Petition Hybrid

[The Don]

Guys, I did not read through the entire thing, as much was not relevant.

But this is my suggestion.

1. I do think you should petition the government (not autolanka) to get a concession for vehicles for which LC was already open before the policy change was anounced. This was government policy for a long time before the MR regime.

2. You have a right to lobby the government to help with issues you have, either as a group or as individuals. Its part of the democratic process. There are specialist sites to create such petition, so once you have created one, if you want to publish the link, people who support you will sign. Of course not everybody will aggree on you.

3. The reality of the situation is a vehicle purchase in Sri Lanka is a big expenditure, much more than in developed countries. I have nothing against people using their hard earned money to buy something as a reward for their hard work. I might not aggree with their tastes but frankly its none of my business. And it is normal for thing to be financially tight. I don't think its realistic to expect people to maintain million rupee buffers just in case the government tax goes up, when considering a purchase. So I do not aggree with people who say "tough, you've got to live within your means etc". Perhaps if you never has financial difficulties, or was completely dependent on your own earnings or your salary you genuinely would not understand. But if you work 12 hour days, for your salary, you pay your taxes, you raise your family the right way, you have saved money for a while and finally that car is within your grasp, and then it becomes another million more expensive??? How can that be right?

[Magnum]

Guys, I did not read through the entire thing, as much was not relevant.

But this is my suggestion.

1. I do think you should petition the government (not autolanka) to get a concession for vehicles for which LC was already open before the policy change was anounced. This was government policy for a long time before the MR regime.

2. You have a right to lobby the government to help with issues you have, either as a group or as individuals. Its part of the democratic process. There are specialist sites to create such petition, so once you have created one, if you want to publish the link, people who support you will sign. Of course not everybody will aggree on you.

3. The reality of the situation is a vehicle purchase in Sri Lanka is a big expenditure, much more than in developed countries. I have nothing against people using their hard earned money to buy something as a reward for their hard work. I might not aggree with their tastes but frankly its none of my business. And it is normal for thing to be financially tight. I don't think its realistic to expect people to maintain million rupee buffers just in case the government tax goes up, when considering a purchase. So I do not aggree with people who say "tough, you've got to live within your means etc". Perhaps if you never has financial difficulties, or was completely dependent on your own earnings or your salary you genuinely would not understand. But if you work 12 hour days, for your salary, you pay your taxes, you raise your family the right way, you have saved money for a while and finally that car is within your grasp, and then it becomes another million more expensive??? How can that be right?

The common petition site I have come across is change.org

Are petitions opened in this site taken seriously? Has any such petitions actually made a change in SL?

Edited February 2, 2015 by Magnum

[Watchman]

I guess he forgot to add the link to sign it online. Here is the link if you want to help these fellas. https://www.change.org/p/hon-ravi-karunanayake-please-exempt-the-new-hybrid-car-tax-scheme-from-individuals-who-have-opened-the-lc-before-the-29th-budget?recruiter=30294506&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=share_facebook_responsive&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-no_msg&utm_content=ci_fb_share_title_text%3Ano_dm_l

The common petition site I have come across is change.org

Are petitions opened in this site taken seriously? Has any such petitions actually made a change in SL?

[Ruslan]

Can other road users starta petition against the bloody moronic hybrid drivers here? Petition against the way they drive, against the way they drive with HIGH Beams on all night? against the hogging the road?

Plus the A-holes with strobe led lights. Thought yahapalanaya would've put an end to this. Apparently it's not.. :3

[The Don]

The common petition site I have come across is change.org

Are petitions opened in this site taken seriously? Has any such petitions actually made a change in SL?

The objective of a petition is to provide evidence that a certain issue has enough support to be considered. I'm not sure if its ever been used succesfully in SL, but who knows, unless you try, you do not know.

There are many cases where concessions were afforded by the government in the past, if enough people got together and presented an objective assesment of the injustice.

[Nuwan Perera]

So Nuwan, do you assume that our Finance Minister will have a look at the Petition created in the AL website? Our mods Peri can check if Mr Ravi is a member of the site & invite him to this thread.

Or let me just quote your name & pass this message across when I meet him next Sunday at Rajagiriya church.

Edit: Let's face the bitter truth. If there is a loss you have to incur, you have to accept it. There is no way out. Let's just say it's Karma.

