Japanese Car News

[Kavvz]

On 9/14/2020 at 8:54 PM, iRage said:

..."The image is just a rendering using the existing model and some information these people have scooped up"...

Nice rendering. Wow: LC200 type vehicles look great with big wheels on them don't they? (these look like 35's ?) Too bad they make it drive so slow for road use when you put on huge wheels like that... 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Kavvz

[iRage]

7 hours ago, Kavvz said:

The same engine as the Skyline ? Hmm the VQ35DE  then>? Nothing bad about that (that's what the previous Z had too right?) its a pretty solid powerplant and Nissan's manual shift with active rev matching sounds dead cool (yet to drive it)

No....the VR30DETT is what is rumored. The VQ is old and is being retired and is been replaced by the VR.

Edited September 17, 2020 by iRage

[Gummybr]

7 hours ago, Kavvz said:

This on the other hand looks really good! Wish I could afford one...   Why didn't they let the guy (or girl) who designed this one do the new Z ? 

Think that it was designed by the famous Italian design house, who also celebrated their anniversary. 

[Kavvz]

1 hour ago, Gummybr said:

Think that it was designed by the famous Italian design house, who also celebrated their anniversary. 

Exactly! Why is Nissan is messing about instead...I mean its not like they have a pile of cash to burn through is it? Its make or break time for Nissan.

Although to be honest the Z isn't where the money is, its going to be about the next batch of SUV's...But still, it wouldn't hurt to have a nice looking sports car to boost the brand up...

[Gummybr]

3 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Exactly! Why is Nissan is messing about instead...I mean its not like they have a pile of cash to burn through is it? Its make or break time for Nissan.

Although to be honest the Z isn't where the money is, its going to be about the next batch of SUV's...But still, it wouldn't hurt to have a nice looking sports car to boost the brand up...

Kavvz, that Nissan GTR Limited Edition costs almost Rs. 1mil. Definitely not what they want in terms of price and numbers. The engine they talk about is / could be the same engine on the Infiniti Q60 Red 400 (3.0l twin turbo with 400hp). Z is going to be a nostalgic car and with the manual they will appeal more to the motor sport crowd, something others have neglected. BMW M models and the AMG's have been doing well in terms of catering to this market. So you cant just write it off yet.

 

On the SUV craze, Nissan started the crossover trend with the Qashqai and the Juke. True not a lot of people liked the idea of a tall vehicle replacing the Sedan's (Almera and Primera in UK) but now everyone is taking that route. They were trail blazers but couldnt back up with good follow up models as they were left behind with the others entering into that market. The Ariya concept shows that they want to go main stream with the electric offerings by not being limited to the Leaf (again a trail blazer). Initially I think most were expecting a Crossover type Z to come, but then what they have come up with is good, but still has too much of a design similar to the outgoing model (the door handles etc, doesnt give the feeling of things have changed)

 

Their true Halo / flagship is the GTR and they will not go away from that. The GTR name and the Z name carries a lot of weight for Nissan. The new Maxima and the Titan is having good reviews in the US, they just need to hit that EU market and China hard if they are to survive, since thats where the sales are. Maybe down the line some of their other iconic name plates will come back.

[Kavvz]

4 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Kavvz, that Nissan GTR Limited Edition costs almost Rs. 1mil. Definitely not what they want in terms of price and numbers. The engine they talk about is / could be the same engine on the Infiniti Q60 Red 400 (3.0l twin turbo with 400hp). Z is going to be a nostalgic car and with the manual they will appeal more to the motor sport crowd, something others have neglected. BMW M models and the AMG's have been doing well in terms of catering to this market. So you cant just write it off yet.

Hopefully it works out. ?

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Kavvz, that Nissan GTR Limited Edition costs almost Rs. 1mil. Definitely not what they want in terms of price and numbers. The engine they talk about is / could be the same engine on the Infiniti Q60 Red 400 (3.0l twin turbo with 400hp). Z is going to be a nostalgic car and with the manual they will appeal more to the motor sport crowd, something others have neglected. BMW M models and the AMG's have been doing well in terms of catering to this market. So you cant just write it off yet.

