Lancer EX Running Repairs and Maintenance

[trinity]

13 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

The ultimate repair/ moderate upgrade

4A91 1500CC engine swapped with 4B11 2000CC non-turbo engine.

I don't know the owner - just a random reg number look-up 

I know a place where there’s a 4B11 for sale with complete wire harness and all ?.

[Hyaenidae]

1 hour ago, trinity said:

I know a place where there’s a 4B11 for sale with complete wire harness and all ?.

Tempting, right? But ours being autos would make the swap rather complicated I think. The 4B11 was offered with a manual but not with an automatic, it had a CVT so we'd either have to get a manual box or the CVT meant for the 4B11.

[Davy]

5 hours ago, trinity said:

I know a place where there’s a 4B11 for sale with complete wire harness and all ?.

 

3 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

Tempting, right? But ours being autos would make the swap rather complicated I think. The 4B11 was offered with a manual but not with an automatic, it had a CVT so we'd either have to get a manual box or the CVT meant for the 4B11.

Wasn't the CVT offered on the EX? Even on later model ones? 

As for compatibility, it depends on the ECU that's available with the engine for sale. If the ECU is for a manual transmission, then you have to go manual or swap the ECU as well to do CVT. 

I do wonder if any model with a 4B11 engine came with a conventional auto transmission instead of CVT.

The EX GT came with this engine by the way. GT conversion? ?

[AVANTE]

23 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

The ultimate repair/ moderate upgrade

4A91 1500CC engine swapped with 4B11 2000CC non-turbo engine.

I don't know the owner - just a random reg number look-up 

Subtle sleeper, roaming around the streets of lanka..or could it be an Evo conversion?

Edited January 19, 2020 by □AVANTE□

[Hyaenidae]

6 hours ago, Davy said:

 

Wasn't the CVT offered on the EX? Even on later model ones? 

As for compatibility, it depends on the ECU that's available with the engine for sale. If the ECU is for a manual transmission, then you have to go manual or swap the ECU as well to do CVT. 

I do wonder if any model with a 4B11 engine came with a conventional auto transmission instead of CVT.

The EX GT came with this engine by the way. GT conversion? ?

No, even the 2016/17 facelift had an automatic transmission (for the 1600CC version).

The only major mechanical difference made since 2007 was the engine upgrade they did in 2012 (4A91 to 4A92) few minor differences were made along with the engine change: the exhaust was redesigned:

4A91 Exhaust:

 

4A92 exhaust:

 

EPS was replaced by HPS.

I've heard that the exhaust manifold is also different, no idea what the difference is

 

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Hyaenidae

[Hyaenidae]

2 hours ago, □AVANTE□ said:

Subtle sleeper, roaming around the streets of lanka..or could it be an Evo conversion?

Nope the engine code would be 4B11T then, but you never know with RMV buggers, maybe someone forgot the "T"

Edited January 19, 2020 by Hyaenidae

[AVANTE]

5 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

Nope the engine code would be 4B11T then, but you never know with RMV buggers, maybe someone forgot the "T"

Imagine having a Supra and the RMV buggers forget the '2' in 2JZ so now you have JayZ himself enslaved in your bonnet.

[K.o.N.o.S]

2 hours ago, □AVANTE□ said:

Subtle sleeper, roaming around the streets of lanka..or could it be an Evo conversion?

