it is) the Syplhy wins that one I think. The interior is a tad nicer and the exterior is a lot better.

Yes the Corollas have been plain Jane commuter cars since the E121 (which is when the FB15 was there) and models before that they were trying to catch up to the likes of the Sunny and Civic and Lancer.; however, sorry no...the Sylphy does not still win it. The only thing it has is that it had comfy seats and a comfy ride. The engine was nothing to write home about..it did not have the performance (the engine was too sluggish for that turtle body) and at the end of the day nor did it have the durability nor the fuel efficiency that the segment desires. The Civic and Axela were better cars and Corolla did a lot better because of durability and cheap to run factor. The Sylphy did not look cool...and like I said...the new one's finish is a lot worst than the old one. So I would say this could have been a draw (assuming that the market numbers have no effect on it).

 

1 hour ago, Kavvz said:

Well the Z? as in the 350Z, 370Z ?

Nope...the Z is a segment above it..the engines are larger and the price tag is higher.

 

1 hour ago, Kavvz said:

personally like the looks of the new Hiace, but as the new Caravan isn't half bad, and if you disregard my personal bias, based on your thoughts above: Win to Nissan? So Nissan 3, Toyota 2

No...yu misunderstood what I said and I was a bit drowsy when typing this..the Nissan loses this round....I said it was their bread and butter BACK in the day. They had success in the past..but now they have lost the segment except for the Serena. Even then it is not doing that well as the Toyota/Honda offerings. So Toyota wins this one.

So the final tally becomes Nissan 3: Toyota 9 (adjusting only the point you assigned for the vans).

The thing is this is really saddening for the Japanese manufacturer which everyone else was simply playing catch up to. The new range seems to have a lot of promise (especially with the Z and the new XTrail; but no one has actually used or driven them). So far with the new cars they have seemed to under delivered again. So fingers crossed.

 

 

[iRage]

59 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

And sorry, I forgot we were considering rear suspension as well. My bad. I just considered IFS when replying- which is weird as its one of the reasons I think the Nissan Patrol is better than the LC200 for road / soft off-road use! (The Patrol has IFS & IRS)

Well..again this is one of those things that can go either way....old school ofroaders want nothing but solids in the back and rear..but what I don't get about the Patrol is why it has gotten so huge. The thing feels huge. I feel they just turned it in to a sand barge for the middle east.

[Kavvz]

Just now, iRage said:

Well..again this is one of those things that can go either way....old school ofroaders want nothing but solids in the back and rear..but what I don't get about the Patrol is why it has gotten so huge. The thing feels huge. I feel they just turned it in to a sand barge for the middle east.

Yeap. You hit the nail on the head- Apparently that's exactly who they designed it for and apparently that's where 80-90% of all Patrols sold worldwide end up. (Also explains why the interior has gotten so fancy and upscale making it very pricey when everything is tallied up).

[Kavvz]

34 minutes ago, iRage said:

Okay I will say this is fine and give in to your personal bias  But at the end of the day....the reason why the Camry out sold everything else is because it is a better all rounder....

Oh the Camry is #1 in that segment is it? Wow. I for some reason thought the Nissan Teana outsold the Camry in that segment based on something I read somewhere, but I can't be certain- but thank you for the soft toss to Nissan on that one...  

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Yes the Corollas have been plain Jane commuter cars since the E121 (which is when the FB15 was there) and models before that they were trying to catch up to the likes of the Sunny and Civic and Lancer.; however, sorry no...the Sylphy does not still win it. The only thing it has is that it had comfy seats and a comfy ride. The engine was nothing to write home about..it did not have the performance (the engine was too sluggish for that turtle body) and at the end of the day nor did it have the durability nor the fuel efficiency that the segment desires. The Civic and Axela were better cars and Corolla did a lot better because of durability and cheap to run factor. The Sylphy did not look cool...and like I said...the new one's finish is a lot worst than the old one. So I would say this could have been a draw (assuming that the market numbers have no effect on it).

Fair enough. 

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Nope...the Z is a segment above it..the engines are larger and the price tag is higher.

Oh is it? I always considered the Nissan 307Z, GT86/BRZ and the Mazda Miata/ MX-5 were all the 'affordable' sports car category...

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No...yu misunderstood what I said and I was a bit drowsy when typing this..the Nissan loses this round....I said it was their bread and butter BACK in the day. They had success in the past..but now they have lost the segment except for the Serena. Even then it is not doing that well as the Toyota/Honda offerings. So Toyota wins this one.

So the final tally becomes Nissan 3: Toyota 9 (adjusting only the point you assigned for the vans).

Might be less for Nissan as I gave it a win for the small commuter car (Corolla segment) so if its a draw there, we should take that point away from Nissan or give Toyota one point for that too...?  So either Nissan 2, Toyota 9 or Nissan 3, Toyota 10..But yeah no disagreement about the overall results: Toyota pretty much slam-dunked it. 

