## Post Whoring - Part 3 ##

[iRage]

2 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Those highway patrol Lancers must be hitting 300,000kms for sure.

If you look at the history they have always had Nissan Patrol (27sri), Land Cruisers, J36, Land Rovers and then the Pajero's. With the Saarc agreements and due to politicians looking at cost cutting they started getting the Tata's (Sumo, 207 & cars) and Mahindra's. There is no way a Japanese vehicle can be successful in a tender against the Indian vehicles. I have sat at Police tenders during my time at Land Rover and seen how badly the Japanese fared against the Indian pricing which were like US$ 11,500 against a Land Cruiser at around Yen 2,800,000. One of the biggest moments from my tender days was the fact that I could break the Land Cruiser market in 2007 where I sold 3 Defender troop carriers.

The STF and Army tenders were always made to the Land Rover spec as they wanted the Defender no matter what, until they started using the Mahindra and Tata single cabs to do the work of the Defenders.

Lets face it these Land Cruisers have come as donations, the Lancers and the Highway patrol vehicles were specified in the tenders to have a certain engine capacity and top speed, if not for that we would still see some Tata 207 cabs and Tata cars doing those duties.

That was my gut instinct too...even the Corollas were donations from Pakistan. But I was hoping that by some miracle they had gotten in to their senses to set proper specs for a tender.

The problem with public procurement is that if the institutional standards are low (which tanslates to to very loose specs in the tender)then you get all kinds of junk. Theoretically public pocuement dictates that the most financially competitive bid that meets all minimal technical and functional requirements would win; this does not mean the lowest priced bid would or should automatically win. But in SL our monkeys just go for the cheapest bid...we have had to fight with governments (Sri Lanka and others) on our project funded pocurements where they automatically picked the cheapest bid. Yes....the game of tightening down the specs to a very fine tooth comb to avoid any possibilities of not getting what we want as well as to avoid scrutiny is a global thing. Sadly it is a necessary evil. I have spent hours upon hours going over catalogs upon catalogs looking for that single spec that sets what we want from what the competitors could bid for (obviously before publishing it I had to justify it in front of a procurement tech committee...done it for IT equipment to pick up trucks  

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by iRage

[Kavvz]

 

Quote

There is no way a Japanese vehicle can be successful in a tender against the Indian vehicles.

But when the total cost of ownership is considered don't those Jap vehicles kick ass? I still see some of those 65- old troop carriers from like 15 years ago still in service. (But alot of those newish Mahindra / Tata jeeps from 5-6 yrs ago are sidelined aren't they?)

Quote

One of the biggest moments from my tender days was the fact that I could break the Land Cruiser market in 2007 where I sold 3 Defender troop carriers.

lol at the thought of @Gummybr at the start of his career... his 'tender' days in the industry! (Pun intended! 😆) - But then again, I still have my first work ID badge and I looked like one of those guys who come knocking on your door to sell brooms and stuff, so....!!! ) 

Also were these Defender sales made to the Police? Or the Army? (Heard on the grapevine that the Army buys about 10-15 vehicles a year? Is that the case? Not a bad contract to land...)

Quote

The STF and Army tenders were always made to the Land Rover spec as they wanted the Defender no matter what, until they started using the Mahindra and Tata single cabs to do the work of the Defenders.

What are they buying these days?

(I see a lot of high-ranking Military off-spring driving Jeep Wranglers around these days- And I assume these are 'subsidized' purchases in lieu of supply contracts?)

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kavvz

[Kavvz]

7 hours ago, iRage said:

I have spent hours upon hours going over catalogs upon catalogs looking for that single spec that sets what we want from what the competitors could bid 

 Don't know about what your requirements are but if @kmeeg is ever a project manager / director of procurement on one of those projects he'll be specifying: 'Naturally aspirated 4.0-liter V6, body-on-frame architecture, Crawl Control, Multi-terrain Select, Active Traction Control, Rear E-Locker, and for that final bit of exclusivity: 'Must include rear lift gate system Power Window' and bang! Just like that; everything else gets excluded from the tender!! 