I am yet to see an Evo x conversion in SL

[AVANTE]

31 minutes ago, K.o.N.o.S said:

I am yet to see an Evo x conversion in SL

Same, an actual Evo X is cheaper than a potential conversion. Maybe we would see some Evo X conversions in another 5-10 years (if petrol prices are still affordable)

[K.o.N.o.S]

58 minutes ago, □AVANTE□ said:

Same, an actual Evo X is cheaper than a potential conversion. Maybe we would see some Evo X conversions in another 5-10 years (if petrol prices are still affordable)

FYI, evo x needs octane 98. Which means having to top up the tank always with 95+ octane booster. Wonder how those evo x’s are running in Sri Lanka. Cause I have seen 3 final editions and a handful of GSRs

[AVANTE]

35 minutes ago, K.o.N.o.S said:

FYI, evo x needs octane 98. Which means having to top up the tank always with 95+ octane booster. Wonder how those evo x’s are running in Sri Lanka. Cause I have seen 3 final editions and a handful of GSRs

I think 95 is manageable. A person I closely know has a mint, low mileage, original Toyota Glanza V for 3 years now and he usually pumps 92, sometimes 95. He has run in drag races & spirited driving and says the 92 has never made the engine hiccup or has never caused any turbo related problems.

So it would be safe to say a modern 280hp 2.0 Turbo should be ok with 95 provided you don't trash it 24/7. If that bothers you, then imagine how that luminous green 600hp R32 GTR or the numerous Ferrari 488s are running around?

[Davy]

On 1/19/2020 at 9:08 PM, □AVANTE□ said:

I think 95 is manageable. A person I closely know has a mint, low mileage, original Toyota Glanza V for 3 years now and he usually pumps 92, sometimes 95. He has run in drag races & spirited driving and says the 92 has never made the engine hiccup or has never caused any turbo related problems.

So it would be safe to say a modern 280hp 2.0 Turbo should be ok with 95 provided you don't trash it 24/7. If that bothers you, then imagine how that luminous green 600hp R32 GTR or the numerous Ferrari 488s are running around?

The manufacturer says strictly 98+ Octane for the 4B11T. My car's warranty booklet specifies that if anything lower than 98 is used, it will void the warranty. The owner's manual warns of potential engine damage as well. And then there's this on the fuel filler lid:

If you read on pre-ignition, you will understand how destructive it can be. Basically, since the low octane fuel cannot withstand pressure as much as the intended fuel, it ignites before the piston reaches the end of the compression stroke. This creates massive pressure inside the combustion chamber and can cause damage (not instantly obviously). The most obvious side effect is that the engine can overheat due to the excessive pressure in the combustion chamber and the list goes on.

So yeah, 98 for sure on most forced induction engines like the 4B11T. 

[AVANTE]

9 minutes ago, Davy said:

The manufacturer says strictly 98+ Octane for the 4B11T. My car's warranty booklet specifies that if anything lower than 98 is used, it will void the warranty. The owner's manual warns of potential engine damage as well. And then there's this on the fuel filler lid:

If you read on pre-ignition, you will understand how destructive it can be. Basically, since the low octane fuel cannot withstand pressure as much as the intended fuel, it ignites before the piston reaches the end of the compression stroke. This creates massive pressure inside the combustion chamber and can cause damage (not instantly obviously). The most obvious side effect is that the engine can overheat due to the excessive pressure in the combustion chamber and the list goes on.

So yeah, 98 for sure on most forced induction engines like the 4B11T. 

My wisdom has been increased...

But this leads back to the original question by @K.o.N.o.S..."how are those evos running around without a ruined engine"?

[Hyaenidae]

7 minutes ago, □AVANTE□ said:

My wisdom has been increased...

But this leads back to the original question by @K.o.N.o.S..."how are those evos running around without a ruined engine"?

Octane boosters. For example, Avgas and Toluene... Avgas has an octane rating of 100 so 6 liters of Avgas mixed with 4 liters of 95 octane petrol would make 10 liters of 98 octane fuel.

Toluene has an octane rating of 121, so 1 liter of toluene mixed with 9 liters of 95 octane petrol would make 10 liters of 98 octane petrol.

[AVANTE]

59 minutes ago, Hyaenidae said:

Octane boosters. For example, Avgas and Toluene... Avgas has an octane rating of 100 so 6 liters of Avgas mixed with 4 liters of 95 octane petrol would make 10 liters of 98 octane fuel.

