Fuel Efficiency Of Hybrid Vehicle

[dhanuFB15]

That was my point. Any car bought brand new/unregistered will depreciate in value and will be a loss the first owner will have to bear.

What I wanted to point out was that even if you buy a hybrid at a lower price point due to tax benefits, you might end up losing more money selling it compared to how much you would have lost if you bought a conventional car.

When buying a conventional car, we look at possible immediate repairs like timing belt replacement, suspension repairs etc. The sale price for a specific car would be negotiate based on these. With a hybrid, all these are still applicable and has the hybrid system specific repairs to consider, which would possibly drive the price down. (again, this is just an assumption based on what I feel is a logical trail of thought when buying a used car)

Yes second hand value of hybrid will effected first owner seriously , to recover that major lost he have to save more money by fuel pumping to hybrid, to maximum saving owner have to drive more.

Edited January 20, 2016 by dhanuFB15

[gayanath]

Dude,do your research by yourself before looking down on non-hybrid technologies. All European,US models of even japanese carmakers come with these new technologies as standard.Mazda Sky-activ,Ford-eco boost ,VW TDi, Mercedes CDI technologies are some examples..without these they cannot pass the strict emissions regulations like CARB or EURO6. Much more efficient and cleaner than your Noroccholai coal power plant using 50years old chinese technology to power the Nissan Leaves.

Now its easy to navigate. Yes they have done several improvements and innovations. But, Mazda-Sky-active (though its not only a engine improvement and its a combination of improvements in entire vehicle) could improve the fuel efficiency by 15% (this is not thermal efficiency and its the fuel efficiency improvement). Ford-eco boost too improves by same value 15%. VW TDi and Mercedes CDI technologies are also more or less same. Buying a hybrid is sometimes much better than a those because some systems are more complicated than hybrid. There are some small engines for small cars with higher miles per liter if we compare those with average car its just like compare a Alto and threewhealer.

In simple view, (actually I don't like this type simple calculation but its good for understanding) 1.8 L Allion will do 11 km/L average and 1.8 L Prius will do 18 km/l average. It's 63% improvement.

Please study regarding power and energy for better understanding about coal power plants and it's technology. You could visit norochcholei if you have any contact, (I think still the overhaul in-progress in one of three units) then you could learn a lot about its technology. General public is aware only what media says but not the reality.

Note: Though I tried to explain the technological improvements behind the system, I am not a hybrid fan.

Edited January 20, 2016 by gayanath

[RViji]

My father in laws 15 year old diesel A6 1.9 tdi gave me 15km/l in combined driving (highway and Rush hour traffic through borella) last time. It has no idle-stop,and is about 2times heavier than the Priass, much more comfortable and spacious.And my driving style is far from eco,more about closing the gap in front before any bike or tuktuk creeps through. How do you explain that?

[Magnum]

@Magnum I am thinking of turning to Diesel too.

Then you can talk about all that torque with your friends instead of fuel economy only

Jokes aside diesels do well on fuel when driving on open road, my Hiace sits happily at 1800rpm when doing about 100k/h with dual A/C

Edited January 21, 2016 by Magnum

[The Stig]

In simple view, (actually I don't like this type simple calculation but its good for understanding) 1.8 L Allion will do 11 km/L average and 1.8 L Prius will do 18 km/l average. It's 63% improvement.

What is the point of comparing a 1.8l atkinson cycle engine with a 1.8l ottoman cycle engine? While ignoring Hp, torque, weight, power to weight ratio of the car, drag etc?

[Kavvz]

My father in laws 15 year old diesel A6 1.9 tdi gave me 15km/l in combined driving (highway and Rush hour traffic through borella) last time. It has no idle-stop,and is about 2times heavier than the Priass, much more comfortable and spacious.And my driving style is far from eco,more about closing the gap in front before any bike or tuktuk creeps through. How do you explain that?

Your father in-law is a nutcase for letting you drive his car. You're probably revving the crap out of that poor diesel between shifts to put on those spurts of speed. Give me his number. I'm going to call him and :

1. Tell him that you shouldn't be driving his car anymore which is obviously in great mechanical condition despite its age if its returning that kind of efficiency despite your attempts to sabotage it!

2. Buy his car off him at the earliest opportunity

Edited January 21, 2016 by Kavvz

[Crosswind]

What is the point of comparing a 1.8l atkinson cycle engine with a 1.8l ottoman cycle engine? While ignoring Hp, torque, weight, power to weight ratio of the car, drag etc?

otto cycle bung!

[The Stig]

otto cycle bung!

