Allion / Premio

[PRAGIN]

Hi experts,

What do you think about these comments? Is it under powered engine?

[iRage]

On 8/14/2016 at 0:09 PM, Kal-El said:

These so called Jap luxury vehicles look somewhat artificial if you ask me as they try too hard to make their presence known. And those grills, looks rather ugly to me. I am not try to undervalue any vehicle here, but I cant comprehend why people are so fond of these.

If you are considering Allions/Premios and use the word Jap Luxury vehicle in the same sentence...you my dear friend are a typical misguided SL car buyer. Not even Toyota calls these luxury vehicles nor do they call it performance vehicles. 

I find it amusing that the people commenting on the FB page just blindly bought the same car in different metal. Again, typical SL mentality...funny that the fact that it was XXT260 didn't make any lights light up.

Yes...the 1.5L is quite lackluster...the 1.8 is a bit better and the 2.0 a bit better than that...(but the 2.0L comes closer to a base mark X in price in Japan). To be honest most CVT boxes I have driven, irrespective of brand has been uncertain and twitchy in shifting (some mask it a bit better than others).

Premios, Allions, Corollas are just pure econo boxes made to drive from point A to B. For the most part they do that quite well. Albeit in Sri Lanka the issue is when people buy a car like a Premio/Allion/Axio they expect it to be a luxury car, sports car, econo box, all in one (understandable considering the exorbitant values they ahve to pay for them). When Toyota wants to purpose build a car they seem to do it quite well....when they wanted to build sports cars..they came out with something pretty decent (now don't go on saying the GT86 is under powered etc...it was never meant to be about power)...with proper executive and luxury cars..also quite decent....so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise that when they want to make econo boxes for the average Joe they did a decent job of it (looking aside instances of building cars that want to self drive on to oncoming traffic and trees of course...)

It all depends on what you consider fun to drive....

Toyotas have traditionally had rather light steering; even the cars that have been considered to be fun and/or nice have had this . Anyone who has driven a Trueno AE85 or AE86 would know this (also the reason why a lot convert AE86/85 with PS for manual racks)..and yes...even the E100 Corolla or the T200 series Carina/Corona which we refer to as Toyota's "good days" have been plagued with this (drive a Civic or Integra of the same era and then drive E100 Corolla or T200 Carina/Corona...you will see what I mean). The lightness kind of makes it a bit "uninvolving" in a weird sort of way...in the 80s most never noticed it because these cars hardly came with power steering (and still was light! again...drive a lancer or civic of the same era). The distraction continued in to the 90s and early 2000s because with no-EPS (and lack of computers driving the car) there was some decent road feel coming through; and these cars had a lot of other things going well for it that you almost forgave the small quirks. And the light steering didn't make them bad cars. Lets not even talk about the f***d up feeling of torque steer combined with light steering of FWD Toyotas in the 80s.  

On the other hand...what Toyota did get right every once in awhile was some decent balance and a willing little frame/chassis. If you take the Aqua...it actually has quite a nimble frame that inspires you to chuck it in to bends..then the light steering kills that inspiration (if you are brave enough to push it more you will realize that the steering is a bit slow to react). Then there is the AE85/86....I have never driven a car that is so eager to want to go in a straight line in a corner and then rather apologetically decides to turn it to it. 

A lot of people (on AL ? in SL?) consider the Lancer EX fun to drive...yes it is better than the Sunny and the Axio and Corolla...and has a lot of positive things about it (ironically so does the export model Corolla 14x and 16x series)...but to be honest...it is not exactly the powered down Evo that everyone wants to believe it is....in fact I enjoyed driving the Axela a lot more than the Lancer EX (what I did like about the Lancer Ex was the engine noise coming in...weird)

...so yeah...it depends on what you consider as "fun to drive..."  

Okay....I have been working for 18 hours non stop and that was stress reduction rant..no idea what came out...good night !