 

On the SUV craze, Nissan started the crossover trend with the Qashqai and the Juke. True not a lot of people liked the idea of a tall vehicle replacing the Sedan's (Almera and Primera in UK) but now everyone is taking that route. They were trail blazers but couldnt back up with good follow up models as they were left behind with the others entering into that market. The Ariya concept shows that they want to go main stream with the electric offerings by not being limited to the Leaf (again a trail blazer). Initially I think most were expecting a Crossover type Z to come, but then what they have come up with is good, but still has too much of a design similar to the outgoing model (the door handles etc, doesnt give the feeling of things have changed)

 

Their true Halo / flagship is the GTR and they will not go away from that. The GTR name and the Z name carries a lot of weight for Nissan. The new Maxima and the Titan is having good reviews in the US, they just need to hit that EU market and China hard if they are to survive, since thats where the sales are. Maybe down the line some of their other iconic name plates will come back.

Yes...the popular opinion is that it will be the VR30DETT found in the Skyline/Infinity Qs in two flavors...the de-tuned 300hp variant plus the tuned up 400hp version which the Red line has. Then there was also speculation that a 2L VC  engine can be put in there..but then so far the VC engines are designed to favor CVTs. In the Q&A section a journalist asked whether it would be priced around 4-5mil yen mark and the response was that it is a car you can get if you work hard. Then there was also a followup asking if that meant there would be an entry level variant....for which the answer was a smile (in a Japanese way of saying could it be). So it could be that there would be several options as well. Sadly the motor sport crowd alone does not pay the bills. Niether do the enthusiasts to be honest. 

As for the GTR...yes..GTR is Nissan's halo car...but sadly it has gotten really really tiring and it is shown in the sales slump. The Skyline was relevant until there were no competitors...but in the face of competition it has lost out. Even the Supra..which is less practical and not even a fully Japanese car is doing better than the Skyline in Japan. Let's face it....the people who CAN AFFORD to buy Skylines and Supras are not the majority of the enthusiasts (like you and I who talk about heritage and and drive train and stuff). They are people who want the bright shiny thing that is new.  If Nissan actually treated it as a proper halo car they should have just stopped production a while a go and kept people salivating for a new model. Instead they completely dried it out. The final edition is going to be only 20 units prices around 40 mil yen (so a lot lower than the 1mil USD price tag of the anniversary model), but only in 2022. Then again, Nissan is probably just putting out only 20 units because they themselves know that they won't be able to sell many when everyone more or less knows that there will be a new model just a year later.  

I don't know the context in which you said the Qashqai and Juke started the crossover craze. But not at all....the first crossover actually was an AMC out in America and I believe Subaru....but the craze started with the RAV4 and then the CRV in 1994/1995ish (even in the UK)...after which you got the Tribute, etc...then the X Trail. It is just that the likes of the Qasqai and Juke took over the smaller segments after the RAV4, CRV, etc..got obese. 

Sadly...and this is the concern most have about the Z as well; the Altima is supposed to be a better car than what it was and is good..but based on most reviews it stops short. Even with the more powerful VC engine it just simply not as crisp and responsive as it can be.The same can be said with the Skyline...test drove it when it first came out with a Merc engine and later on with a VR engine. Engines were nice....but...the handling sucked..the steering felt like a fake steering whee from a cheap chinese gaming rig. The idea of a halo car is that the tech and R&D trickles down, but that simply is not visible in their day to day cars which seem like a hodge podge of things they plucked and stuck together. 

On the plus side...the new Leaf is pretty nice for what it is and so is the Kicks (I do not like the weird engine rev thing it does to keep the power constant though). The car is a bit hard around the city but on the open road it does come together.... It seems like they always started designing this amazing car and then just stopped...like everyone in the design team just got distracted by a butterfly or something. Which is also the fear with most of the Z clubs over here...that Nissan did not reveal much tech details was because they are borrowing a lot from already existing stuff.

What really gets to me is their PR campaign. They have all these amazing PR materials that pretty much tugs he heart strings. But it it almost as if they are begging the enthusiasts to buy their cars when they really have not given much for the enthusiasts to fall in love with.