It was just FYI post on AL regarding the petition. The actual handing over of the petition happened today morning @ Ministry of Finance. No offence, but the way u guys talks seems like kids. These people have grouped together for a purpose and a serious matter to express the situation they are in where the recent changes have treat them unfairly. And the request is to exempt the people who have oped up the LCs before 29-Jan.

[Nuwan Perera]

The objective of a petition is to provide evidence that a certain issue has enough support to be considered. I'm not sure if its ever been used succesfully in SL, but who knows, unless you try, you do not know.

There are many cases where concessions were afforded by the government in the past, if enough people got together and presented an objective assesment of the injustice.

Noting is like trying. Even people get together and put their idea still you have to submit your request to exempt the extra tax in written. That's why the petition was submitted.

[The Don]

Noting is like trying. Even people get together and put their idea still you have to submit your request to exempt the extra tax in written. That's why the petition was submitted.

Yeah, doing something productive always beats moaning about things and doing nothing.

This is a particularly serious problem in Sri Lanka, that we don't seem to have a stable economic policy, which makes investing in the country VERY unattractive. This is all to solve point issues. Now we will end up with a pile of batteries with no mechanism of recycling, and skewed the market unnatuarry towards hybrids, rather than natural progression take place (most manufacturers now have Hybrids but its still not mainstream).

Personally I do not feel Hybrids should have ever been given tax breaks. Ironically I now support the extra dueties levied on Diesel vehicle as its become rather apparent that its created a serious pollution issue in European cities as they made it more attractive to run a Diesel though taxation.

[Dafunkdi]

All the grumblers in this forum are either hybrid car users, the car sale dudes or the so called professionals who couldn't do their math properly with regard to their finances & have ordered hybrids & now mourning like silly sissies. I feel the professional qualification didn't teach them something called risk (You need to make an allowance for risk) & they believe the economy should run on perfect per-determined standards. So what about the people who paid premium prices in 2007-10? What about the increase in 2012 again? They never petitioned. Look! Shit happens & get used to it without complaining for everything. The country as a whole & the reductions for essential stuff is more important right now than a silly hybrid issue. So don't be selfish.

What worries me is whether there will be a petition for the price reductions as well, because I saw gobba wimal criticizing it too.

By the way I feel there are more so called suv "vezel" in this country after three-wheelers.

Edited February 3, 2015 by Dafunkdi

[Pericles]

We are a group of individuals currently in the process of importing vehicles directly from Japan for our own personal use. The sudden and unexpected increase in taxes from the January 29 budget proposals have significantly increased our cost to a level that we simply cannot afford to bear.

The process of selecting, buying, and importing a vehicle for individual use directly from Japan takes about two to three months, nevertheless we had opted to do that after a careful consideration of the previous tax scheme and our limited budgets as it was more cost effective than buying from a local car seller.

Being professionals, we are in full agreement that the government sometimes need to increase taxes in certain places in order to support concessions elsewhere. But, please consider the fact that many of us have obtained leases and loans up to the maximum monthly installments possible with our salaries. The vehicles were already selected and ordered, the letters of credit already established, and in many cases the vehicle had already shipped out of Japan. With this tax increase, we are left in the helpless position of not being able to cancel our purchases nor pay the additional tax and clear the vehicles.

Therefore, we implore that you consider our justified case and make an exemption on the announced tax increment for already ordered vehicles

It was just FYI post on AL regarding the petition. The actual handing over of the petition happened today morning @ Ministry of Finance. No offence, but the way u guys talks seems like kids. These people have grouped together for a purpose and a serious matter to express the situation they are in where the recent changes have treat them unfairly. And the request is to exempt the people who have oped up the LCs before 29-Jan.

In that case, it was an extremely poorly worded post. For what you say, it would have to be a copy and paste, straight from the petition into the forum with no regard for context or medium. How the heck is anyone supposed to know if this is FYI or whatever else was in someones head but NOT expressed in the posts? Is this the professional behaviour we expect from professionals, random copy-paste into forums? No wonder the reaction! I don't see how you expect to sit there and complain in light of the the serious lack of communication by the OP.

[Pericles]

Also, just my opinion, I doubt you will get anywhere. You might have noticed, most of these actions are in direct favouration of the Importers Association, who's main goal is to stop personal imports and make sure people are forced to go through their members. So unless some people in your group have serious political pull (forget the fashionable yahapanana slogans, its just marketing) it simply will not work.

Again, just my opinion.

