Toyota C-HR - Problem in Fuel Injectors (GDI)

[gayanath]

Since this is a very straight forward matter rather than going with general C-HR related topics, thought to open a new thread. 

One of my friend's C-HR (YOM 2018, millage 27,XXX km as of now and imported as 0 millage) had a fuel mis few days before with check engine and below warning messages "Check Engine. Visit your dealer" & "AWD System Malfuction. 2WD mode engaged. Visit your dealer". Vehicle is drivable but in low power mode only. He visited TL and found that 2nd cylinder misfire with codes P030027, P030085, P030200, P160500. 

Learning outcomes:

1. As he has been informed, TL does not have the facility to test for GDI Fuel Injectors. He (my friend) then called to a test bench manufacture in the UK and then they gave him a contact of one of their customer in Sri Lanka. When the injectors were taken to the place and tested, the other three is injecting 50 ml and the No. 2 injector is injecting 40 ml (per unit time). After ultrasonic cleaning it was increased to 55 vs 45 respectively.

2. After mounting, the engine runs well for about 2 hours but again the problem is the same.

3. TL still has no spare parts (GDI injectors).

4. He saw three other vehicles there with the same problem. So this will be a common problem. According to TL, this problem is due to contaminated petrol but I have my doubts on that.

Edited August 2, 2020 by gayanath

[vag2]

Which fuel was he pumping? Regular or hi-octane?

[gayanath]

  On 8/1/2020 at 6:29 AM, vag2 said:

Which fuel was he pumping? Regular or hi-octane?

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He always use 95. 

[Dee Jay]

  On 8/1/2020 at 5:23 AM, gayanath said:

Since this is a very straight forward matter rather than going with general C-HR related topics, thought to open a new thread. 

One of my friend's C-HR (YOM 2018, millage 27,XXX km as of now and imported as 0 millage) had a fuel miss few days before with check engine and below warning messages "Check Engine. Visit your dealer" & "AWD System Malfuction. 2WD mode engaged. Visit your dealer". Vehicle is derivable but low power mode. He visited TL and found that 2nd cylinder misfire with codes P030027, P030085, P030200, P160500. 

Learning outcomes:

1. As he has been informed, TL does not have the facility to test for GDI Fuel Injectors. He (my friend) then called to a test bench manufacture in the UK and then they gave him a contact of one of their customer in Sri Lanka. When the injectors were taken to the place and tested, the other three is injecting 50 ml and the No. 2 injector is injecting 40 ml (per unit time). After ultrasonic cleaning it was increased to 55 vs 45 respectively.

2. After mounting, the engine runs well for about 2 hours but again the problem is the same.

3. TL still has no spare parts (GDI injectors).

4. He saw three other vehicles there with the same problem. So this will be a common problem. According to TL, this problem is due to contaminated petrol but I have my doubts on that.

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This seems to be a common issue with the CHR.. there were many members in the FB group that was affected by the same issue..

I read in some comments that Toyota Lanka charges around 70k to replace the injectors and it can be fixed outside around 55k. Don't know the validity of the comment as I have not personally observed this fixing.

Is the injectors out of stock at Toyota Lanka or they haven't brought it down yet at all? 

[RWD]

Manufacturing defect or not compatible with our bad fuel? Very unlike Toyotas to have such a major issue at such a low mileage. 

[ajm]

Toyota is a very late comer to use petrol direct injection from Denso. May be not their expertise.

Is the CHR also offered by Toyota agent?

[iRage]

  On 8/1/2020 at 8:52 AM, ajm said:

Toyota is a very late comer to use petrol direct injection from Denso. May be not their expertise.

Is the CHR also offered by Toyota agent?

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Not exactly...Mark Xs and Crowns have had DI for like ever and those have been running quite okay; even with SL fuel. Time to snoop around tomorrow and see if there are any local cases of it happening. I guess we do not have enough 1.2T Corollas around for it to be noticed in these vehicles. In a previous thread I did mention how the 1.2T engine has had carbon build up issues which could have effected injectors...but in this case if it happens within a few hours that is out.  Could it be that the filtration of the fuel is not sufficient and fuel impurities do get through ?

 

[matroska]

  On 8/1/2020 at 7:50 AM, RWD said:

Very unlike Toyotas to have such a major issue

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Well our perception on Toyota's are based on the 90's and early 2000's models such as the Corollas, Vitz's and GGG's (God's Greatest Gift) with relatively uncomplicated internals where little could go wrong. Maybe Toyota's modern vehicles are more in line with the other manufacturers specially when it comes to operating in local conditions. The CHR is probably one of the few "modern" Toyotas that came to the country in large numbers (the others are of course Vitze's and GGG's that still run on 2000's tech) 

[vag2]

  On 8/1/2020 at 1:29 PM, iRage said:

.Mark Xs and Crowns have had DI for like ever and those have been running quite okay; even with SL fuel

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They are a different league aren't they? Not exactly  the downsized engines with direct injection operating above 300bar that you get in the CHR etc, where the stress on the components must be higher.