😆 🤣 😂 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Kavvz

[Magnum]

[iRage]

4 hours ago, Kavvz said:

But when the total cost of ownership is considered don't those Jap vehicles kick ass? I still see some of those 65- old troop carriers from like 15 years ago still in service. (But alot of those newish Mahindra / Tata jeeps from 5-6 yrs ago are sidelined aren't they?)

Sadly procurement does not wok that way. The procurement only looks at technical and functional (includng service) specifications. If you want Wotal COst of Ownership factoed in then it needs to be translated in to a functional or service specification.

Eg 1. : . Provision of 4WD pickup vehicle with X years of service...then break down the service requirements and ask for costs per service and AMCs.. Service life of 10 years
Eg 2. .or something like fuel efficiency of X kmpl ..where that is worked out based on the fuel cost per km you are willing to bare.)

4 hours ago, Kavvz said:

'Naturally aspirated 4.0-liter V6, body-on-frame architecture, Crawl Control, Multi-terrain Select, Active Traction Control, Rear E-Locker, and for that final bit of exclusivity: 'Must include rear lift gate system Power Window'

Nope...stating that would get the spec kicked out even before the tender goes out as you are outwardly favoring sole sourcing with no clea and proper justification. The proper way to go about it is:

'Naturally aspirated 4.0-liter V6, body-on-frame architecture, Crawl Control, Multi-terrain Select, Active Traction Control, Rear E-Locker OR EQUIVELANT

'Must include rear lift gate system Power Window' OR EQUIVELANT OPERATIONAL FUNCTIONALITY

5 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Also were these Defender sales made to the Police? Or the Army? (Heard on the grapevine that the Army buys about 10-15 vehicles a year? Is that the case? Not a bad contract to land...)

Now that the good old British field tractor is gone, and replaced by a modern utility vehicle; what are they buying these days ? The only old school equivelant would be the 70 series LC noh ?

 

[iRage]

14 hours ago, Gummybr said:

Lets face it these Land Cruisers have come as donations,

There we have it...

The vehicles are courtesy of the People of Japan to assist counter-terrorism. Surprising noh ? Considering how our government screwed up the LRT and a few other projects. Not many countries in the world would do that (definitely not the Empire we bow too...they totally screwed up some African countries for abandoning their projects)

http://www.colombopage.com/archive_21A/Feb16_1613490156CH.php

[Kavvz]

1 hour ago, iRage said:

Now that the good old British field tractor is gone, and replaced by a modern utility vehicle; what are they buying these days ? The only old school equivelant would be the 70 series LC noh ?

Haven't seen many new 70 series LC's in the Army though...

[iRage]

49 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

Haven't seen many new 70 series LC's in the Army though...

Right..but what DO they buy now ? Or don't they need to buy that many anymore ?

[Kavvz]

37 minutes ago, iRage said:

Right..but what DO they buy now ? Or don't they need to buy that many anymore ?

 @Gummybr any clue? 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Kavvz

[Gummybr]

4 hours ago, iRage said:

 

Now that the good old British field tractor is gone, and replaced by a modern utility vehicle; what are they buying these days ? The only old school equivelant would be the 70 series LC noh ?

 

Army is now using Mahindra Bolero Single Cabs with the rear canopy.

 

Tried the Jeep J8, but it was too expensive.

What Land Rover had over the Toyota was the soft top long wheel base troop carrier, army and STF wanted the soft top whereas the Police wanted the hardtop.

@Kavvz Sri Lanka procurement works in a different way, the cheeper the product they buy, cost of ownership for them is not a matter. You compare a 35,000 dollar vehicle vs a 11,000 dollar vehicle.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Gummybr

[Kavvz]

52 minutes ago, Gummybr said:

@Kavvz Sri Lanka procurement works in a different way, the cheeper the product they buy, cost of ownership for them is not a matter. You compare a 35,000 dollar vehicle vs a 11,000 dollar vehicle.

Fascinating! Especially since it's so obvious that the Japanese vehicles have better longevity and are more dependable...

[iRage]

11 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

Fascinating! Especially since it's so obvious that the Japanese vehicles have better longevity and are more dependable...