Edited August 17, 2016 by iRage

[alpha17]

The problem why people believe allions and premios are the most comfortable,economical and sportiest is the price they pay for them.8 million for an allion and premio.pure econoboxes.but in usa u can get a brand new lexus ls for that price($63000).the funniest thing i've ever seen is the toyota corolla's brand new import price which goes over 10million.we are paying the same price that american pays for a full size luxury saloon,for an econobox.as the opposite the most pathetic thing i've seen is the merc e-class 2004 kompressor goes for 4 million while aqua cost more than 4million.simply "MEKA THAMAI ASIYAWE ASCHARYAYA"

[Twin Turbo]

Yes, with good reason these people have given these comments,.. Kindly refer the issues had by AL members,.. 

As for the engine, wonder if the engine was fitted to crawl in heavy traffic.And the self distrusting CVT transmission , definitely an embarrassment for the greatest car-maker of our time.  

 

Edited August 13, 2016 by Twin Turbo

[hrm]

Common characteristics of Toyota CVTs described there. In any Toyota with CVT it would be the same and those cars are not oriented at performance at all. However don't expect sudden power surges as normal autos in any CVT. It's always linear and boring most of the time.

[VecLa]

I had used 240 & 260 (model that was released in 2010) both models. I still liked 240, may be due to its design. However, both Allion & Premio are good cars for daily family running. We all know that they are not in performance or car enthusiasts' domain. They are reliable, comfy & fuel efficient in that class of vehicles. Both models got 1.8l and 2.0l versions.

Edited August 13, 2016 by VecLa

[Jor-el]

Referring to the BRATT thread and many others most members here in AL describe Toyota Allions/Axios/Premios as "Boring to drive" cars...

[The Stig]

6 hours ago, Jor-el said:

Referring to the BRATT thread and many others most members here in AL describe Toyota Allions/Axios/Premios as "Boring to drive" cars...

Well to be fair when was the last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ?

Mass market mentality hit Toyota and they did the right thing because this is actually what the average joe want, AL is full of enthusiasts so of course we don't like these (myself included). The problem is when the average joe buys a Toyota for the wrong reasons.

[hrm]

18 minutes ago, The Stig said:

Well to be fair when was the last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ?

Mass market mentality hit Toyota and they did the right thing because this is actually what the average joe want, AL is full of enthusiasts so of course we don't like these (myself included). The problem is when the average joe buys a Toyota for the wrong reasons.

In Sri Lankan context buying an Allion/Premio is a luxury and "pick-up" is a part of that luxury despite what the car actually is.

[Jor-el]

19 minutes ago, The Stig said:

Well to be fair when was the last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ?

“On the outside the thing's a normal Panda Trueno, but on the inside it's a beast like you've never seen.” - Koichiro Iketani, talking about Takumi Fujiwara's AE86

[Kavvz]

8 hours ago, The Stig said:

Well to be fair when was the last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ?

 

True, but I can name two fun Toyota's I'd love to see parked in my garage:

Toyota 86 GT

Lexus GS 450h 

And if only I had Rs 5 every time someone said; "Toyotas' are boring to drive". I'd have at least the GS parked in my driveway by now!  

Edited August 14, 2016 by Kavvz

[Kal-El]

These so called Jap luxury vehicles look somewhat artificial if you ask me as they try too hard to make their presence known. And those grills, looks rather ugly to me. I am not try to undervalue any vehicle here, but I cant comprehend why people are so fond of these.

In the minds of true car enthusiasts these cars do not make a better impression than a basic sedan and these are definitely not worth the asking price IMO.

You can get a mint low mile F30 3 Series BMW (2012-2013) or 2013-2014 Audi A4 for that price. Those cars have real presence and far better at driving dynamics and comfort.

But not all of us are fond of Euro's though as most (mainly outside Colombo) are scared sh*t-less about the Euro's and run faster than Usain Bolt when I recommend a good Euro to them to purchase 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Kal-El

[The Stig]

5 hours ago, Kavvz said:

True, but I can name two fun Toyota's I'd love to see parked in my garage:

Toyota 86 GT

Lexus GS 450h 

And if only I had Rs 5 every time someone said; "Toyotas' are boring to drive". I'd have at least the GS parked in my driveway by now!  

 

We are talking about allions and mass market grade cars here and you want to compare it to a 340hp car, lol have you finally lost it ? Thats like saying the Nissan sunny is a fun to drive car because Nissan also makes the R35 GTR. Also if you are really considering lexus you missed the most important one, which is the LFA.

