honda Honda Grace Gearbox question

[Coolthara]

Hi..I saw some comments on the fuel consumption of Grace.

I jst want to share my experience on that.

Usually I drive towards Kandy from kegalle and car indicates consumption around 23km per litre.
Since, I have to go through kadugannawa I think its ok.

But recently I did drive towards Anuradhapure, and car indicated ,29km per litre.

Hence, I think Grace is doing well

[Buddhigayan]

Knocking sounds vibrations. Nature of dual clutch gear box.

It's a manual gearbox with electronically shifting. User can use paddle shifters for manually select gears according to his pleasure.

Sometimes when it's on auto mode if throttle press hard car will take smaller time to adjust gears for higher torque. This delay can noticeable.

[RKTS]

On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 6:33 PM, Coolthara said:

Hi..I saw some comments on the fuel consumption of Grace.

I jst want to share my experience on that.

Usually I drive towards Kandy from kegalle and car indicates consumption around 23km per litre.
Since, I have to go through kadugannawa I think its ok.

But recently I did drive towards Anuradhapure, and car indicated ,29km per litre.

Hence, I think Grace is doing well

Are you sure this fuel consumption? Me too use a Grace and it never go above 19 when going through Kadugannawa. 

[Lakshmanwedi]

I have a Honda Grace 2015. It has done only 30000 KM. When I stop in traffic on small uphills, the moves back slowly. I need to apply handbrake to get it moving forward without letting it mov eback.

What can cause this issue? Can it be the time to change gear oil?

Appreciate for your advice.

 

[Davy]

59 minutes ago, Lakshmanwedi said:

I have a Honda Grace 2015. It has done only 30000 KM. When I stop in traffic on small uphills, the moves back slowly. I need to apply handbrake to get it moving forward without letting it mov eback.

What can cause this issue? Can it be the time to change gear oil?

Appreciate for your advice.

 

Is this the Grace that comes with dual clutch transmission? Also, why do you need to apply the handbrake? Can't you simply keep your foot on the brake pedal?

[trex]

4 hours ago, Lakshmanwedi said:

I have a Honda Grace 2015. It has done only 30000 KM. When I stop in traffic on small uphills, the moves back slowly. I need to apply handbrake to get it moving forward without letting it mov eback.

What can cause this issue? Can it be the time to change gear oil?

Appreciate for your advice.

 

Use your hill start assist (basically, push the break pedal hard for few seconds & car will hold breaks for 3-4 seconds - enough time to get you going).

Also, do not use the handbreak for this purpose - If you miss time by even a small amount, you can end up either breaking the handbreak cable or damage the tires)

This has nothing to do with your transmission. (Anyway, if you are moving backwards do not press accelerator hard. come to a complete step before pressing accelerator - I'd imagine, you could do lot of damage accelerating while moving back)

[JanakaAnu]

On 4/9/2018 at 12:28 PM, Lakshmanwedi said:

I have a Honda Grace 2015. It has done only 30000 KM. When I stop in traffic on small uphills, the moves back slowly. I need to apply handbrake to get it moving forward without letting it mov eback.

What can cause this issue? Can it be the time to change gear oil?

Appreciate for your advice.

 

Better check clutch oil first if you haven't change it regularly.

[rajithanw]

There were few problems and facts i needed to comment. 

 

I have been researching about this DCT thing and also driven one of my friends. Also awaiting my new grace to arrive in few weeks. 

In SL there is a known fault of DCTs, even in 2017/18 models to a lesser extent (May be because they are still new) To minimize this problems most honda techs and stafford recommend DCT oil change in every 10000km which cosg about 3000/=. Also avoiding crawling, minjmizing gear shifts (recommend use of S mode in heavy traffic to avoid frequent gear changes), avoiding of launching the car would increase the longavity of the transmission. 

Crawling back in a hill is normal thing. Either use handbrakes or press gas while on brakes from your left foot and quickly release the brakes. (Dont keep reviewing for longer than a second or two while on brakes which make the clutch wear quicker) 

My friend told he has had 28kmpl from Dambulla to Kaduwela during peak hour. And his average i saw as 18.**. Also he has no reason to lie. 

Pickup was ok (better than my previous FD1) Didn't notice any significant gear lag. But that rev matching when down shifting was horrible to hear. 

Had good interior space (bit longer leg space and narrower than FD1) 

[ajm]

 

1 hour ago, rajithanw said:

Also avoiding crawling, minjmizing gear shifts , avoiding of launching the car

in other words,dont drive in Sri Lanka.

looks like some marketing gimmick to sell DCT transmission Hondas stuck in car sales?

