Mecedez Benz E220

[PerfMad]

Hi Geeks,

I'm planning on purchasing a W124 E220 Merc (300-) plate one and interested in knowing the below details;
1) Heard there are Indian made ones as well. What are the differences between german made and indian made?
2) What would be the fuel consumption be like?
3) Any specific issues with regards to Indian version?
4) Were there any Japan versions as well? Checked one car and the book said its Japan (car had leather seats too)
5) Any specifics i should look for before purchasing ?
6) How about E200 petrol version? what would be the answers for this variant for above questions?

Thanks in advance ! 

Edited November 15, 2018 by PerfMad
Added model which lead to confusion

[Sadik]

21 hours ago, PerfMad said:

Hi Geeks,

I'm planning on purchasing a E220 Merc (300-) plate one and interested in knowing the below details;
1) Heard there are Indian made ones as well. What are the differences between german made and indian made?
2) What would be the fuel consumption be like?
3) Any specific issues with regards to Indian version?
4) Were there any Japan versions as well? Checked one car and the book said its Japan (car had leather seats too)
5) Any specifics i should look for before purchasing ?
6) How about E200 petrol version? what would be the answers for this variant for above questions?

Thanks in advance ! 

I think for clarity you should first specify the model no : WXXX which would make the job of the experts easier rather than a plate reference. I think you might be referring to W210

There are some specific issues to this model on rusting and then on the injector mechanism for diesels (Lucas). AFAIK this model was not assembled in Japan. What you saw might be car imported from Japan as a used. 

But i guess this model is not from the era where Mercs were very much bullet proof , as against current models. So, expect issues

There are many Merc experts in this forum who should be able to help you. 

[TheFlyingFox]

20 minutes ago, Sadik said:

I think for clarity you should first specify the model no : WXXX which would make the job of the experts easier rather than a plate reference. I think you might be referring to W210

There are some specific issues to this model on rusting and then on the injector mechanism for diesels (Lucas). AFAIK this model was not assembled in Japan. What you saw might be car imported from Japan as a used. 

But i guess this model is not from the era where Mercs were very much bullet proof , as against current models. So, expect issues

There are many Merc experts in this forum who should be able to help you. 

I think what is is referring is to a w124. The ones with Lucas parts were assembled in India. 

[PerfMad]

57 minutes ago, Sadik said:

I think for clarity you should first specify the model no : WXXX which would make the job of the experts easier rather than a plate reference. I think you might be referring to W210

There are some specific issues to this model on rusting and then on the injector mechanism for diesels (Lucas). AFAIK this model was not assembled in Japan. What you saw might be car imported from Japan as a used. 

But i guess this model is not from the era where Mercs were very much bullet proof , as against current models. So, expect issues

There are many Merc experts in this forum who should be able to help you. 

Hi @Sadik sorry for the confusion. I altered the topic. its a w124 to be specific. Car is brought down as brand new as per the user and he said book says Japan. I'm concerned about this because i have no information about these coming from Japan (as brand new). I could be wrong. But i've seen same model petrol EFI came from India. One owner(out of the cars i checked) claimed its assembled from India not made in india

[PerfMad]

38 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

I think what is is referring is to a w124. The ones with Lucas parts were assembled in India. 

Yes. its W124. What's with these LUCAS parts thing? i'm not familiar with this year petrol version much and still a newbie to Mercs. Would love to expand my knowledge on these. So please share information as much as possible.

Note: currently in the processes of selling my daily, therefore i have plenty of time to take a wise decision with the help of you all

[TheFlyingFox]

1 hour ago, PerfMad said:

Yes. its W124. What's with these LUCAS parts thing? i'm not familiar with this year petrol version much and still a newbie to Mercs. Would love to expand my knowledge on these. So please share information as much as possible.

Note: currently in the processes of selling my daily, therefore i have plenty of time to take a wise decision with the help of you all

Less reliable than the cars which came with Bosch parts. Market value will also be less, someone who knows them will know. Sometimes  A good 124 will cost as much as a w203. Try to get a diesel, original or a proper convert. They will run like a good old Toyota. 