Damn auto correct in the phone :s

[Goro]

Your "if it was not for the tax scheme..." hypothetical is pretty obvious. But the issue is your fantasy is just that, a fantasy. But at the same time your basis for buying "something else new" is a mechanical issue that was detected and sorted out in 4 days? (less if the 1st mechanic did the job correctly).

What's the "something else new" you propose? Micro Panda? An alto? Have you spoken to someone who's bought a Panda? I genuinely feel bad for them. Micro takes people's money and indefinitely delay delivery. And when inquired the customers are treated like dogs begging for leftover food scraps. And once they get their precious 'new' cars they can be assured to face door handles that break off, head/fog lights that stop working, rattling body parts, hand-brakes that jam after 3-4 days of idle, premature clutch replacements, premature fan replacements, and my favorite, ants eating rubber parts.

And you think the warranty on your 'something new' is great? Numerous owners' door handle started breaking off.. You would think that since its "ape dei" which is locally made they'd just swap it with a new one right? He was asked to goto a service centre report it, after with the center will write to HQ get approval issue the part after which the owner can go get the new part. All of which they estimate would take a few weeks. Doesn't the Allion issue you quoted sound like peanuts now?

Clearly all cars break down... So if I'm gonna goto a garage eventually, I prefer to drive a older nicer car than the "something new" you propose..

tl;dr mate, I didn't bother to read all.. anyways, It was a little typo in my post as well, I meant something "newer" instead of a decade old garbage. I know cars last longer than decades when you maintain correctly. But when you pay almost 3 million to buy something already crap and spend another million to fix it, buying a something newer or "something new" is much better idea. And a Panda? is that all you could remind when we talk about newer cars?

Obviously, I think everyone can clearly understand all cars break down, but they don't break down at the same time. That time it takes to break down , matters.

Just buy what you like, its your money after all. Just don't misguide people into buy garbage and suffer, as not all people are mechanics.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Goro

[Goro]

It is very simple.

People buy hybrids cause they are comparatively cheaper and newer.

You get a decent vehicle with comparatively higher number of bells & whistles.

And fuel wise the running cost is significantly lower.

Further in the crazy SL tax structure along with electrics that's the only type of vehicle with a reasonable tax rate (BY SL standards).

Any other reason is plain BS.

A real environmentally concerned person would be someone who would buy a Leaf and Install a Solar System with the money he would have spent on a hybrid.

Before i get blasted,I do drive a hybrid

Exactly!

[RViji]

CEO of Sun Microsystems:"electric cars are coal powered cars" Theres much more energy wastage in production of electric cars than a conventional car,some interesting facts and figures.

Bottom line seems to be "If you want to save the environment,dont buy a hybrid or electric,buy a bicycle.Also for your wife and kids" no point talking about hybrids,because they have the best( or worst) of Both pure electric and otto cycle worlds.

Edited February 12, 2016 by RViji

[BuBi]

tl;dr mate, I didn't bother to read all.. anyways, It was a little typo in my post as well, I meant something "newer" instead of a decade old garbage. I know cars last longer than decades when you maintain correctly. But when you pay almost 3 million to buy something already crap and spend another million to fix it, buying a something newer or "something new" is much better idea. And a Panda? is that all you could remind when we talk about newer cars?

Obviously, I think everyone can clearly understand all cars break down, but they don't break down at the same time. That time it takes to break down , matters.

Just buy what you like, its your money after all. Just don't misguide people into buy garbage and suffer, as not all people are mechanics.

Well old japs don't cost a million to repair them. It's a pretty big misconception.

And also people who owns cars should know about their vehicles and how to do simple tasks and repairs. If they don't. It's there fault. Not the car's.

[gayanath]

CEO of Sun Microsystems:"electric cars are coal powered cars" Theres much more energy wastage in production of electric cars than a conventional car,some interesting facts and figures.

Bottom line seems to be "If you want to save the environment,dont buy a hybrid or electric,buy a bicycle.Also for your wife and kids" no point talking about hybrids,because they have the best( or worst) of Both pure electric and otto cycle worlds.

If you go through the presentation,

for production of an Electric car - CO2 emission - 25,000 lbs ~ 12.5 tons

for a ordinary car - 16,000 lbs ~ 8 ton. which means 56% increase.

For life cycle calculation they use as the entire power comes from coal and still there is a 3 tons less CO2 emission for Electric cars in one category 5 tons less for another category. Its 8.8% and 10.2% saving respectively.

Electric car (considering total millage 90,000 usage in life) - 31 ton CO2 emission

Ordinary car (considering total millage 90,000 usage in life) - 34 ton CO2 emission

If the power comes from renewable and less CO2 emitting sources (nuclear, natural gas, hydro, etc,) the value could be far less.