[TheFlyingFox]

10 hours ago, rajithanw said:

 

In SL there is a known fault of DCTs, even in 2017/18 models to a lesser extent (May be because they are still new) To minimize this problems most honda techs and stafford recommend DCT oil change in every 10000km which cosg about 3000/=. Also avoiding crawling, minjmizing gear shifts (recommend use of S mode in heavy traffic to avoid frequent gear changes), avoiding of launching the car would increase the longavity of the transmission. 

My friend told he has had 28kmpl from Dambulla to Kaduwela during peak hour. And his average i saw as 18.**. Also he has no reason to lie. 

Mate, I don't know why you even ordered a Grace knowing all this 

Good Luck!

 

9 hours ago, ajm said:

 

in other words,dont drive in Sri Lanka.

looks like some marketing gimmick to sell DCT transmission Hondas stuck in car sales?

?

 

[Quiet]

i dont think grace does 28Kmpl unless you go down hill. 18Kmpl is realistic figure on long runs

[rajithanw]

12 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Mate, I don't know why you even ordered a Grace knowing all this 

Good Luck!

 

?

 

Because I had a permit and needed maximum benefit without spending more money than my sold FD1. And my options were Grace, Vezel, Axio hybrid, Civic 1.0T, Audi A1, Vitz, CHR, Swift Turbo. 

I need lot of leg room as im 6 feet tall. So Vitz, A1, Swift were out. Didn't like crossovers so CHR and Vezel was out. And i drove a Axio and it was boring like hell. And interior was compact and cheap looking. 

Thought a lot about Civic hatch and Grace. Did some math about fuel consumption over 5 years, and estimated the depreciation of the vehicle in 5 years, performance figures like handling, acceleration etc. And winner was the Grace. I knew about these issues by then also (I'm a honda guy anyway so i kinda into these techs and faults of many honda vehicles).

 

I still feel that i should've chosen the civic but grace gives higher performance than 1.0T civic. 

Yeah i knew what i was doing

DCT issue was lesser in the grace than vezel. May be because Grace was lesser tuned and has lesser weight than his big brother. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by rajithanw

[TheFlyingFox]

12 minutes ago, rajithanw said:

I still feel that i should've chosen the civic but grace gives higher performance than 1.0T civic. 

 

You have already ordered the car. Don't have second thoughts , enjoy and love it. 

 

For the record , the Grace will be faster in a drag race, which I doubt very much you will do. When you push the Civic into a corner it is on another league , specially with the model which has adaptive suspension. 

[rajithanw]

On 9/6/2017 at 1:00 PM, RKTS said:

I do not know it is Ok with the admin to publish the names. It is a place near Kettharama cricket stadium. PM me if you need the exact name of the place.

I really don't have any idea about the consequences of changing gears from D to N frequently in traffic. Hope an expert in this forum will help.

For me it is little difficult to shift the smaller gearlever to N often. 

What I do  (switch off Econ mode) is Ok with me to have a better run in traffic and hills with minimum jerk ,normally these duel clutch drives have. 

I do not think much about fuel economy. But apply light throttle and avoid heavy breaking. Use cruise control in highways and specially keep a good tire pressure and clean air filter. Use 95 octane. My car does average 19 to 22 and it is Ok with me.

Please note : I am not an expert on this. LOL

I don't know why Stafford instructed you to put the ar to N because it will disconnect the gear feom the engine which will prevent the charging (Not sure though but it was the case in Toyota hybrids) And clutch will to totally disengaged when you are on still in traffic in D mode. So no clutch wear. 

Using Sport mode will keep the car in the same low gear longer so lesser gear shifts mae the clutch last longer. 

[rajithanw]

9 minutes ago, TheFlyingFox said:

You have already ordered the car. Don't have second thoughts , enjoy and love it. 

 

For the record , the Grace will be faster in a drag race, which I doubt very much you will do. When you push the Civic into a corner it is on another league , specially with the model which has adaptive suspension. 

Straight line acceleration is important to overtake long vehicles. With padle shifters i can pre select a lower gear before overtaking manoeuvre will eliminate that gear lag most of others talking about. 

I do drag like acceleration if im the 1st one in te color light ???

[TheFlyingFox]

8 hours ago, rajithanw said:

Straight line acceleration is important to overtake long vehicles. With padle shifters i can pre select a lower gear before overtaking manoeuvre will eliminate that gear lag most of others talking about. 

I do drag like acceleration if im the 1st one in te color light ???