 

[PerfMad]

19 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Less reliable than the cars which came with Bosch parts. Market value will also be less, someone who knows them will know. Sometimes  A good 124 will cost as much as a w203. Try to get a diesel, original or a proper convert. They will run like a good old Toyota. 

 

Hmm.. the thing is i went to see couple of diesels non of them were in good shape. Only these 2 petrols were good. out of them one car is still in really good condition. All other diesels are way out of my budget  now i'm thinking whether to sell my daily (just only because i want to shift to a merc or stick to my daily as its still in better condition and is also newer than these old mercs). But i drove a manual E250 and i wanted to own one  

That's why i wanted to get in touch with all the required information before making the choice.

However, thanks for your input. Really appreciate it  

[Magnum]

My uncle had an E250 diesel, the power plant didnt have enough energy in it to move the weight of the car, it wasn't quick as an equivalent Japanese diesel from its period. It did have endless issues with electronics such as power shutters but the body of the car stayed solid through out the time he had it. There wasn't a single spot of rust on it. Also it was properly comfortable .

I'm not an expert on European cars, but if i'm not wrong, the W124 was put together better than the models which came after it because the W124 was designed and released to the market prior to Lexus coming in to the competition. The lack of Japanese competition allowed German manufacturers to not worry about competing based on the price, hence they were able to maintain the of build quality.

[PerfMad]

31 minutes ago, Magnum said:

My uncle had an E250 diesel, the power plant didnt have enough energy in it to move the weight of the car, it wasn't quick as an equivalent Japanese diesel from its period. It did have endless issues with electronics such as power shutters but the body of the car stayed solid through out the time he had it. There wasn't a single spot of rust on it. Also it was properly comfortable .

I'm not an expert on European cars, but if i'm not wrong, the W124 was put together better than the models which came after it because the W124 was designed and released to the market prior to Lexus coming in to the competition. The lack of Japanese competition allowed German manufacturers to not worry about competing based on the price, hence they were able to maintain the of build quality.

True that. Not sure about the issues though. my uncle had a E200 (32-XXXX) which had a 5 cylinder engine swapped and recently he sold it and bought another E250 both are having the same engine. However this one is smoother than the previous and doesn't hear much sound to inside either.. he is the one who changed my mind to buy a Benz  He said its a solid car and let's buy a good diesel  he doesnt like petrols though hehe

But gotta admit car is solid as rock and so comfy and awesome ride for cruising too

[ajm]

33 minutes ago, Magnum said:

The lack of Japanese competition allowed German manufacturers to not worry about competing based on the price, hence they were able to maintain the of build quality. 

Hmm I dont think there Lexus and Mercs have ever been competitors. Mercs had always a very loyal customer base, even in Japan. On the other hand, a big chunk of those who were buying Crowns and Mark-X s switched to Lexus. Its a dilemma for Toyota in JP market.

[TheFlyingFox]

3 hours ago, PerfMad said:

Hmm.. the thing is i went to see couple of diesels non of them were in good shape. Only these 2 petrols were good. out of them one car is still in really good condition. All other diesels are way out of my budget  now i'm thinking whether to sell my daily (just only because i want to shift to a merc or stick to my daily as its still in better condition and is also newer than these old mercs). But i drove a manual E250 and i wanted to own one  

That's why i wanted to get in touch with all the required information before making the choice.

However, thanks for your input. Really appreciate it  

It's like this what you have now, a Honda I believe and a W124 are totally two different machines. It will be a fact that you will have to spend more to keep the merc in good working order as they are now quite old. But the systems are quite simple. For example the door lock mechanism runs of vaccume lines instead of electronics. If rats don't bite the lines they last a lot more than any electronic mechanism. Parts(body and mechanical) are also available at the right places like Avinda. Due to the age most common will be a bush here and there once in ~4 months. Mechanical parts, one shock for example can be had for as low as 14k brand new (certainly not at the agents) . Every time you get up in the morning and put it on the road your going to feel special. Believe me I know cause I had a 190E.

