Tesla’s $25,000 Electric Car Means Game Over For Gas And Oil

[Pericles]

Interesting. Little bit of Crystal Ball Gazing, but if things happen as predicted, interesting.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/09/26/teslas-25000-electric-car-means-game-over-for-gas-and-oil/?fbclid=IwAR0md8UHNv6VJ1HQcqmj5lyYJd7z_C5Dv998qMlnhNRGB7ujVTxtQQx3lu0#1c041d8a1ee7

[ajm]

Even if we assume all drivers will prefer electric over traditional engines, EV success will be depending on how the charging infrastructure develops isn't it?  Especially in developing countries  the acceptance would be slow unless the governments back investments in the charging infrastructure.

[john cooper]

When this landed to SL, about 10mil in TAX so the price will be about 20mil in SL ?

So i don't think this is a game changer in SL car market.

[kmeeg]

1 hour ago, ajm said:

EV success will be depending on how the charging infrastructure develops isn't it? 

Very valid point. For me personally they don't have realistic range and charging options.  (in addition to lack capability on rough terrain as of now).

If they build a capable vehicle with good electric range and have good infrastructure for charging for the same price as gas vehicles I'm more than happy to move to an quiet electric vehicle.

 

[iRage]

Well...Tesla has had a strong track record of over promising and under delivering. This is what they (he) said about the Model 3 (being 25,000-35,000) but then that thing costs about 45,000USD BASE (without any options/add-ons). Then there was the whole promise about the truck which was to be delivered in 2019, well its is 2020 and nothing of it. Then there was the whole home power system that was promised to be affordable....

Didn't Tesla announce a new battery that has a huge power and range jump than what they use right now ? 

Tesla has such a lot of time relevant and futuristing ideas but seems to get lost in its own marketing stories. If they just stuck to the tech ideas and took away all the fancy stuff I think they would have had much better success in rolling al this out.

[Gummybr]

Well for me its not big news, firstly I think other mainstream manufacturers have done it previously (a Nissan Leaf starts at $ 31,600 in the USA and if you get the federal tax cut its about $ 24,000) I'm sure the Renault must be cheaper. Yes they dont have the tech know how in terms of EV that Tesla has, after all Tesla is just a EV manufacturer. Also you go to China, they have so many EV's that are much cheaper.

Secondly car maybe cheap but what about infrastructure for charging, how long are you going to charge your car if you were to do a road trip. (thinking of the future, yes there will be fast chargers that will come in etc. also I hear that UK is banning the ICE vehicles by 2035 so yes charging tech and availability should increase)

Thirdly our tax structure, a vehicle having 100kW power from the motor is taxed Rs. 1,000,000/- brand new and Rs. 3,000,000/- new/recon, anything with 200kW BN is Rs. 3,000,000/- and Rs. 9,000,000/- new/recon, anything above that is taxed at Rs. 45,000 per kW B/N and Rs. 60,000 per kW new/recon. A tesla has over 200kW of power and is not offered brand new in our country, so do the maths. (I still cant get around the fact that people have managed to bring in Tesla's as Rs. 15,000,000/- range. ?‍♂️

[Pericles]

13 hours ago, kmeeg said:

Very valid point. For me personally they don't have realistic range and charging options.  (in addition to lack capability on rough terrain as of now).

If they build a capable vehicle with good electric range and have good infrastructure for charging for the same price as gas vehicles I'm more than happy to move to an quiet electric vehicle.

 

300km in a island this size? For a city runabout sized vehicle?

[Pericles]

10 hours ago, iRage said:

Well...Tesla has had a strong track record of over promising and under delivering. This is what they (he) said about the Model 3 (being 25,000-35,000) but then that thing costs about 45,000USD BASE (without any options/add-ons). Then there was the whole promise about the truck which was to be delivered in 2019, well its is 2020 and nothing of it. Then there was the whole home power system that was promised to be affordable....

Didn't Tesla announce a new battery that has a huge power and range jump than what they use right now ? 

Tesla has such a lot of time relevant and futuristing ideas but seems to get lost in its own marketing stories. If they just stuck to the tech ideas and took away all the fancy stuff I think they would have had much better success in rolling al this out.

I think that battery improvement is the main takeaway from this article.

[Gummybr]

This would be a game changer the BYD Dolphin

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/dolphin-former-ea1-will-be-the-first-to-adopt-byd-s-e-platform-30-164083.html

Most impressive would be the following,

0-100kmph in 2.9s

Range of 1000kms

150kms from a 5 min charge

Blade batteries (lithium phosphate iron) that do not catch fire and last for more than 1.2million Kms.

[MaleCortana]

1 hour ago, Gummybr said:

This would be a game changer the BYD Dolphin

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/dolphin-former-ea1-will-be-the-first-to-adopt-byd-s-e-platform-30-164083.html

Most impressive would be the following,

0-100kmph in 2.9s

Range of 1000kms

150kms from a 5 min charge

Blade batteries (lithium phosphate iron) that do not catch fire and last for more than 1.2million Kms.