Toluene has an octane rating of 121, so 1 liter of toluene mixed with 9 liters of 95 octane petrol would make 10 liters of 98 octane petrol.

Do evo X owners really go through the hassle of all this? I just recalled a racing engineer telling me they use avgas in their rally going Evos but hard to think the average street folk would go through the same.

[trinity]

4.CV Joint Replacement 

If you had read this thread from the beginning, you'd know that the fist repair I did to the car was the CV boot replacement. If not,It is this discussed in this post. Unfortunately the inevitable happened around the third week of December 2019. The replaced boot had torn and somehow gone unnoticed during the service. I noticed the famous taka taka sound one fine day morning during my drive to the office and immediately knew its the left side CV.

Sadly it was a very busy time for me hence couldn't find time to have the issue checked and try to sort it out if possible. I ran the car like that for couple of weeks and on January this year took it to Unit#d Mot#rs to have the issued checked out. By that time the noise was so bad I was avoiding the sharp turns as much as possible.

After checking, we found that the left side CV boot is torn much it was near to split in to two pieces. So I asked whether they have the part to replace and how much would that cost. While my car was being tested I saw another Lancer EX having its both CV axels removed so I figured this is reasonably costing job. But ladies and gents, I was wrong, I was so f**king wrong. 

Here is a photo of a right side CV axel which I took at the agent which was ready to be fixed to the above mentioned car.

Apparently replacing just the CV joint is not on the agents books. You have to replace the entire CV axel. Now, one axel cost over Rs.170,000/- at the agent. After hearing the price, i could see starts circling over my head. WTF am I supposed to do, I thought to my self. So the obvious next thing was to find out whether there are recon axels to source from the usual Mitsu recon part importers. 

Unfortunately almost all the guys/places I knew didn't have the part. Finally started looking in to inter webs and found a shop who had just imported two parted out Lancer EXs (Lancer - ES trim) from Australia which claimed that they have the part. The only doubt he had was that the engines of donor cars didn't mach with mine. It was 4B11 and mine is 4A91. I think 4A92 is not offered in Australia and Japan. Explains the difficulty in sourcing recon parts. The name of the shop is 'Alliance Auto Parts'. I suggest you check with the for any body parts and mechanical parts of any type of car as they have a huge stock. Also the owner is a very helpful guy name Nadun. 

Back to the story, the doubt was correct. The outer grooves of the recon part didn't mach. That was the only axel I found and it too didn't mach. I had a trip to Kandy upcoming by this time and I didn't want to runt the car with an exposed CV joint further more. So decided to have it cleaned up and fix a aftermarket boot as a temporary measure until I locate an axel. 

Here is a photo of the cleaned CV.

This temporary fix was done at my trusted mechanics place. After fixing the new boot I went the Kandy tour and ran it about 800 kms. The taka taka noise persisted throughout. 

Now you must be wondering why I didn't try to locate only the CV joint from local part importers as replacing CV joint is a common job. Yes I too wanted to look for it but initially I was told all sort of horror stories about replacing just the CV joint which made me to look for the entire axel. I wouldn't wanted to do something which is not recommended by the manufacturer. But as a last resort I had to opt to this. My mechanic was so reluctant to replace just the CV joint I had to fid another one who knew his way around Lancers who was willing to do this job. Fortunately, through a contact in Toyota Lanka I was introduced a Mitsu guy who surprisingly live near my town and was available to do the job.

By this time the car was due its regular oil change and I went to Unit#d Mot#rs Hyde Park to get it done. There they showed me that right side CV boot is also leaking and they suspected right side CV is also busted. f**k me side ways right?? I decided to bite the bullet and have both CVs replaced at any cost by this time.