 

Your Honda on the other hand can be worry free compared to the merc. It will be more exiting to drive opposed to a more relaxing drive. Obviously more modern creature Comforts. Other thing I can think of is that if your in a hurry to sell it for some emergency odds are that you WIl fulfill that emergency in a short time. It can be quite tricky with the merc. 

[PerfMad]

28 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

It's like this what you have now, a Honda I believe and a W124 are totally two different machines. It will be a fact that you will have to spend more to keep the merc in good working order as they are now quite old. But the systems are quite simple. For example the door lock mechanism runs of vaccume lines instead of electronics. If rats don't bite the lines they last a lot more than any electronic mechanism. Parts(body and mechanical) are also available at the right places like Avinda. Due to the age most common will be a bush here and there once in ~4 months. Mechanical parts, one shock for example can be had for as low as 14k brand new (certainly not at the agents) . Every time you get up in the morning and put it on the road your going to feel special. Believe me I know cause I had a 190E.

 

Your Honda on the other hand can be worry free compared to the merc. It will be more exiting to drive opposed to a more relaxing drive. Obviously more modern creature Comforts. Other thing I can think of is that if your in a hurry to sell it for some emergency odds are that you WIl fulfill that emergency in a short time. It can be quite tricky with the merc. 

True that.. Totally agree with you. I'm actually not in a hurry to sell this. I will only sell this if the buyer is willing to pay my price. I've done alot of maintenance before its due as i initially had plans on keeping this for 4-5 years. This mood swing happened recently after i drove this merc and started liking it too though its not that sporty of fun to drive as mine.

I guess i took a wise decision on taking you'll opinion before selling mine. 

Even one of my friend who owned a 2004 crv sold and bought a w210 and he claimed the parts are way cheaper than his honda  

[Magnum]

1 hour ago, ajm said:

Hmm I dont think there Lexus and Mercs have ever been competitors. Mercs had always a very loyal customer base, even in Japan. On the other hand, a big chunk of those who were buying Crowns and Mark-X s switched to Lexus. Its a dilemma for Toyota in JP market.

There's a loyal customer base for almost all popular, but that doesn't mean customers won't switch to other brands when there is a competing brand. Do some research on the effect of Lexus entering luxury car segment in the US market. 

[Magnum]

6 minutes ago, PerfMad said:

True that.. Totally agree with you. I'm actually not in a hurry to sell this. I will only sell this if the buyer is willing to pay my price. I've done alot of maintenance before its due as i initially had plans on keeping this for 4-5 years. This mood swing happened recently after i drove this merc and started liking it too though its not that sporty of fun to drive as mine.

I guess i took a wise decision on taking you'll opinion before selling mine. 

Even one of my friend who owned a 2004 crv sold and bought a w210 and he claimed the parts are way cheaper than his honda  

Whats the Honda you currently own? 90s Hondas had pretty good driving dynamics. The W124 wasnt a driving pleasure focused car, but it was designed more for a comfy ride and durability. 

[PerfMad]

1 minute ago, Magnum said:

Whats the Honda you currently own? 90s Hondas had pretty good driving dynamics. The W124 wasnt a driving pleasure focused car, but it was designed more for a comfy ride and durability. 

Mine is not that fast. however i own a Honda city 2001 vtec car mate   it provides decent amount of power like 115-130bhp i guess

[kmeeg]

5 hours ago, PerfMad said:

Mine is not that fast. however i own a Honda city 2001 vtec car mate   it provides decent amount of power like 115-130bhp i guess

When I search online it show 2001 Honda City with 1.5L engine produce 103hp when its new. I think one of the reason they are fun to drive is because they are light.

 

[PerfMad]

4 hours ago, kmeeg said:

When I search online it show 2001 Honda City with 1.5L engine produce 103hp when its new. I think one of the reason they are fun to drive is because they are light.

 

There were two variants. The one you referring could be for the non-vtec. I think vtec variant came with 115bhp (if im not mistaken).
And yes, true that its bit lighter and you get a decent pickup compared to vehicle which falls under same category i guess.  