[gayanath]

  On 8/1/2020 at 7:50 AM, RWD said:

Manufacturing defect or not compatible with our bad fuel?

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I have the same question in my mind.

[RWD]

  On 8/1/2020 at 9:14 PM, vag2 said:

They are a different league aren't they? Not exactly  the downsized engines with direct injection operating above 300bar that you get in the CHR etc, where the stress on the components must be higher.

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Also mark x and Crowns - atleast the first and second owners - were relative enthusiasts - as opposed to many CHR owners - and its widely in used for an A-B car by mainstreamers. No telling what corners have been cut on maintenance. 

[vitz]

Considering reasons like poor quality of fuel, poor storage facilities in fuel stations, lack of quality control in fuel stations,  etc....Toyota and Mitsubishi like manufacturers offer vehicles such as Toyota Rush, Mitsubishi Expander having the old school engine technology for our part of the world. They rarely offer troublesome new technologies......

Ultimately, we are the one should blamed for (not the manufacturer) using vehicles those are not meant for the use in countries like Sri Lanka. 

I am really wondering about the fate of Euros with high compression Turbo engines those are imported to Sri Lanka....Surely those will be treasures for repairing companies to earn money by ripping off customers..Already I noticed that a Joint in Pannipitiya tapping that treasure by repairing gray imports of 3008 and 5008.

[Hyaenidae]

  On 8/2/2020 at 5:24 AM, vitz said:

Considering reasons like poor quality of fuel, poor storage facilities in fuel stations, lack of quality control in fuel stations,  etc....Toyota and Mitsubishi like manufacturers offer vehicles such as Toyota Rush, Mitsubishi Expander having the old school engine technology for our part of the world. They rarely offer troublesome new technologies......

 

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I remember you mentioning a carbon buildup issue of your CHR/Eclipse Cross, did you get it looked at?

[vitz]

  On 8/2/2020 at 5:30 AM, Hyaenidae said:

I remember you mentioning a carbon buildup issue of your CHR/Eclipse Cross, did you get it looked at?

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Yes, compared to EC, the Carbon built up in the CHR is substantial. We have done already 37000 km in CHR but no warning lights yet.

But I feel the smoothness of the CHR engine is pretty inferior compared to the EC. I did not get a chance to compare that with another CHR.....

[Hyaenidae]

  On 8/2/2020 at 5:33 AM, vitz said:

Yes, compared to EC, the Carbon built up in the CHR is substantial. We have done already 37000 km in CHR but no warning lights yet.

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There should be no buildup in the tailpipe at all (I couldn't find the thread which you shared a pic) and if this is an inherent issue of the CHR I think it'd be better to get it inspected now, at the early stage... 

[vitz]

  On 8/2/2020 at 5:37 AM, Hyaenidae said:

There should be no buildup in the tailpipe at all (I couldn't find the thread which you shared a pic) and if this is an inherent issue of the CHR I think it'd be better to get it inspected now, at the early stage... 

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I agree. I should take it to TL soon. The problem is convincing precautionary measures to our better half is challenging :(.  They prefer to drive until a disaster struck....

Overenthusiasm on vehicles is not appreciated by everyone........ 

 

anyways the link for the post:

http://autolanka.com/forums/topic/22382-muffler-tail-pipe-carbon-chr-vs-eclipse-cross/?tab=comments#comment-331839

 

 

[hrm]

Saw similar posts in the FB group as well and one page related to a automotive garage posted that they have "fixed" the problem of rough idle and engine misfire on a 2017 C-HR. Apparently they had replaced the injectors but not sure whether those are meant for this car.

[iRage]

  On 8/1/2020 at 9:14 PM, vag2 said:

They are a different league aren't they? Not exactly  the downsized engines with direct injection operating above 300bar that you get in the CHR etc, where the stress on the components must be higher.

Expand  

Well..the point was that Toyota is NOT NEW to direct injection engines. I might have misunderstood your initial statement about Toyota being new to DI engines (I suppose you meant for small high compression engines). Still...this problem even with smaller engined cars I suppose cannot be just pinned to Toyota or other Japanese manufacturers. I reckon most of these issues were there even with Euros but they were owned by enthusiasts and/or maintained by the agents under warranty and proper care.

  On 8/2/2020 at 4:30 AM, RWD said:

Also mark x and Crowns - atleast the first and second owners - were relative enthusiasts - as opposed to many CHR owners - and its widely in used for an A-B car by mainstreamers. No telling what corners have been cut on maintenance.