You know that most lexus cars have complete different suspension setups than the average toyotas right ? In fact i think none of the toyotas being brought to Sri Lanka below the crown range (with the exception of the rare camry) even has rear independent suspension.

On a side note about the 86 can you consider a car that was "Jointly" developed with Subaru a Toyota ? And come on dude do you want me to name "Performance oriented" cars that Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru and Mazda have made while Toyota was busy making this one car ?
 

12 hours ago, Jor-el said:

“On the outside the thing's a normal Panda Trueno, but on the inside it's a beast like you've never seen.” - Koichiro Iketani, talking about Takumi Fujiwara's AE86

Thats why i said " last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ", name one front wheel drive sedan from this decade thats fun to drive. I can name plenty from Mazda, Honda and Mitsubishi.

[Kavvz]

27 minutes ago, The Stig said:

 

We are talking about allions and mass market grade cars here and you want to compare it to a 340hp car, lol have you finally lost it ? Thats like saying the Nissan sunny is a fun to drive car because Nissan also makes the R35 GTR. Also if you are really considering lexus you missed the most important one, which is the LFA.

You know that most lexus cars have complete different suspension setups than the average toyotas right ? In fact i think none of the toyotas being brought to Sri Lanka below the crown range (with the exception of the rare camry) even has rear independent suspension.

On a side note about the 86 can you consider a car that was "Jointly" developed with Subaru a Toyota ? And come on dude do you want me to name "Performance oriented" cars that Honda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru and Mazda have made while Toyota was busy making this one car ?
 

Thats why i said " last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ", name one front wheel drive sedan from this decade thats fun to drive. I can name plenty from Mazda, Honda and Mitsubishi.

Ah! You have a point. The GS, especially the 450h isn't mass market, its more of a specialized niche player if there ever was one. And true the 86 was a joint development, so maybe its not far to solely brand it a Toyota:  All true.

However, I do think there are the odd gems out there in the Toyota chaff; especially in the upper end of their model range. 

 

[Kavvz]

53 minutes ago, The Stig said:

 

Thats why i said " last time you heard that Toyotas are fun to drive ", name one front wheel drive sedan from this decade thats fun to drive. I can name plenty from Mazda, Honda and Mitsubishi.

Are we talking mass market / entry level cars in the Sri Lankan market only? 'Cos considering the current global lineup, both the Camry and the Avalon are not too bad...They'd lose out to say a Mazda 6 but I think they don't come off too shabby when pitted against the Accord. 

[Jor-el]

1 hour ago, Kavvz said:

Are we talking mass market / entry level cars in the Sri Lankan market only? 

I guess there's no point considering the global lineup, afterall the topic is on two passenger cars very common in SL

2 hours ago, The Stig said:

 In fact i think none of the toyotas being brought to Sri Lanka below the crown range (with the exception of the rare camry) even has rear independent suspension.

 name one front wheel drive sedan from this decade thats fun to drive. I can name plenty from Mazda, Honda and Mitsubishi.

I was wondering if all mass market cars from these manufacturers have 4-wheel independent suspension.

If that's the case, how come Toyotas which come with torsion beams and boring driving dynamics are this popular in SL? How come they fetch such good resale values? Are Toyotas that much reliable than  aforementioned car makes? One would say for the commoner who drives in SL roads Toyota driving dynamics suits the best. I've seen more Geely Emgrands on the road than Lancer EXs.( However Honda Civics and Mazda 3/axelas make an appearance, that too sporadically) Being the Mitsubishi fan I am I wonder why new Mitsubishi cars are this much scarce on SL roads. You can hardly find an EX for sale on car advertisement sites either.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Jor-el

[Kavvz]

6 hours ago, Jor-el said:

I guess there's no point considering the global lineup, afterall the topic is on two passenger cars c very common in SL

Yes, but they are global brands,  and if one is to make a broad blanket statement about the brand in general; its only fair that you look at the complete product lineup being sold...

Edited August 14, 2016 by Kavvz

[Kavvz]

Just for fun I googled boring cars to drive and came across this engaging post on Jalopnik. 

Its pretty funny and while the usual suspects from Nissan, Honda, Kia, VW and Toyota show up, I was surprised by the inclusion of the Lancer ES on that list. 