[bycap]

It was just FYI post on AL regarding the petition. The actual handing over of the petition happened today morning @ Ministry of Finance. No offence, but the way u guys talks seems like kids. These people have grouped together for a purpose and a serious matter to express the situation they are in where the recent changes have treat them unfairly. And the request is to exempt the people who have oped up the LCs before 29-Jan.

Lol... you could have said "FYI" at the beginning of your post. you had said " consider our justified case and make an exemption...."

I thought you were requesting form the forum. :D

Edited February 4, 2015 by bycap

[The Don]

Well even the JVP is supporting this position on LCs, which ironically includes whats left of the UPFA (who mind you did exactly the same a couple of years ago, so it is indeed ironic).

[B2Spirit]

Well even the JVP is supporting this position on LCs, which ironically includes whats left of the UPFA (who mind you did exactly the same a couple of years ago, so it is indeed ironic).

Yes. Hopefully the JVP backing will carry some weight on this issue.

Ravi K is saying there is no precedent for that kind of relief which is totally false.

Maybe the number of vehicles involved is huge, because i can't understand why they are being so firm on this.

Edited February 4, 2015 by B2Spirit

[Crosswind]

I wonder why no one opened their mouths when taxes were changed during the last regime...

Damn I miss those white vans :-)

[kmeeg]

What I find it hilarious is why people WANT to buy a 4Mn + car they can ill afford to be stuck in traffic in Colombo 24/7?

You can easily do that in a cheaper car...

Exactly VVTi I was wondering. Since i haven't own a Hybrid i was wondering;

1. Does a hybrid really give that much fuel economy when you travel in Colombo traffic?

2. Also is it really worth to pay {the value of a hybrid + insurance cost + fuel cost} vs a {cheaper car + insurance + fuel}?

On another point about this "Petition Hybrid" its really bad to see these kind of sudden tax changes and i know how it feels bcos i was impacted twice due to these kind of changes. Wish those who already opened LCs would get some sort of relief this time even though we didn't get last time.. I don't think any of us want to see ppl loosing money..

[kush]

Exactly VVTi I was wondering. Since i haven't own a Hybrid i was wondering;

1. Does a hybrid really give that much fuel economy when you travel in Colombo traffic?

2. Also is it really worth to pay {the value of a hybrid + insurance cost + fuel cost} vs a {cheaper car + insurance + fuel}?

On another point about this "Petition Hybrid" its really bad to see these kind of sudden tax changes and i know how it feels bcos i was impacted twice due to these kind of changes. Wish those who already opened LCs would get some sort of relief this time even though we didn't get last time.. I don't think any of us want to see ppl loosing money..

1. No, I brought Honda FIT few weeks back it does around 14-15 kmpl in city (way out of claimed) I’m sure the ICE FIT might not be way off.
2. Hybrid made sense not due to their economy but for low purchase price due to the huge tax discrepancy that prevailed. ICE car of the same type cost more even if you get it down on a permit (inclusive of permit price) eg: Axio Rs. 4-4.5 Mn. against Rs. 5-5.5 Mn.

I do feel for the people affected, but one must also understand the risks associated. Tax disparity was way too much and a correction was needed.

Even now it is 92% or so Vs 160% or so

[ramishkad]

1. Does a hybrid really give that much fuel economy when you travel in Colombo traffic?

2. Also is it really worth to pay {the value of a hybrid + insurance cost + fuel cost} vs a {cheaper car + insurance + fuel}?

1. I doubt it. Using a Honda Civic hybrid and it does around 13kmpl in Colombo city driving with traffic (note that i dont drive it with fuel saving in mind. Just drive like a regular car). Lot better than non hybrid civics but I wouldn't consider as some magical hybrid fuel saving. Plus I dont think any hybrid would do the claimed 20+kmpl figures in heavy stop and go traffic.

2. This depends on your requirements. If you run a lot of miles per month there will be some saving in the long term. If you are are running less than 1500kms a month I dont really see an advantage of using a hybrid.

Either way having to suddenly pay +1mil for the vehicle you import is a kicker in the balls. I hope you guys get a good solution for your problem.

Edited February 5, 2015 by ramishkad

[iRage]

1. Does a hybrid really give that much fuel economy when you travel in Colombo traffic?

Nope....been using a rental Prius in Colombo. Without any changes o my driving style I got on average 11kmpl; true the trip meter showed everything from 8kmpl to 19 kmpl for trips I did. (This opposed to on average 7ish kmpl I get on the RAV4 in Colombo) My dad who is very aggressive with his acceleration and braking used it for a week and he managed to get way less than that (he gets about 5-6 on the RAV4). I used it strictly around Colombo, the battery never charged fully. At first it was a PITA to drive where it didn't pickup and move etc..but after some time you get used to how to make the thing move.