So,I contacted 'Wimal Motors' which is located in Moratuwa (These guys are very helpful and their prices are very reasonable . Their return policy is also flexible) to see whether they have the CV joints to be bought. To my surprise they had the parts. One quoted Rs.8k and sold for 7K. Bought 2 for 14K. The brand is HDK and are made in Japan. The shop instructed me to count the inner and outer grooves of the existing CV and match with the numbers of the new one before opening up the package.

 

Above is the package, you can see the numbers 25 & 23. That is the count of outer and inner grooves. So we removed the CV axel last Saturday and counted the grooves. Oh everything was ok, right.. No you guys, It won't work that way. At least for me, these car things will never work out at one go. My CV axel had 28 outer grooves. I should have kept this counted at the time I removed the axel initially but I didn't. So there's a lesson in that for all of us.

Called Wimal Motors and took the parts back with the removed axel. Now you would think that they had the part I wanted with them. After searching their books and shop for agonising 15 minutes I was informed that they didn't  have the part. But offered to contact their suppliers and have them bought down within few hours if available..

To be continued..

 

[trinity]

Continued from last post.

So I gladly took that offer. They wanted the chassis number of the car (which I had with me) to be sent with the measurements of the CV joint to the supplier. Finally they found the part and informed that price of a one is Rs.15k and its not HDK as well. Didn't have any other option but to buy them, so ordered two. After few hours I had the parts.

It's Chinese I guess, and imported from Dubai. 

 

It's a complete kit, The CV joint, Boot, Grease and boot tightening metallic straps. 

Quality wise it didn't seem bad and the boot was also much better. Its a rubber boot though. The genuine one is not rubber.

Remember you Lancer EX owners, if this happened to you, the number of grooves in the CV joint are as follows.

Outer - 28

Inner - 30

The important thing is that it is not possible to count the inner number of grooves of the existing CV joint without cutting it open. Once that is done, there is no turning back obviously.

So, to remove the CV joint, first part that is holding the ball bearings have to be cut open and the bearings should be removed one by one. Once that is done, the outer cup can be removed. Thereafter you have to carefully cut the part that is fixed to the axel without harming the axel. This is a very delicate job. One mistake, you have to replace the entire axel. This took some time to do. 

Finally all came out and the new part went in without any trouble.

Installed the left CV first and started the right one, surprise, surprise... that boot is not broken. It was some oil and dust which had given the looks of a broken boot. So we greased it and fixed it back. All in all this should have been a few hours job but extended up to 6 in the evening due to the issues stated above. 

The labour cost was Rs.5k.

Now everything is ok. I'm in two minds whether to return the spare CV joint or keep it with me for future use if needed. 

Have to get the alignment done now. Thats it.

So gents, I hope you'll learn from my mistakes if the need comes. Do share your thoughts.

Cheers!

[Hyaenidae]

1 hour ago, trinity said:

4.CV Joint Replacement 

 

What a tale @trinity!!

Why didn't you try the Ebay route though? 

[Hyaenidae]

See, it costs about 12k. Made in Germany too. (0410-CY2)

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282065505624

Edited January 27, 2020 by Hyaenidae

[K.o.N.o.S]

15 hours ago, trinity said:

Remember you Lancer EX owners, if this happened to you, the number of grooves in the CV joint are as follows.

 Outer - 28

 Inner - 30

@trinity helpful information and thanks for sharing the interesting story. Glad you sorted this out. About the spare cv joint I think you had better keep it at your disposal just in case. Also CV axel for 170k at unimo? That’s just ridiculous IMO. Remember in my case they quoted 32k for just one tiny ABS sensor. 

[Hyaenidae]

So I did a google search on this CV axle dilemma, here's what I came across so far:

Trinity was absolutely correct when he said "Apparently  replacing just the CV joint is not on the agents books". Here's what the workshop manual says:

"As for the EBJ assembly, only the EBJ boot can be replaceable, and other parts cannot be disassembled."

As you can see the inner CV joint can be replaced rather easily and since it is "in the book", the agent might be doing it too. Replacing the outer CV joint, or the "EBJ" as the workshop manual calls it, is not recommended by the manufacturer.