EDIT : Another good thing Nissan has got right is their driver assist system. Far better than the weird crap all the other Japanese manufacturers have

Edited September 17, 2020 by iRage

[john cooper]

Someone going to be lucky, look at the k’s

 

[kmeeg]

28 minutes ago, john cooper said:

Someone going to be lucky, look at the k’s

 

Wow, there's no way.. If that's real that would be the luckiest ownership.

That would be a dream to own classics like this. 40s, 60s, 80, etc..

[john cooper]

22 minutes ago, kmeeg said:

Wow, there's no way.. If that's real that would be the luckiest ownership.

That would be a dream to own classics like this. 40s, 60s, 80, etc..

It is genuine, with the book.

With my experience, Japanese owners won't tamper the speedo :-)

[john cooper]

I’ll see if I could get the auction sheet. It is not in the listing.

[iRage]

Would be interesting to see how much this would go for. 

A really good condition 40 with about 120K on the clock fetches anything from 4.5mil to 7mil yen over here....probably owned by an enthusiast ? So even though it has literally stood still for 41 years I suppose all the fluids were kept flowing and everything kept hydrated all the time. 

[kmeeg]

Here's some pics I took of another treasure.

 

[Gummybr]

13 hours ago, iRage said:

 

I don't know the context in which you said the Qashqai and Juke started the crossover craze. But not at all....the first crossover actually was an AMC out in America and I believe Subaru....but the craze started with the RAV4 and then the CRV in 1994/1995ish (even in the UK)...after which you got the Tribute, etc...then the X Trail. It is just that the likes of the Qasqai and Juke took over the smaller segments after the RAV4, CRV, etc..got obese. 

Sadly...and this is the concern most have about the Z as well; the Altima is supposed to be a better car than what it was and is good..but based on most reviews it stops short. Even with the more powerful VC engine it just simply not as crisp and responsive as it can be.The same can be said with the Skyline...test drove it when it first came out with a Merc engine and later on with a VR engine. Engines were nice....but...the handling sucked..the steering felt like a fake steering whee from a cheap chinese gaming rig. The idea of a halo car is that the tech and R&D trickles down, but that simply is not visible in their day to day cars which seem like a hodge podge of things they plucked and stuck together. 

On the plus side...the new Leaf is pretty nice for what it is and so is the Kicks (I do not like the weird engine rev thing it does to keep the power constant though). The car is a bit hard around the city but on the open road it does come together.... It seems like they always started designing this amazing car and then just stopped...like everyone in the design team just got distracted by a butterfly or something. Which is also the fear with most of the Z clubs over here...that Nissan did not reveal much tech details was because they are borrowing a lot from already existing stuff.

What really gets to me is their PR campaign. They have all these amazing PR materials that pretty much tugs he heart strings. But it it almost as if they are begging the enthusiasts to buy their cars when they really have not given much for the enthusiasts to fall in love with.

EDIT : Another good thing Nissan has got right is their driver assist system. Far better than the weird crap all the other Japanese manufacturers have

What I meant to say is that yes there were crossovers but it was these two that took it to another level in terms of sales, which got the others also into the market. Why do you think that MB, BMW, Audi all came up with the smaller crossovers. They found out that there is a market for that type of vehicles given the sales numbers posted.

 

On the Altima, I think the issue is with the gearbox. People still dont like the CVT gearbox, Nissan put a CVT on their performance engines which made the car lethargic. I think on the Skyline you refer to the Infiniti model, dont think that the electric steering system works properly, it must be awefull to feel that there is no steering feel unlike on a mechanical set up.

On the PR campaign, yes I think they are doing quite well pre launch, but all that for a 1 hour talk show is not what is required. As you say they may be distracted. Its all about engagement in what you do, cant build up for something special and deliver something sub standard.

[iRage]

5 hours ago, Gummybr said:

What I meant to say is that yes there were crossovers but it was these two that took it to another level in terms of sales, which got the others also into the market. Why do you think that MB, BMW, Audi all came up with the smaller crossovers. They found out that there is a market for that type of vehicles given the sales numbers posted.

On the Altima, I think the issue is with the gearbox. People still dont like the CVT gearbox, Nissan put a CVT on their performance engines which made the car lethargic. I think on the Skyline you refer to the Infiniti model, dont think that the electric steering system works properly, it must be awefull to feel that there is no steering feel unlike on a mechanical set up.