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The thing is this is really saddening for the Japanese manufacturer which everyone else was simply playing catch up to. The new range seems to have a lot of promise (especially with the Z and the new XTrail; but no one has actually used or driven them). So far with the new cars they have seemed to under delivered again. So fingers crossed.

Well I don't know, I mean fingers crossed and all as a fan of the brand and an overall Jap car person, but Nissan will have to be extremely strategic if they are to be competitive again.

This is probably not going to make me popular: But I think the current Z was a waste. Not because I am personally not that impressed by it, but because despite catering to enthusiasts that segment doesn't make a lot of money. Even if they came out with something absolutely stunning, they wouldn't really make that much money off it will they? They should have just face-lifted it (maybe also changed the monochromatic dials out) and focused those resources on a more important revenue generating segment.

I'm not sure whether they should focus on the entry-level electric car market (that seems to be the future) or whether they should go all out for the small SUV / CUV segment (the current hot segment) but I do know that they need to make some decent sales to stay viable...

Edited October 1, 2020 by Kavvz

[kmeeg]

[iRage]

5 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Oh the Camry is #1 in that segment is it? Wow. I for some reason thought the Nissan Teana outsold the Camry in that segment based on something I read somewhere, but I can't be certain- but thank you for the soft toss to Nissan on that one...  

Nope....Camry and Accord have been competing for #1 and 2 spots in the segment. The Camry is quite popular in South East Asia and Australasian regions. America has always been a close call between the Accord and the Camry (always swapping places). Having said that....the Teana had numbers pile up because the Koreans and the Chinese produced their own versions of it in their home countries (mostly for fleet vehicle purposes).

5 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Oh is it? I always considered the Nissan 307Z, GT86/BRZ and the Mazda Miata/ MX-5 were all the 'affordable' sports car category...

Well...the 370Z has a 3.7L engine and starts at nearly 3.7mil yen base price for the base grade and running up to nearly 7 mil yen. The BRZ/86 has a 2L engine and starts from like 2.4mil yen and if I am not mistakn the limited edition fully tuned engine powered GRMN 86 (which had the same power out put as the 370Z) was only about 5mil yen. So the Z is larger in engine capacity and is far more than just cheap.

 

5 hours ago, Kavvz said:

This is probably not going to make me popular: But I think the current Z was a waste.

Well...whether it is a waste or not depends on what Nissan follows everything up with. Nissan desperately needs a halo and flagship car. The GTR has outlived its life span. So the new Z can drum up some excitement about the brand. However, all that will be a waste if Nissan does not follow up with some decent normal cars. At the end of the day...there are only so many Fairladies they can sell and that ain't enough to keep he company going. All this time they used Renaults to keep them afloat...and now they have moved on to rebadging Mitsubishis or using Mitsubishi platforms...smart to get some quick products out...but then...they have lost the Nissanism as well. So would be interesting to see what happens.

As for Toyota slam dunking it...yes they have slam dunked quite a lot of segments...I mean why the hell would anyone need so many bloody crossovers n their line up ? and actually sell them by truck loads ? Toyota has been pretty good at reading the mass market and responding to it. However, that too has come at a cost of completely cutting out the enthusiast crowd and the actual brand believers.  

[kmeeg]

9 hours ago, iRage said:

Nope....Camry and Accord have been competing for #1 and 2 spots in the segment. The Camry is quite popular in South East Asia and Australasian regions. America has always been a close call between the Accord and the Camry (always swapping places).

 

Now since Accord taken CVT route and some models having 1.5T engine famous for oil dilution problem I bet Camry will win for some time.

I like Toyota offering Camry with AWD option but sadly AWD option seem only available with 4cyl engine, V6 only got FWD option. Even though they are more family friendly car not a sport sedan the quad exhaust look sexy (compared to previous generation).

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by kmeeg

[sathyajithj99]

[fiat fan]

This guy was convinced that he had more taste than the guys at AR.

[kmeeg]

@fiat fan why do I see all these tempting Jeep videos..

In addition to all the goodies on Rubicon solid axles + twin lockers + sway bar disconnect a 6.4-liter 392 engine with 2in lift and 37in tires + winch...?

Don't really care about seats and door mods.

(May its best just watch and not buy, else my wife kill me for changing vehicles)

 

 

 

[iRage]

@kmeeg you really should change your handle to SolidAxel

[Kavvz]

5 hours ago, iRage said:

@kmeeg you really should change your handle to SolidAxel

lol! Our friend @kmeeg wants to make sure he keeps the flag flying in any wind conditions imaginable! Be prepared and ready for anything and all...What a boy scout!  *insert your favorite stiffy in a jiffy joke here* 

Although interestingly I see an increasing number of Wranglers being purchased in SL too these days...Do they not test drive them first ? ?

*My apologies in advance to @kmeeg ! I'm just joking buddy...Wranglers are nice. I like how they are totally committed to off-roading. Nice to see in today's marketplace where everything seems to be getting diluted down towards the median soccer mom style CUV soft roader.