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The Mark Xs maybe..but definitely not the Crowns...most of the Crowns you see in SL are ex politian onwed car or a diplomatic car...only a very few of the old Crowns are normal person imports (again due to the tax structure).

But even then....the argument does not hold. The Mark X and Crown are popular used vehicles in Africa. You see tons of them in the streets of Kenya, Malawi and Tanzania in varying degrees of condition and they do keep running even with the crappy fuel (like what we have). Peope still keep craving for it so it obviously has a good reliable reputation. So...even in the hands of non-enthusiasts the car does do quite well.

Having said that...like @vitz said....Toyota has not released the CHR in the SL market..probably they have concerns about fuel, etc...in markets like ours (in fact I cannot think of any emerging country market where the CHR is officially launched). But having said that...does anyone know what engine is offered in the new Corolla in Sri Lanka ? I am guessing it is the 1ZR engine which came with the previous models ? So again...the markets like our's still get the newer models with older tech.

Edited August 2, 2020 by iRage

[Dee Jay]

  On 8/2/2020 at 7:37 AM, iRage said:

But having said that...does anyone know what engine is offered in the new Corolla in Sri Lanka ?

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As I recall it had the 1.6 liter engine when it was launched here last year..

Same story in India as well where Honda launched Civic 10th generation with the 1.8 litre engine from the 8th gen with enormous ground clearance..

Edited August 2, 2020 by Dee Jay

[gayanath]

  On 8/1/2020 at 5:23 AM, gayanath said:

One of my friend's C-HR (YOM 2018, millage 27,XXX km as of now and imported as 0 millage) had a fuel mis few days before with check engine and below warning messages "Check Engine. Visit your dealer" & "AWD System Malfuction. 2WD mode engaged. Visit your dealer". Vehicle is drivable but in low power mode only. He visited TL and found that 2nd cylinder misfire with codes P030027, P030085, P030200, P160500. 

Learning outcomes:

1. As he has been informed, TL does not have the facility to test for GDI Fuel Injectors. He (my friend) then called to a test bench manufacture in the UK and then they gave him a contact of one of their customer in Sri Lanka. When the injectors were taken to the place and tested, the other three is injecting 50 ml and the No. 2 injector is injecting 40 ml (per unit time). After ultrasonic cleaning it was increased to 55 vs 45 respectively.

2. After mounting, the engine runs well for about 2 hours but again the problem is the same.

3. TL still has no spare parts (GDI injectors).

4. He saw three other vehicles there with the same problem. So this will be a common problem. According to TL, this problem is due to contaminated petrol but I have my doubts on that.

Expand  

Update:

Next, he immersed the injector in a solvent bath for about two days (tip only) and then cleaned the injector 3 times by ultrasonic cleaning. and tested with WD40 as well. No improvement in static flow rate (still 45 ml) but all other things were perfect(spay pattern in different modes, coil parameters, etc). He also cleaned the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tank, and applied injector cleaning additives to new fuels. The injectors were reinstalled last Sunday and has been running so far without any issues or errors up to now. 

 

[GayanR]

Toyota lanka is having a massive import delay these days.They even don't take any spare parts orders.

 

but amayama carries it.110 USD

https://www.amayama.com/en/part/toyota/2320939295

 

[CNX]

I read in a UK CHR forum that the cause is faulty ignition coils that have got contaminated during production. I'm not an expert though and cannot clarify further. 

[vitz]

  On 8/14/2020 at 8:52 AM, gayanath said:

Update:

Next, he immersed the injector in a solvent bath for about two days (tip only) and then cleaned the injector 3 times by ultrasonic cleaning. and tested with WD40 as well. No improvement in static flow rate (still 45 ml) but all other things were perfect(spay pattern in different modes, coil parameters, etc). He also cleaned the fuel filter, cleaned the fuel tank, and applied injector cleaning additives to new fuels. The injectors were reinstalled last Sunday and has been running so far without any issues or errors up to now. 

 

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Hope it would work. It looks that some garages have started the replacement at a cost of 70  - 80 k per injector. The real danger is the possible inflow of substandard injector from AlixxxxBxxx.

 

 

 

[gayanath]

Toyota Australia recommended Research Octane Number (RON) 95 or above for C-HR 

Toyota Japan recommends Unleaded Regular Gasoline for C-HR but octane number not mentioned. Their regular gasoline is 90 RON, right?

 

 

[iRage]

  On 8/15/2020 at 7:19 AM, gayanath said:

Toyota Australia recommended Research Octane Number (RON) 95 or above for C-HR 

Toyota Japan recommends Unleaded Regular Gasoline for C-HR but octane number not mentioned. Their regular gasoline is 90 RON, right?

 

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Yes..in Japan Regular can be anything from 90 to 95 depending on the brand.