On the PR campaign, yes I think they are doing quite well pre launch, but all that for a 1 hour talk show is not what is required. As you say they may be distracted. Its all about engagement in what you do, cant build up for something special and deliver something sub standard.

Okay..fair enough...was not sure what you actually meant by starting the crossover craze. Yes..it was the Juke that started the smaller hatch like crossover market that was much softer whilst the older gang got larger and shifted upwards. 

Yes...the Skyline which is sold as Inifiniti in the US and Europe (and the Skyline had the Infiniti badge on it in Japan until..last year ? year before ?).

Exactly...that talk show left half getting awed by the looks and nostalgia and left another high and dry wandering if Nissan is actually delivering on the Z expectations. If they had been a bit more technical then they would have easily and completely won over the other half as well.

but then again..all of these manufacturers (at least the Japanese ones) are missing the mark as well. If you look at the AE86, the Sylvias, and even the Starlet Glanzas, Carina GTs...they were all affordable cars that the masses had access to. Yes...cars like the Celica GT Four, 300ZX were considerably more expensive but they had a selection of more affordable sporty and inspiring cars. They do not have them anymore. Back in the day the price difference between a Celica GT Four and a base Celica was about 750,000yen-ish ? (don't quote me on that...I cannot remember); but if you take the GR Yaris RZ and the highest spec standard Yaris, it is more than double the price. Even if you take the base GR Yaris which is the RS with the 1.5L CVT..its still double the price. If they want future generations and the mass population to be behind the wheel..then they need to make fun cars that they can afford.

[Kavvz]

https://carbuzz.com/news/nissans-new-z-car-is-all-about-the-connection

Seems like Nissan are heavily vested in promoting the new Z to the 'automotive enthusiast' crowd: Hopefully its something to look forward to and not the flop I fear. 

I'm still not sold on the exterior; but I guess I'm not the target market. But I do like what I can see of the interior: Way better than the dated interior that was on the previous car...

[iRage]

Suzuki expands its Toyota line up...

First the RAV4..now the Corolla Touring, labelled the SWACE, for the European market. I suppose it makes sense for both manufacturers as each tries to get in to the markets the other one is well established in (Suzuki wanting Europe and Toyota wanting India)

[priyanka]

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/toyota-landcruiser-300-series-delayed-126350

[iRage]

7 hours ago, priyanka said:

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/toyota-landcruiser-300-series-delayed-126350

Actually...carsales.com.au is not very reliable when it comes to news. They misreported that the LC300 would be revealed this year. The Japanese media (based on Toyota reports) pretty much always (this year) reported that it would be shown in 2021. The only time anyone said it would be reported in 2020 was a few years ago when the first news of the new model came about. In fact the Japanese media reported a full schedule of all model changes...LC300 was 2021 (reveal)...the Alphard a 2022 reveal, Prado around the same time (sorry cannot remember)

[Kavvz]

Bravo! Bravo Toyota! ?.  The thing needs a better name but other than that, I like the direction this whole hypercar thing is going:

Toyota is pushing ahead with the development of its first series-production hybrid hypercar, the GR Super Sport.

"Set to join the likes of the 708kW Ferrari LaFerrari, 673kW McLaren P1 and 652kW Porsche 918 Spyder in the hybrid hypercar segment, the GR Super Sport isn’t quite what you think.

Unlike the Holy Trinity, the GR Super Sport was designed as a race car from the outset, with it to compete in the FIA World Endurance Championship’s new Le Mans Hypercar (LMH) class from next year."

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-takes-on-ferrari-laferrari-mclaren-p1-and-porsche-918-spyder-with-its-own-hybrid

Edited September 22, 2020 by Kavvz

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Bravo! Bravo Toyota! ?.  The thing needs a better name but other than that, I like the direction this whole hypercar thing is going:

Toyota is pushing ahead with the development of its first series-production hybrid hypercar, the GR Super Sport.

"Set to join the likes of the 708kW Ferrari LaFerrari, 673kW McLaren P1 and 652kW Porsche 918 Spyder in the hybrid hypercar segment, the GR Super Sport isn’t quite what you think.

Unlike the Holy Trinity, the GR Super Sport was designed as a race car from the outset, with it to compete in the FIA World Endurance Championship’s new Le Mans Hypercar (LMH) class from next year."