Edited February 5, 2015 by iRage

[MV-5]

Nope....been using a rental Prius in Colombo. Without any changes o my driving style I got on average 11kmpl; true the trip meter showed everything from 8kmpl to 19 kmpl for trips I did. (This opposed to on average 7ish kmpl I get on the RAV4 in Colombo) My dad who is very aggressive with his acceleration and braking used it for a week and he managed to get way less than that (he gets about 5-6 on the RAV4). I used it strictly around Colombo, the battery never charged fully. At first it was a PITA to drive where it didn't pickup and move etc..but after some time you get used to how to make the thing move.

for a single trip, KMPL value make no sense at all.

Hybrids are designed to get the advantage of different combination of speed+ power demand . so hybrid fuel figures will be highly depend on how far this usage meets these combination.

if a hybrid is going to be used only in heavy traffic then this usage does not meet a good combination to produce good fuel economy.

so Hybrid fuel figures should be measured for at least for 5000KM.

[ramishkad]

for a single trip, KMPL value make no sense at all.

Hybrids are designed to get the advantage of different combination of speed+ power demand . so hybrid fuel figures will be highly depend on how far this usage meets these combination.

if a hybrid is going to be used only in heavy traffic then this usage does not meet a good combination to produce good fuel economy.

so Hybrid fuel figures should be measured for at least for 5000KM.

For the last 18000 or so km run in mine, the average is around 16kmpl. This is around 50% city mileage and 50% long distance mileage. Still I do not feel this figure is high enough to claim that 'hybrids save fuel'.

[The Don]

Most people bought hybrids I recon because they were the cheapest new cars around which could be considered modern more than the rumoured fuel saving. Considering the extra costs associated with battery issues, the fuel savings only help the overall cost of ownership if you do a lot of miles. But because of the skewed tax system the closest standard fuel car is many hundreds of thousands of rupees more expensive.

What they need to do is give tax breaks for features such as stop start, energy recovery systems etc as well as manufacturer advertised polution (CO2 and NOX) and fuel economy levels. That would have been a fairer way to impose tax, rather than creating a funny market for hybrids and suddenly changing tax policy.

[Davy]

Looks like the protest by the Hybrid buyers today has worked. The minister has agreed to grant concessions to those affected (personal importers).

Source: Here

[The Don]

Looks like the protest by the Hybrid buyers today has worked. The minister has agreed to grant concessions to those affected (personal importers).

Source: Here

Pure people power Common sense has prevailed.

May I also point out, the same protests were made when the last Government suddenly changed taxes which affected convensional vehicles, and the government simply ignored the protests from very many parties affected, particularly lower middle income people waiting for their Viva Elites and Maruti's which I thought was shameful.

I don't want to talk about political alleigances, but I'm happy that a valid concern has been listened to and some relief provided.

Edited February 5, 2015 by The Don

[B2Spirit]

Pure people power Common sense has prevailed.

May I also point out, the same protests were made when the last Government suddenly changed taxes which affected convensional vehicles, and the government simply ignored the protests from very many parties affected, particularly lower middle income people waiting for their Viva Elites and Maruti's which I thought was shameful.

I don't want to talk about political alleigances, but I'm happy that a valid concern has been listened to and some relief provided.

Yes .

Unfortunately for Ravi K he has been one of those who protested against the hike mentioned above in 2012.

And JVP bring a good example to explain the situation

According to Ravi K in this video, Those who imported vehicles for personal use (Definition being LC & Vehicle Registration Under same name - although i think they will just mean personal importers as it would be hard to tally LC with registration which happens after custom clearance and duty payment) will be given a waiver it seems.

http://www.parliament.lk/business-of-parliament/webcast/parliament-live-on-demand?selectdate=2015-02-05

(see Video 2 - 02.05 PM to 3.10 PM)

I think it is a great outcome as

1. As mentioned above common sense has prevailed and the truly affected are being given a concession

2. The Imports for business purposes (Car sales etc) are not being given free piggyback ride on those affected parties and therefore will be dealt with the new tax system.

Edited February 5, 2015 by B2Spirit