Again....pubic procurement does not work that way...if you want longevity...then it needs to be translated in to a functional requirement that can be measured. Sadly..longevity cannot be translated and measued as such as it is extremely speculative and argumentative.

1 hour ago, Gummybr said:

Army is now using Mahindra Bolero Single Cabs with the rear canopy.

 oh how we have fallen.

1 hour ago, Gummybr said:

What Land Rover had over the Toyota was the soft top long wheel base troop carrier, army and STF wanted the soft top

Right...never realised that the LC70 did not have one  officially  until now. You do get LC70s long and shortwheel based ones...quite a common site in Africa where they use them as Safari vehicles. Howeve, these are customized by Toyota licensed fabricators. No idea what the cost factor would be,

1 hour ago, Gummybr said:

Sri Lanka procurement works in a different way, the cheeper the product they buy, cost of ownership for them is not a matter

Sadly yes...and many other countries...it is because either they misundersand the process or they are so cash strapped they tend to be penny wise and pound foolish...or try to skimp off on getting the proper equipment and save money so that they can spend it on fluff for themselves. Its a viscious cycle. This is one reason why when governments like Japan or even USA come in with donor funds they insist equipment need to be sourced from either their countries or preffered sources.

[kmeeg]

11 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Haven't seen many new 70 series LC's in the Army though...

LC70 should have been a better fit for the army than the Land rovers. Even these guys seems to love them.

[Kavvz]

15 minutes ago, kmeeg said:

LC70 should have been a better fit for the army than the Land rovers. Even these guys seems to love them.

Was thinking of these guys when we were talking about the Army buying Mahindra Bolero's, but didn't want to run our boys down so didn't bring it up!!

Thank goodness we don't have any active wars right now!! - May it stay that way too! 

 

[kmeeg]

18 minutes ago, Kavvz said:

Was thinking of these guys when we were talking about the Army buying Mahindra Bolero's, but didn't want to run our boys down so didn't bring it up!!

Thank goodness we don't have any active wars right now!! - May it stay that way too! 

 

Yep, I didn't even want to mention the name. Just wanted to tell about the LC70 and Hilux they use which would be the best choice for our boys. I mean give our boys the best tools for the job.

[iRage]

17 hours ago, kmeeg said:

Just wanted to tell about the LC70 and Hilux they use which would be the best choice for our boys. I mean give our boys the best tools for the job.

Isn't that the usual pattern though ? The true hard workers who are actually needed to keep the country running and can do something do not have the required tools/resources....whilst the slacking slobs get all the unnecessary fluff to keep their rear-ends warm and snug. 

[MrCat]

This made me giggle.. 

Aristo Vs M5 battle is awesome..

 

 

 

[MrCat]

Is 200 (Altezza) for sale...  Yes, that`s an actual V12 swap..!   

 

 

 

 

 

[Kavvz]

10 hours ago, MrCat said:

Is 200 (Altezza) for sale...  Yes, that`s an actual V12 swap..!   

 

 

 

 

 

Oh MY! I was just saying how privileged you'd have to be todrive a Toyota V12 / own a Toyota Century. But THIS wow! Genius move (I love the Altezza interior) !! - Best of BOTH worlds. Amazing! 

[MrCat]

10 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Oh MY! I was just saying how privileged you'd have to be todrive a Toyota V12 / own a Toyota Century. But THIS wow! Genius move (I love the Altezza interior) !! - Best of BOTH worlds. Amazing! 

Yeah, would like to go and see it but dont want to waste the sellers time with no intention of buying.. 

This guy seems to be building Is200's for some reason, had a 1UZ swapped one for sale as well...  😁

[Magnum]

 

 

[Gummybr]

14 hours ago, Magnum said:

 

 

From James Bond movie For Your Eyes Only

[Magnum]

19 hours ago, Gummybr said:

From James Bond movie For Your Eyes Only

One of my favourite scenes from James Bond movies! Mainly because there are 504s involved in the chase 😍

[Magnum]

@kmeeg

[Magnum]

That turbo whine ❤️