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-takes-on-ferrari-laferrari-mclaren-p1-and-porsche-918-spyder-with-its-own-hybrid

Ooh yes....and that is based on the TS050 which has some serious race cred. 

As much as I enjoy seeing Toyota go complete bonkers with their product dev...what I really do not like is that they are leaving a wake of destruction for other manufacturers in Japan (not by competition but by starving them of resources).

Also...the GR Super Sport will be the first ever Halo car to carry the Toyota badge and be developed by Toyota! 

Okay..their first Halo car was the 2000GT but that was developed by Yamaha (and a rejected Nissan )..no the Supra was not a halo car EVER as that borrowed parts from every other Toyota. The LFA was theirs but it was a Lexus and not a Toyota  

[Gummybr]

4 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Bravo! Bravo Toyota! ?.  The thing needs a better name but other than that, I like the direction this whole hypercar thing is going:

Toyota is pushing ahead with the development of its first series-production hybrid hypercar, the GR Super Sport.

"Set to join the likes of the 708kW Ferrari LaFerrari, 673kW McLaren P1 and 652kW Porsche 918 Spyder in the hybrid hypercar segment, the GR Super Sport isn’t quite what you think.

Unlike the Holy Trinity, the GR Super Sport was designed as a race car from the outset, with it to compete in the FIA World Endurance Championship’s new Le Mans Hypercar (LMH) class from next year."

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-takes-on-ferrari-laferrari-mclaren-p1-and-porsche-918-spyder-with-its-own-hybrid

Reminds of a certain Nissan R390 may not have had the power of the modern day hyper cars but  fine piece of machinery.

[Kavvz]

32 minutes ago, iRage said:

..no the Supra was not a halo car EVER as that borrowed parts from every other Toyota.

Agree with everything except for the Supra part...! I didn't know the Supra was a skunk works project, that's kinda cool...But IMO the Supra did end up being a Halo car for the Toyota (for decades really) as it lifted up the brand, it was class leading, and everyone wanted one! 

I mean even now I can't think of anyone who posts here regularly who wouldn't jump for joy if they got their hands on one!

(I kinda even like the new one (looks awesome, and apparently drives nice) even though its mostly a tuned BMW with some awesome Jap styling Nothing wrong with BMW btw, just saying its not really 100% Toyota) 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Kavvz

[Kavvz]

5 minutes ago, Gummybr said:

Reminds of a certain Nissan R390 may not have had the power of the modern day hyper cars but  fine piece of machinery.

Wow! What a read...I'll have to Google up some more backstory on that: Thanks @Gummybr! 

(The R390 sounds like it was pretty amazing: I didn't know Nissan had anything so badass! Also kinda funny that it was the transmission that was the weak point- if it can be called one...) 

[iRage]

11 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

Agree with everything except for the Supra part...! I didn't know the Supra  was a skunk works project, but IMO it did end up being a Halo car for Toyota ( for decades really...) I mean even now I can't think of anyone who posts here regularly who wouldn't jump for joy if they got their hands on one....I kinda even like the new one (looks awesome, and apparently drives nice...) even though its mostly a tuned BMW with some awesome Jap style (Nothing wrong with BMW btw, just saying its not really 100% Toyota) 

Nope....still not a Halo car...a Halo car is a car that a manufacturer puts all its design and technological R&D efforts in to which subsequently trickles down in to the rest of the product line up. Like with Honda, the NSX was a halo car...all that R&D finally trickled down to their Civics and Accords and such. The Supra never did that. From the first gen to the Mark IV, the Supra what was used in other cars...predominantly the large and midsized sedans. In fact the 2JZ-GTE for which the Supra is venerated for never even went in to the Supra first...it went in to the Aristo. The first generation Supras were based on the Celica (Camry/Carina) platforms and even the Mark IV Supra was based on the Z30 Soarer platform (which was released in 1991 as opposed to the Mark IV's launch in 1993). So...it never was a HALO car. It was a flagship sports car...but not a halo car by definition. THe Supra was always based on already existing general technology.

Toyota never had a Halo car after the 2000GT. The GR Super Sport will be in sorts of a first after so many decades (not taking in to account the LFA here).