Macho your logic doesn't make sense. There is virtually no gearlag even if the car downshifts for you in a DCT. Even the Civic has paddle shifters albeit artificial shift points in that CVT to do the same thing (pre select lower gear before overtaking) . Also don't forget that unlike those days, turbo lag is minimal in today's cars. 

 

Good for you if you like drag races at the lights ?. The Grace will be faster by quite a decent margin ( ~2 seconds faster to reach 100)

Edited November 1, 2018 by TheFlyingFox

[rajithanw]

On 11/1/2018 at 8:02 AM, TheFlyingFox said:

Macho your logic doesn't make sense. There is virtually no gearlag even if the car downshifts for you in a DCT. Even the Civic has paddle shifters albeit artificial shift points in that CVT to do the same thing (pre select lower gear before overtaking) . Also don't forget that unlike those days, turbo lag is minimal in today's cars. 

 

Good for you if you like drag races at the lights ?. The Grace will be faster by quite a decent margin ( ~2 seconds faster to reach 100)

Machan, i have no much experience in driving a honda DCT but surely i felt a delay in kick down sequence in a vezel. as in every automatics. So i used to prwle select the gear by myself in my FD before overtaking. 

DCTs usually preselect the higher gear unless you are slowing down the car. Sudden acceleration mean car doesn't expect it and it has to select 1 or 2 lower gears. I dont know if it programmed to skip gears (eg if it was in 4th gear and you press the gas hard, the car think the best gear for the hard acceleration is 2nd which is in the same gear shaft as 4th in DCT. So either car need to disengage the clutch select 2nd and engage again, or select 3rd on other shaft, switch the clutch, select 2nd and switch again. Im not sure which one car does) 

[TheFlyingFox]

2 hours ago, rajithanw said:

Machan, i have no much experience in driving a honda DCT but surely i felt a delay in kick down sequence in a vezel. as in every automatics. So i used to prwle select the gear by myself in my FD before overtaking. 

DCTs usually preselect the higher gear unless you are slowing down the car. Sudden acceleration mean car doesn't expect it and it has to select 1 or 2 lower gears. I dont know if it programmed to skip gears (eg if it was in 4th gear and you press the gas hard, the car think the best gear for the hard acceleration is 2nd which is in the same gear shaft as 4th in DCT. So either car need to disengage the clutch select 2nd and engage again, or select 3rd on other shaft, switch the clutch, select 2nd and switch again. Im not sure which one car does) 

DCT - It has two clutches. 

When your driving one clutch is engaged and the other is already spinning to select a gear. When it is on 5th for example, if you floor it the second clutch will select a gear intelligently within milliseconds. 

 

What your saying is correct in conventional autos. Touque converter / automated manuals. Even CVTs are a lot slower than DCTs 

 

@iRage if you could explain further 

Edited November 6, 2018 by TheFlyingFox

[rajithanw]

1 hour ago, TheFlyingFox said:

DCT - It has two clutches. 

When your driving one clutch is engaged and the other is already spinning to select a gear. When it is on 5th for example, if you floor it the second clutch will select a gear intelligently within milliseconds. 

 

What your saying is correct in conventional autos. Touque converter / automated manuals. Even CVTs are a lot slower than DCTs 

 

@iRage if you could explain further 

Next gear is selected, wheels are engaged and freely spinning with the other clutch. Yes clutches do switch within milliseconds, but to engage a gear wheel take more than miliseconds.

During acceleration, tranny need to upshift from 1st to 2nd and so on. So at the start, 1st will be engaged and 2nd will be ready with the wheel engaged but freely spinning clutch plate. During shift 1st clutch will disengage and 2nd clutch will be in place within milliseconds. Am i correct? And during decelation vise versa. 

Delay happens when unexpected acceleration like when the upper gear is selected and tranny need to use the lower gear suddenly. It take time. 

[TheFlyingFox]

10 hours ago, rajithanw said:

Next gear is selected, wheels are engaged and freely spinning with the other clutch. Yes clutches do switch within milliseconds, but to engage a gear wheel take more than miliseconds.

During acceleration, tranny need to upshift from 1st to 2nd and so on. So at the start, 1st will be engaged and 2nd will be ready with the wheel engaged but freely spinning clutch plate. During shift 1st clutch will disengage and 2nd clutch will be in place within milliseconds. Am i correct? And during decelation vise versa. 

Delay happens when unexpected acceleration like when the upper gear is selected and tranny need to use the lower gear suddenly. It take time. 