[Twin Turbo]

For identification, kindly upload a pic of the  car,.. The W124 had a face lift in the 94' mdl year.And hope it's a manual,..as the teeny engine can't speed up the car even going down hill,..

Edited November 18, 2018 by Twin Turbo

[PerfMad]

On 11/18/2018 at 5:13 AM, Twin Turbo said:

For identification, kindly upload a pic of the  car,.. The W124 had a face lift in the 94' mdl year.And hope it's a manual,..as the teeny engine can't speed up the car even going down hill,..

[Twin Turbo]

It's a face lift mdl with clear side indicators,.. pitty , no alloys and let me guess, cloth interior.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Twin Turbo

[PerfMad]

I checked two petrol versions, and one of them had fabric interior and the other was having leather. Both were facelifts. 

Went to check one petrol E220 last weekend and that was in really bad condition from inside (lot of rust) and it had a carb engine.
Also checked a E300 diesel car, engine was smooth, but interior and body rust was there and paint job was not in good condition.

I'm really having a difficult time in finding a good car. So far only option is to opt to E220 which i had a look initially. However my uncle asked me to look for a diesel rather than going for a petrol since petrol will not do more than 7 in city. All the Diesel versions i checked are from 1985-1989 years, except the E300 which was 1992/3.

Assuming a 1996/7 E220 petrol (manual) car both interior and exterior in good condition, how much will it worth? 

[Twin Turbo]

Your uncle has given good advice,..

 

[PerfMad]

12 minutes ago, Twin Turbo said:

Your uncle has given good advice,..

 

True that. Will see i will hunt until end of December probably, by then if i don't find a good one, plan is to give up the idea (may be buy his E250, when he plans to sell it ) 

[iRage]

On 11/16/2018 at 12:38 AM, ajm said:

Hmm I dont think there Lexus and Mercs have ever been competitors. Mercs had always a very loyal customer base, even in Japan. On the other hand, a big chunk of those who were buying Crowns and Mark-X s switched to Lexus. Its a dilemma for Toyota in JP market.

Well...with Lexus coming in to the market the European luxo brands did get a wake up call...and there was a customer base that shifted; especially in the US market because the likes of the W124 did not have a good reputation in the US. The dilemma for Toyota in Japan is not people shifting to Lexus...it is the simple fact that people are not going for the usual lineup of vehicles (which is the problem for all manufacturers in Japan)

In Japan...well..Mercs, BMWs, etc...really did not have much game in the market until recently. At the time of Lexus' launch; most who went for Mercs and BMWs were Yakuza heads (management went for Crowns, etc...). Since they bought it purely for the status symbol they really didn't care what ever the heck Toyota/Lexus launched and offered.  Outside of that small market and the enthusiasts, etc....brands like Merc and BMW were not major players in the market until the yen got strong in the early 2010s. 

As for the shift from Toyota to Lexus in Japan, you really cant look at Japanese car buyers the same manner in which you would look at others. The switch is actually a switch of progression rather than switching brands based on quality/price/competition as you would do with Merc vs Lexus. Japanese still consider Lexus = Toyota because until recently they were all sold as Toyota. People who had Crowns and Mark Xs now shift to a car that is of a higher "level"...for example after Crown the next progression would be a Lexus GS..then a LS....or; if a Camry/Mark X owner wants to stay within a segment (for tax, organizational level, etc...reasons); but want more "prestigious" features he/she would go for the Lexus in the same segment (yes...in Japan a person would not buy a car that is flashier than his/her boss for daily/normal use). The issue is that the newer generations who would have progressed from a Mark X to a Crown those who were in Allions/Premios and were to progress on to Mark X/Camry are not there to progress anymore. The other reason for the shift was Toyota scrapped out the type of cars Japanese people were actually looking for but only offered by Lexus (e.g. Yes....they sold the CHR and Vezel in ship-loads at launch but there were people still looking for RAV4s and CRVs which were cut off...but the only choices were either the RX or the X-Trail and the latter was the only low priced unit).