Why don't we actually import some of these cars?

Would appease to nature + our Chinese Overlords will be happy

[Gummybr]

41 minutes ago, MaleCortana said:

Why don't we actually import some of these cars?

Would appease to nature + our Chinese Overlords will be happy

If they take our Rupees instead of Dollars maybe we can 😆

Or we give more parts of the emerald isle to them as payment.

Dont think the country will open up for vehicles for another 2 years, the rule makers are duping the general public about buying local made, which are in fact vehicles bought down as parts and assembled paying the same dollar amounts to the manufacturer (only a loss of duty) rather than saving any dollars.

[ajm]

Looks like hydrogen combustion engines are getting a strong push from toyota as an alternative to electric 🤔

 

Edited June 29, 2021 by ajm

[zeristo]

On 9/30/2020 at 8:22 AM, Gummybr said:

Thirdly our tax structure, a vehicle having 100kW power from the motor is taxed Rs. 1,000,000/- brand new and Rs. 3,000,000/- new/recon, anything with 200kW BN is Rs. 3,000,000/- and Rs. 9,000,000/- new/recon, anything above that is taxed at Rs. 45,000 per kW B/N and Rs. 60,000 per kW new/recon. A tesla has over 200kW of power and is not offered brand new in our country, so do the maths. (I still cant get around the fact that people have managed to bring in Tesla's as Rs. 15,000,000/- range. ?‍♂️

A small correction here, albeit a bit late...

The duty for electric cars is based on battery capacity ( which is measured in terms of kWh or kilowatthour ) and not output power ( measured in kW or bhp or PS or HP). In reality a Tesla Model 3 Long range with a 82kWh battery would attract a tax of Rs. 820,000 only (given that the luxury tax isn't considered here). Its not the duty but the price of the car in itself that makes it too expensive to buy.

TLDR: YOU HAVE MISTAKEN POWER IN KW FOR BATTERY CAPACITY IN KWH.

[iRage]

16 hours ago, Gummybr said:

the rule makers are duping the general public about buying local made, which are in fact vehicles bought down as parts and assembled paying the same dollar amounts to the manufacturer (only a loss of duty) rather than saving any dollars.

Well..I think it would be slightly cheaper than the entire car because the value addition of assembly is not there. But then this being Sri Lanka and knowing the intellectual capacity of our pundits and their capacity to negotiate...you never know (in fact I wouldnt be surprised if they end up paying more in parts for a car than the actual assembled car itself).

As for duty/tax...do you know how it works in SL ? Is it strictly import duty free ?
In country's like in Vietnam the parts have a different lower tax structure so even if the parts come in for assembly, the country does not lose that much in tax revenue just because a car is assembled. In Vietnam; the total taxes for an imported fully built car (from a non ASEAN country) adds up to anything from 150-200% depending on the car (200% for the likes of SUVs and Bentleys and such). Whilst a locally assembled car would only rack up a maximum of about 120% in taxes (for the likes of SUVs,Bentleys, etc...) 

As for the BYD electric cars....wasn't there some BYD electric vehicle showcased a few years back in SL ? Whatever happened to it ?
Come to think of it...since the industry is changing and we are at the brink of a revolution....maybe Sri Lanka should straight away look in to building electric cars or components for those... will take time and we will literally see zero feasible cars for sometime..but at least we will be abe to get a jump start on the curve and actually start looking at it in terms of the regional market rather than just the local one (which I doubt will have enough volume to make sense in the long run). We are starting to establish assembly plants for a product that is more than likely going to be obsolete to the world in a relatively short time (by he time we reach any maturity in this area to develop a high quality product the world would have moved away from ICE cars). 

[Gummybr]

15 hours ago, zeristo said:

A small correction here, albeit a bit late...

The duty for electric cars is based on battery capacity ( which is measured in terms of kWh or kilowatthour ) and not output power ( measured in kW or bhp or PS or HP). In reality a Tesla Model 3 Long range with a 82kWh battery would attract a tax of Rs. 820,000 only (given that the luxury tax isn't considered here). Its not the duty but the price of the car in itself that makes it too expensive to buy.

TLDR: YOU HAVE MISTAKEN POWER IN KW FOR BATTERY CAPACITY IN KWH.

Nope duty is based on the power. clearly mentioned in the HS Code. If so the blooming Nissan Leaf would have been dirt cheap (2nd Gen) rather they were sold for more than 8mil.

In which world do you have over 200Kwh battery powered cars?

It clearly states kW (capacity of motors) refer this http://www.customs.gov.lk/public/files/tariff_2021/Ch 87.pdf 8703.80.31 onwards. Just shows how the importers have duped the government and bought those Tesla's cheap.

Edited June 30, 2021 by Gummybr

[Gummybr]

3 hours ago, iRage said:

Well..I think it would be slightly cheaper than the entire car because the value addition of assembly is not there. But then this being Sri Lanka and knowing the intellectual capacity of our pundits and their capacity to negotiate...you never know (in fact I wouldnt be surprised if they end up paying more in parts for a car than the actual assembled car itself).

