Allion 260 rolling back problem

Che Guevara · July 24, 2016

Hi,

I have recently bought a toyota allion 260 2007 car. And it's rolling back in a hill even though the gear is in D. The problem occurs when you stopping in the traffic and when you lift the foot from the break it rolls back even though it's in D. And also at idel the RPM meter drops below 1. I don't think it's because of the hill is too stiff, becz it's around Colombo and i have driven the same route again and again with my previous car (toyata vios) and i haven't experienced any thing like before. What would be the issue in my car ?

Twin Turbo · July 24, 2016

May be it's time for a service, Any idea of the service history on your car?

Don't wait till the stops going all together, the endless hours spent in the tropical operating conditions may be taking their toll.

P.s. Kindly refer the thread of the previous 260 with the blown 'box

Edited July 24, 2016 by Twin Turbo

hrm · July 24, 2016

This happens in my Vitz too and only in bit steep inclines. Some search in the Internet showed that this is somewhat normal for CVTs as they have a relatively mild torque converter. Should not happen in small inclines though. Some newer cars with hill-hold, hill start assist systems supposed to prevent this.

Edited July 24, 2016 by hrm

Che Guevara · July 24, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 9:26 AM, hrm said:

This happens in my Vitz too and only in bit steep inclines. Some search in the Internet showed that this is somewhat normal for CVTs as they have a relatively mild torque converter. Should not happen in small inclines though. Some newer cars with hill-hold, hill start assist systems supposed to prevent this.

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Yes, my mechanic also said that it would be a CVT gear box issue and clutch is not pressurizing enough. But i don't have any clue about it, whether to replace the gear box ? what is the cost of it? or the problem is not entirely the gear box ?

hrm · July 24, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 9:40 AM, Che Guevara said:

Yes, my mechanic also said that it would be a CVT gear box issue and clutch is not pressurizing enough. But i don't have any clue about it, whether to replace the gear box ? what is the cost of it? or the problem is not entirely the gear box ?

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Does you car rollback even in small inclines? Do you have any records of previous CVT oil replacements? I actually don't know the exact price of them but second hand prices should be around 100 - 150K. You may do a scan in T*y*ta Lanka to be sure about this.

I have observed this since the day I bought my car and thought it was normal for CVTs and many online forums support that.

Edited July 24, 2016 by hrm

gayanath · July 24, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 9:40 AM, Che Guevara said:

Yes, my mechanic also said that it would be a CVT gear box issue and clutch is not pressurizing enough. But i don't have any clue about it, whether to replace the gear box ? what is the cost of it? or the problem is not entirely the gear box ?

Expand

Wait.. wait....

Is there any other running issues than this? If no, forget this for sometime and enjoy your car. Its too early to decide anything. Investigate the situation with various conditions.

What is your exact idle RPM?

Most probably this could be a normal condition.

asrock · July 24, 2016

I have experienced this on my Allion 260 and few other cars with CVT, but only on steep inclines. If this is the only issue with the CVT and if gears engage normally I wouldn't worry about this much.

matroska · July 24, 2016

Didn't know this happened on other CVT's as for me I'm quite used to this due to the auto-stop function in my Honda Fit.

P.S : Being an IT guy the first time it 'Rolled-back' I desperately looked for a place to issue a 'Commit'

.

Edited July 25, 2016 by matroska
pun intended.(Really sorry for the non-automotive pun but just couldn't resist it)

Kavvz · July 24, 2016

It used to happen on my previous CVT's but the newer ones don't roll back: Well, I'm not sure about the other brands but at least the ones from Nissan from 2010 onwards shouldn't roll back...

Edited July 24, 2016 by Kavvz

sathyajithj99 · July 25, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 10:09 PM, Kavvz said:

It used to happen on my previous CVT's but the newer ones don't roll back: Well, I'm not sure about the other brands but at least the ones from Nissan from 2010 onwards shouldn't roll back...

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I guess that's because your Teana comes with "hill start assist " option.

Che Guevara · July 25, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 12:34 PM, hrm said:

Does you car rollback even in small inclines? Do you have any records of previous CVT oil replacements? I actually don't know the exact price of them but second hand prices should be around 100 - 150K. You may do a scan in T*y*ta Lanka to be sure about this.

I have observed this since the day I bought my car and thought it was normal for CVTs and many online forums support that.

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i don't have previous records with me. But i'm going to replace the oil and do a engine tuneup and see

Che Guevara · July 25, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 2:49 PM, gayanath said:

Wait.. wait....

Is there any other running issues than this? If no, forget this for sometime and enjoy your car. Its too early to decide anything. Investigate the situation with various conditions.

What is your exact idle RPM?

Most probably this could be a normal condition.

Expand

No other running issues. Only this one. RPM drops below 1 even gear in D. I'm not going to do gear box replacement but i'm wondering is there any easy fix for this ?

gayanath · July 25, 2016

On 7/25/2016 at 11:57 AM, Che Guevara said:

No other running issues. Only this one. RPM drops below 1 even gear in D. I'm not going to do gear box replacement but i'm wondering is there any easy fix for this ?