Correct .DCT has two clutches to handle even and uneven gears. Example , 1st gear is handled by one clutch and 4th is handled by the other. During unexpected acceleration , say your on 5th and you floor it, the computer selects the best gear depending on the load. If it senses the car needs 3rd gear it will take off the clutch and engane in 3rd. It doesn't have to go 5-4-3 like a conventional auto (someone correct me) which has a little delay. Even changing from 5th to 4th takes considerably (in gear change time terms) more time than a DCT. I don't know the technical know how to explain why that is , but I have driven the vezel, Grace and have owned a GP5. All of those cars have the same DCT gearbox. In all situations, normal driving conditions , unexpected flooring , uphill , downhill,g gearchangers were much faster than any type of "other" auto. Have driven a couple of Audi's with a DCT and they too have the same characteristics. Using paddle shifters will of course give you some spirited driving experience in a car like this. 

Edited November 7, 2018 by TheFlyingFox

[rajithanw]

5 hours ago, TheFlyingFox said:

Correct .DCT has two clutches to handle even and uneven gears. Example , 1st gear is handled by one clutch and 4th is handled by the other. During unexpected acceleration , say your on 5th and you floor it, the computer selects the best gear depending on the load. If it senses the car needs 3rd gear it will take off the clutch and engane in 3rd. It doesn't have to go 5-4-3 like a conventional auto (someone correct me) which has a little delay. Even changing from 5th to 4th takes considerably (in gear change time terms) more time than a DCT. I don't know the technical know how to explain why that is , but I have driven the vezel, Grace and have owned a GP5. All of those cars have the same DCT gearbox. In all situations, normal driving conditions , unexpected flooring , uphill , downhill,g gearchangers were much faster than any type of "other" auto. Have driven a couple of Audi's with a DCT and they too have the same characteristics. Using paddle shifters will of course give you some spirited driving experience in a car like this. 

It is faster than any other autos. Delay is comparative, because you are used to faster shifts and those faster delays do get noticed a lot. ??

I still remember when i was driving my old ES8 in S mode, someone provoked me and i needed quick acceleration in the middle of traffic to overtake, i felt the car takes forever to accelerate. That time i realized how those tiny things go noticed when needed the most. 

[virajn]

This discussion is very good to understand about dct. Seems like there is a difference in Honda dct system used with hybrid system. This is taken from Honda site.

"The extremely quiet, motor-only EV Drive mode is selected for frequent stop-start and low-speed cruising situations such as urban driving. The clutch disengages the engine to reduce friction, realizing a highly efficient EV drive.

For acceleration the Hybrid Drive mode is selected, engaging the clutch and starting the engine. By combining power from both the engine and motor, the Hybrid Drive mode provides a powerful drive.

For high-speed cruising the Engine Drive mode is selected, maximizing efficient use of the engine.

The SPORT HYBRID i-DCD determines the most efficient mode not only for fuel economy and power, but for battery recharging. The clutch disengages the engine during deceleration to efficiently convert kinetic energy to electricity."

This is the source

https://world.honda.com/Fit-Jazz/hybrid/page03.html

According to this information only need to worry about clutch when not running even mode at very low speed.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by virajn

[Sabe]

Hi, my Honda Grace 2015, which I'm having since 2015 September and now has done 90250 km. Today, while I tried to shift to reverse gear, the reverse did not engage at all and reverse light too did not light up. It was stuck at N. After some time, it started working normally but I am worried. Anyone has any clue on what is the issue and what I can do for this?

[AVANTE]

27 minutes ago, Sabe said:

Hi, my Honda Grace 2015, which I'm having since 2015 September and now has done 90250 km. Today, while I tried to shift to reverse gear, the reverse did not engage at all and reverse light too did not light up. It was stuck at N. After some time, it started working normally but I am worried. Anyone has any clue on what is the issue and what I can do for this?

Without a scan, can't conclude anything for sure. These cars are complex and computerized, you could be facing a simple software issue or maybe something mechanically related. Have you maintained the DCT oil in time? 

[Dee Jay]

6 hours ago, Sabe said:

Hi, my Honda Grace 2015, which I'm having since 2015 September and now has done 90250 km. Today, while I tried to shift to reverse gear, the reverse did not engage at all and reverse light too did not light up. It was stuck at N. After some time, it started working normally but I am worried. Anyone has any clue on what is the issue and what I can do for this?

Was there any error message displayed in the information screen while this scenario happened?

Some have faced similar scenarios because of the famous dual clutch overheating issue or sometimes due to low battery level in hybrid battery at the given time (once the battery charges to an acceptable level vehicle would move as usual). So, if you noticed the message could have determined why this happened (could be due to one of the above reasons or a completely different reason altogether).

So as @AVANTE mentioned get a scan done to be on the safer side. If this is an actual issue the car would have the error in the memory.