Actually, their point is not the electric cars are more CO2 emitter, but the given concessions in the US for electric cars are not worth for the saving in CO2 footprint.

For Hybrids, the capacity of battery is far less (24 kWh vs 1.5kWh means 6.5% comparing electric car battery) so lithium consumption is far less than electric car. So CO2 emission for manufacturing the hybrid battery is much lesser than above extra CO2 emitting value for manufacturing.

So your bottom line has neither proved not concluded.

However, if somebody proves technically, that the hybrid cars are higher CO2 emitter than ordinary car, then we have to accept. No doubt.

Edited February 14, 2016 by gayanath

[lesru]

When it come to tourism field which is best ? Hybrid or non Hybrid ?

[sathyajithj99]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="lesru" data-cid="289338" data-time="1455538599"><p>

When it come to tourism field which is best ? Hybrid or non Hybrid ? </p></blockquote>

<br />

It's Micro Geely MX7s

Edited February 15, 2016 by sathyajithj99

[RViji]

Lot of "IF"s .the concessions given in Sri lanka for rlectric cars is much higher than US.about 20000$. So Gayanath,you saying our electricity production is greener than the USA?

[gayanath]

Lot of "IF"s .the concessions given in Sri lanka for rlectric cars is much higher than US.about 20000$. So Gayanath,you saying our electricity production is greener than the USA?

No. its not. My point is they have assumed "electricity comes from coal" for their calculations and still the CO2 emission is less in the life cycle. But actually, the entire electricity demand is not supplying from coal. Its a combination of several sources including renewable and lesser CO2 emission. Please see below comparison for year 2014. This will explain the scenario well.

Year 2014

Sri Lanka - Hydro 36.7%, Fuel oil 34.8%, Coal 25.9%, Other renewable 2.6%,

USA - Coal 38.8%, Natural gas 27.4%, Nuclear 19.5%, Other renewable 13.2%, Other 1.1%

Though I am positive for introduction of EV's, I too not agreed about the given amount of concession. But if we didn't give that much concession, we cannot popular electric vehicles due to various other factors (our attitudes, the way we consider about the society & environment, the way we calculate RR, etc.). Therefore, giving higher concession first and reduce it gradually withing 5 - 10 years is more practical.

Edited February 16, 2016 by gayanath

[RViji]

1.this study does NOT assume all electricity comes from coal. It assumes 65% comes from fossil fuels(min4:28).

2.According to your dubious statistics even Sri Lanka has 60% from fossil fuels vs.USA 65% fossil fuels.USA 27% of this is natural gas,which is greener than burning fuel oil in Sri Lanka.

3. After the new phase of norocchalai plant in 2015,i am sure coal % has increased.

So mate,NO. our mix is not greener than USA,which has been base for this study.nuclear is 100% green,if considering only CO2 emissions.

4.hybrud batteries do Not contain liyhium,they use Ni,Cd which can storre less energy.Although weight is similar,so the environment damage ftom mining is similar.

[gayanath]

1.this study does NOT assume all electricity comes from coal. It assumes 65% comes from fossil fuels(min4:28).

65% coming while they are talking energy balance, but what I got is just before CO2 emission calculation (min 1.23) they are telling "Electric cars are coal powered cars". So assume they have used 100% coal for calculation. I don't know whether who is correct.

2.According to your dubious statistics even Sri Lanka has 60% from fossil fuels vs.USA 65% fossil fuels.USA 27% of this is natural gas,which is greener than burning fuel oil in Sri Lanka.

Why dubious. Please go to CEB website for Sri lankan data. You could obtain everything cumulative up to 2014. You could even take daily data up to yesterday though. Go to wiki for US data.

3. After the new phase of norocchalai plant in 2015,i am sure coal % has increased.

So mate,NO. our mix is not greener than USA,which has been base for this study.nuclear is 100% green,if considering only CO2 emissions.

I didn't tell we are greener than USA. if you read again I told "No, Its not".

My point is both US and SL are greener than calculation assuming they have used 100% coal. If they use 65% coal for calculation, still both US and SL at the margin.

4.hybrud batteries do Not contain liyhium,they use Ni,Cd which can storre less energy.Although weight is similar,so the environment damage ftom mining is similar.

Yes, though the mining process is similar, you cannot compare CO2 emission values for a volume (or weight) of Ni mining with Lithium mining without proper data. Now Hybrid manufactures are also changing from Ni-Cd to Li-Ion (ex. Honda GP5). So better to compare apple to apple than apple to orange.

Edited February 16, 2016 by gayanath

[RViji]

Min1:23 is the statement by reputed CEO of sun microsystems,who invented Java(if you are an Engineer as you claim,you should know about Java) Nothing to do with this Study.