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1. Did you replaced the battery or previous owner replaced it recently? (If so he could be given you the warranty card and please check the date)

2. What is the millage of the car (anyway do not trust our sellers)?

hrm · July 25, 2016

On 7/25/2016 at 11:57 AM, Che Guevara said:

No other running issues. Only this one. RPM drops below 1 even gear in D. I'm not going to do gear box replacement but i'm wondering is there any easy fix for this ?

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You mean below 1000 mark in D? That's very normal. In fact mine it's around 600-650. I don't think any modern vehicle would have above 1000 RPM in D.

Edited July 25, 2016 by hrm

ghostwriter · July 25, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 7:26 PM, matroska said:

P.S : Being an IT guy the first time it 'Rolled-back' I desperately looked for a place to issue a 'Commit'

.

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LOL

asrock · July 25, 2016

On 7/25/2016 at 12:23 PM, hrm said:

You mean below 1000 mark in D? That's very normal. In fact mine it's around 600-650. I don't think any modern vehicle would have above 1000 RPM in D.

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Yup on my allion it was 700 or something when idling with AC on. If there is no considerable amount of vibration you should be ok.

Kavvz · July 25, 2016

On 7/25/2016 at 2:32 AM, sathyajithj99 said:

I guess that's because your Teana comes with "hill start assist " option.

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No, the Teana doesn't have an hill start assist button / option on the transmission.... Its my understanding that Nissan fixed the roll back issue with some complex engineering for all the CVT's used throughout their model line (as far as I know). I won't pretend to understand it, or know how it works, but I can attest that it works! (and that the older Nissan CVT's rolled back which was quite normal for a CVT).

(The new Nissan CVT's are quite decent and have gotten better with each update. I see a big difference in the current transmission from the ones in 2007, 2009 & 2012. Nissan's apparently even using a CVT transmission on the new 3.5 V6 Pathfinder which is pretty ballsy. Not sure how that will hold up on such a heavy vehicle especially if owners tow stuff etc. Having said that, the 2009 and the 2013 CVT transmissions (both were years when new updates to the CVT transmission were rolled out) have some bugs and are prone to early failure apparently, but even then, the general perception seems to be positive for Nissan's CVT's).

The Stig · July 26, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 7:26 PM, matroska said:

P.S : Being an IT guy the first time it 'Rolled-back' I desperately looked for a place to issue a 'Commit'

.

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Isn't the goto response "Did you try turning it off and on again?"

matroska · July 26, 2016

On 7/26/2016 at 9:51 AM, The Stig said:

Isn't the goto response "Did you try turning it off and on again?"

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yeah it is.. but when it comes to rollback the opposite is commit

udinnet · December 18, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 7:08 AM, Che Guevara said:

Hi,

I have recently bought a toyota allion 260 2007 car. And it's rolling back in a hill even though the gear is in D. The problem occurs when you stopping in the traffic and when you lift the foot from the break it rolls back even though it's in D. And also at idel the RPM meter drops below 1. I don't think it's because of the hill is too stiff, becz it's around Colombo and i have driven the same route again and again with my previous car (toyata vios) and i haven't experienced any thing like before. What would be the issue in my car ?

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As per my observation in my Allion 260, If you're in a steep incline and your foot is off the gas, You'll experience a roll-back. I've seen this quite often in toyota CVT vehicles other than the once with hill-assist support. If there is no any symptoms of the transmission like pulling power issues, you shouldn't be worrying about it.

For the engine idling question, the engine will never ever go beyond 1k revs (if it is not a cold start), if its on idle with or without A/C. Usual numbers for 260s will be,

600-650 without A/C

800-850 with A/C.

So don't want to worry about that as well.

Edited December 18, 2016 by udinnet

varunatech · December 18, 2016

This is usual in the Toyota CVT box. Nothing unusual. Enjoy your ride, remember to change the oils at the correct interval. Specially CVT. If your previous owner has forgotten or does not has any records, better to change CVT now and start a record.

PerfMad · December 19, 2016

On 7/24/2016 at 7:08 AM, Che Guevara said:

Hi,

I have recently bought a toyota allion 260 2007 car. And it's rolling back in a hill even though the gear is in D. The problem occurs when you stopping in the traffic and when you lift the foot from the break it rolls back even though it's in D. And also at idel the RPM meter drops below 1. I don't think it's because of the hill is too stiff, becz it's around Colombo and i have driven the same route again and again with my previous car (toyata vios) and i haven't experienced any thing like before. What would be the issue in my car ?

Expand

Hi Che guevara

I have a honda city (cvt gearbox) car, and its behavior is similar to yours. And that is simply how its made, so there isn't anything to be worried as long as it doesn't have any pulling power issues or delay in moving in cold start..

Also regarding the idling it is normal.. In neutral it will probably sit around 850-900 with AC on probably , but once you switch to D position rev will go little low, but that is normal and its doing what exactly been told to..

So cheers mate and let it go from your head .. If you are still worried you can check with someone who is using the same model..