As for duty/tax...do you know how it works in SL ? Is it strictly import duty free ?
In country's like in Vietnam the parts have a different lower tax structure so even if the parts come in for assembly, the country does not lose that much in tax revenue just because a car is assembled. In Vietnam; the total taxes for an imported fully built car (from a non ASEAN country) adds up to anything from 150-200% depending on the car (200% for the likes of SUVs and Bentleys and such). Whilst a locally assembled car would only rack up a maximum of about 120% in taxes (for the likes of SUVs,Bentleys, etc...) 

 

Thing is our guys buys the whole vehicle and brings it down, what happens is that they have to align the chassis to the engine number. So if I am not mistaken you pay the full duty through a bank guarantee, however when the vehicle is assembled they need to show the 30% value addition which is then reduced from the duty (this is what I was told by an ex finance guy from a vehicle assembler). This is the reason there is not much of a difference in price for a duty paid vs assembled vehicle (ex: Mahindra KUV)

3 hours ago, iRage said:

 

As for the BYD electric cars....wasn't there some BYD electric vehicle showcased a few years back in SL ? Whatever happened to it ?
Come to think of it...since the industry is changing and we are at the brink of a revolution....maybe Sri Lanka should straight away look in to building electric cars or components for those... will take time and we will literally see zero feasible cars for sometime..but at least we will be abe to get a jump start on the curve and actually start looking at it in terms of the regional market rather than just the local one (which I doubt will have enough volume to make sense in the long run). We are starting to establish assembly plants for a product that is more than likely going to be obsolete to the world in a relatively short time (by he time we reach any maturity in this area to develop a high quality product the world would have moved away from ICE cars). 

BYD was bought down those days by D*MO, but Tata didnt want it so they had to sell them off cheap (you see them running round through Kangaroo cabs who love it, but had a hard time convincing) and right now there is no agent. They were sold off for about 6mil with the home charger unit thrown free of charge, they could do the run to Galle and to the hill country in one charge which was tested before Kangaroo bought them.

 

On the industry changing yes, but our guys are still looking at the past laurels, time for Vega to go mainstream and offer EV conversions. If you cant bring vehicles might as well do full conversions on those Leafs that are sitting around. I saw that someone was converting an Electric Mercedes B Class to petrol (must be the same guy who was converting the Leaf into a bastard Toyota Axio / Aqua)

[zeristo]

6 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Nope duty is based on the power. clearly mentioned in the HS Code. If so the blooming Nissan Leaf would have been dirt cheap (2nd Gen) rather they were sold for more than 8mil.

In which world do you have over 200Kwh battery powered cars?

It clearly states kW (capacity of motors) refer this http://www.customs.gov.lk/public/files/tariff_2021/Ch 87.pdf 8703.80.31 onwards. Just shows how the importers have duped the government and bought those Tesla's cheap.

My bad, I was wrong ! Thanks for pointing out @Gummybr

EVs are known to have a lot of power and taxing them based on power rather than battery capacity seems absurd ! Regular ICE cars are taxed based on engine capacity and not power.

No wonder the EV revolution isn't coming to paradise isle anytime soon. 

On another note, this system can easily be cheated by importing a low powered version and updating software to bump the power output using over the air software updates. 

[Gummybr]

1 hour ago, zeristo said:

My bad, I was wrong ! Thanks for pointing out @Gummybr

EVs are known to have a lot of power and taxing them based on power rather than battery capacity seems absurd ! Regular ICE cars are taxed based on engine capacity and not power.

No wonder the EV revolution isn't coming to paradise isle anytime soon. 

On another note, this system can easily be cheated by importing a low powered version and updating software to bump the power output using over the air software updates. 

Look as long as a country doesnt have a proper idea of what they are doing there wont be anything new happening. EV's could have taken off sometime back when the Leaf, MiEV, MB B250e, i3, Reva etc. Our local guys got on the bandwagon but they never understood the issues that would come up with no infrastructure etc (in marketing you call them early adopters, but in this case they failed). The governments who were talking so high on EV revolutions never had a proper policy, which they still dont have other than praising their short term initiatives. Other countries have gone longer distance compared to Sri Lanka. We still dont have proper charging (leave aside a supercharging) nor have we decided to have one type of charge cable like other countries do.

Early adopters all bought the cars thinking how cheap they were (this is what the car sales people told them when they sold them) but they never thought of how much time you will spend at the charger nor the distance you could do on a full charge, no wonder manufacturers were reluctant to export the EV's to Sri Lanka as they knew that we never had the infrastructure. So when the battery issues and range anxiety came in everyone is now looking to sell their vehicles and some might never step into an EV for a long time.

On cheating the system, we as a nation are very good at it arent we, whatever the rules & regulations we always look at the loopholes (just like the CTB ticket machine which was said to be tamper proof was found out by our people).