This isn't an issue exclusive to the Lancer, same outer CV joint design is employed in many cars. It seems that the outer CV joint replacement isn't a common job anyways, atleast in Sri Lanka. If the outer CV joint goes bad the entire CV axle is almost always replaced with a reconditioned or "Thaiwan" one.

Unfortunately for us EX owners however, either of those are not very feasible, as @trinity has experienced.

The outer joint for the EX is easily found on eBay (link above) but you'll have to find a technician who is willing to do the job. However, it seems that you don't have to cut the joint off the axle if you have the correct tools or the experience:

CVJ/EBJ removal explanation:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2181123

Hydraulic press method:

 

Cutting method:

 

 

CV joint puller tool:

 

 

So what I learned from @trinity's experience is that we should check the CV boots more often... Thanks again for sharing, mate!

Starting today, I'll be taking a good hard look at the CV boots atleast once a week ? probably each time I wash the car.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Hyaenidae

[trinity]

16 hours ago, Hyaenidae said:

See, it costs about 12k. Made in Germany too.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F282065505624

I searched, but didnt come across this. This would have been better. Another reason I opted to source the part locally is that i'm going on a 3 day trip to Haputale this weekend. So I needed this fixed before I drive the car on a hilly road with lots of sharp turns.

[trinity]

1 hour ago, K.o.N.o.S said:

@trinity helpful information and thanks for sharing the interesting story. Glad you sorted this out. About the spare cv joint I think you had better keep it at your disposal just in case. Also CV axel for 170k at unimo? That’s just ridiculous IMO. Remember in my case they quoted 32k for just one tiny ABS sensor. 

Yeh, the prices of these parts are just ridiculous. After seeing the above ebay link posted by @Hyaenidae (actually how the should this name be pronounced?? ) I decided to return the part. Besides I very well will pay more attention to the CV boots in future. So the chances of damaging the other CV could be considered somewhat low.

[trinity]

1 hour ago, Hyaenidae said:

So I did a google search on this CV axle dilemma, here's what I came across so far:

Trinity was absolutely correct when he said "Apparently  replacing just the CV joint is not on the agents books". Here's what the workshop manual says:

"As for the EBJ assembly, only the EBJ boot can be replaceable, and other parts cannot be disassembled."

As you can see the inner CV joint can be replaced rather easily and since it is "in the book", the agent might be doing it too. Replacing the outer CV joint, or the "EBJ" as the workshop manual calls it, is not recommended by the manufacturer.

This isn't an issue exclusive to the Lancer, same outer CV joint design is employed in many cars. It seems that the outer CV joint replacement isn't a common job anyways, atleast in Sri Lanka. If the outer CV joint goes bad the entire CV axle is almost always replaced with a reconditioned or "Thaiwan" one.

Unfortunately for us EX owners however, either of those are not very feasible, as @trinity has experienced.

The outer joint for the EX is easily found on eBay (link above) but you'll have to find a technician who is willing to do the job. However, it seems that you don't have to cut the joint off the axle if you have the correct tools or the experience:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2181123

 

 

So what I learned from @trinity's experience is that we should check the CV boots more often... Thanks again for sharing, mate!

Starting today, I'll be taking a good hard look at the CV boots atleast once a week ? probably each time I wash the car.

Yes machang, this should be kept in mind at all times. Shouldn't take a chance. 

I'm unable to watch the video at the office, Will take a look at this when I go home.

This repair came at a very difficult time for me as I already had spent just over 50k for the tune up plus the petrol filter replacement and my insurance also had to be renewed in this month. I hope by sharing this, someone else will be able to avoid facing these kinds of preventable repairs in future.

[K.o.N.o.S]

2 hours ago, trinity said:

actually how the should this name be pronounced

@Hyaenidae= I always think to myself ohh “Hyundai” has responded.??