[Kavvz]

12 minutes ago, MaleCortana said:

I know the answer is already given above, but I have to do it for the meme.

 

IS THAT A *WIPES GLASSES* A..... SUUUPPPRRAAAAAA?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!!

She's just doing it for the tui-tuti- tuiti-tuitioooooooon fee!

Edited October 6, 2020 by Kavvz

[Hyaenidae]

8 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

 

 

 

2 hours ago, matroska said:

ok then let's try something different (need to ID the car...the redhead is not mandatory) 

 

15 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

She's waiting for the engine to cool down

"Post Nut Clarity"

Edited October 6, 2020 by Hyaenidae

[kmeeg]

25 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

*My apologies in advance to @kmeeg ! I'm just joking buddy...Wranglers are nice. I like how they are totally committed to off-roading. Nice to see in today's marketplace where everything seems to be getting diluted down towards the median soccer mom style CUV soft roader.

Haa haa.. No worries machan.. I myself joke about my vehicle about its down sides. LoL. So no worries at all.

Wranglers are nice with few things I don't like. I've test driven the JL 4 door Rubicon and at highway speeds the steering wasn't good as a IFS, Roof insulation is a concerned too, second row space also small for my kid with a child seat.

Since I've personally experienced how poor IFS are vs my buddy's Wrangler I wish I have all solid axes. I was like on a see-saw with poor wheel articulation with IFS vs Wrangler had all its wheels on the ground thanks to solid axles and sway bar disconnect. My buddy also got a lift kit called "RockCrwler" I think it had fox shocks / falken shocks and the ride was much improved. Steering wasn't that good though. But I bet its doable to get it improved.

If Wrangler was reliable as Toyota I would have jumped on it rightaway. If not I would have to pray that LC70 Wagon or Doublecab would be available to buy and start my mods there. Shocks + Tires and seats would be the first. List will go on an on. Will be same story as my current..?

[Kavvz]

Just now, Hyaenidae said:

 

 

 

"Post Nut Clarity"

 

lol !! 

[matroska]

[Kavvz]

Saw this and thought....Well I get the jist of this meme; but it certainly wasn't made by a car guy, as clearly one group is driving what is (arguably) the most indestructible / reliable vehicle in the world and the other well...You'd be lucky if that darn Ford starts again! 

 

[iRage]

2 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Saw this and thought....Well I get the jist of this meme; but it certainly wasn't made by a car guy, as clearly one group is driving what is (arguably) the most indestructible / reliable vehicle in the world and the other well...You'd be lucky if that darn Ford starts again! 

 

 

relative to many other American vehicles those things are surprisingly well built. In fact....trucks are one thing the Americans did get right....a lot of he know how for the Tundra/Tacoma actually came from American trucks...there was a car and driver article a long time ago where it talked about how Toyota engineers had studied Ford and Dodge trucks. This was around the time Toyota moved away from the Toyota Pickup (the Hilux for us) and moved on to the Tacoma and then Tundra.

[matroska]

7 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Saw this and thought....Well I get the jist of this meme; but it certainly wasn't made by a car guy, as clearly one group is driving what is (arguably) the most indestructible / reliable vehicle in the world and the other well...You'd be lucky if that darn Ford starts again! 

 

The Truck at the bottom will outlive the dudes in the back .The truck at the top may or may not outlive the dudes travelling in it - depends on the level of burger-induced diabeetus they have. 

4 hours ago, iRage said:

relative to many other American vehicles those things are surprisingly well built. In fact....trucks are one thing the Americans did get right....a lot of he know how for the Tundra/Tacoma actually came from American trucks...there was a car and driver article a long time ago where it talked about how Toyota engineers had studied Ford and Dodge trucks. This was around the time Toyota moved away from the Toyota Pickup (the Hilux for us) and moved on to the Tacoma and then Tundra.

Guess the truck is a very American thing  i mean look at these for instance - all they need is a big hat and a pair of horns ... 

I can almost hear the trucks speaking in a southern twang. 

[iRage]

2 hours ago, matroska said:

The Truck at the bottom will outlive the dudes in the back .The truck at the top may or may not outlive the dudes travelling in it - depends on the level of burger-induced diabeetus they have. 

Guess the truck is a very American thing  i mean look at these for instance - all they need is a big hat and a pair of horns ... 

I can almost hear the trucks speaking in a southern twang. 

Oh yeah....lived in Utah and worked in Idaho and Wyoming....trucks are the thing...babe magnets to wealth splash. 

[Kavvz]

7 hours ago, iRage said:

relative to many other American vehicles those things are surprisingly well built.

Doesn't mean the trucks are good, just means everything else is crappier!!! ?

( I kid. I'm sure the F150 is decent. It is the #1 selling vehicle in the US after all...But I'd buy a Hilux or or LC100 over a F150 any day! )