 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Kavvz

[Kavvz]

6 hours ago, Jor-el said:

 

I was wondering if all mass market cars from these manufacturers have 4-wheel independent suspension.

If that's the case, how come Toyotas which come with torsion beams and boring driving dynamics are this popular in SL? How come they fetch such good resale values? Are Toyotas that much reliable than  aforementioned car makes? One would say for the commoner who drives in SL roads Toyota driving dynamics suits the best.

Not sure about all the things you've asked about, but perhaps the sense of perception that Toyota's are durable and super reliable could be a trickle down effect from the more commercial vehicle line-up like the Hilux and Landcruiser? One has only to look among the vehicle fleet in NGO / aid distribution / disaster relief organizations as well as rural government offices to see how much abuse those things can take and still run. 

 

[Jor-el]

2 hours ago, Kavvz said:

 One has only to look among the vehicle fleet in NGO / aid distribution / disaster relief organizations as well as rural government offices to see how much abuse those things can take and still run. 

 

Oh yeah? then one has only to look among the fleet of Palathsabha Pajeros and L200s found in almost every rural government office, 4DR5s at wildlife reserves to become a Mitsubishi fan for life!  

[sasika]

2 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Just for fun I googled boring cars to drive and came across this engaging post on Jalopnik. 

Its pretty funny and while the usual suspects from Nissan, Honda, Kia, VW and Toyota show up, I was surprised by the inclusion of the Lancer ES on that list. 

 

Only one Toyota?  Well most of the models we have here are toyota Domestic models like allion, premio and so on... They actually have good export models  

[Kavvz]

9 minutes ago, Jor-el said:

Oh yeah? then one has only to look among the fleet of Palathsabha Pajeros and L200s found in almost every rural government office, 4DR5s at wildlife reserves to become a Mitsubishi fan for life!  

Yeap true that! 

[Kavvz]

9 minutes ago, sasika said:

Only one Toyota?  Well most of the models we have here are toyota Domestic models like allion, premio and so on... They actually have good export models  

Well technically two Toyotas (as they included a Lexus ES / the Toyota Avalon) but interestingly only ONE American car?! Go figure!  

[The Stig]

20 hours ago, Jor-el said:

I guess there's no point considering the global lineup, afterall the topic is on two passenger cars very common in SL

I was wondering if all mass market cars from these manufacturers have 4-wheel independent suspension.

If that's the case, how come Toyotas which come with torsion beams and boring driving dynamics are this popular in SL? How come they fetch such good resale values? Are Toyotas that much reliable than  aforementioned car makes? One would say for the commoner who drives in SL roads Toyota driving dynamics suits the best. I've seen more Geely Emgrands on the road than Lancer EXs.( However Honda Civics and Mazda 3/axelas make an appearance, that too sporadically) Being the Mitsubishi fan I am I wonder why new Mitsubishi cars are this much scarce on SL roads. You can hardly find an EX for sale on car advertisement sites either.

Ofcourse not all cars from the manufacturers I stated comes with rear independent but almost all of their cars has independent rear from the compact sedan category up, Honda even used to have double wishbone in the front upto the es series. The Japanese exceptions are Toyota and Nissan. I think the last rear independent cars from Toyota was the 110 and Corona T210. Nissan droped it from the fb14. 

Your observation is correct and that is exactly why I said Toyota did the right thing by adopting the mass market mentality (from a business point of view).  The average Joe doesn't really care what type suspension his car has, in fact if you ask majority of Sri Lankan car owners they wouldn't know the difference between torsion beam and multilink or double wishbone. For most people a car is an investment, they try to find the car that they can sell off with minimum loss. I know most people don't even take the cars for a good spin before purchasing. Sadly for most the car has become something simmilar to a microwave, you buy it use it and then continue with your life. 

 

As for the reliability question less moving parts = less things that can go wrong and less maintenance.  But simplicity doesn't equal to better ride or handling. 

[sathyajithj99]

Talking about Toyotas,  I've been using my axio 141 for 5 years now. When I was selected for the university my father wanted to buy a car for me.  So I asked for a Mazda RX8 and yeah he said "NO". So he bought the axio for me saying it's good on fuel and easy to maintain.  Now I know he made the right decision because I had to pump fuel and do the maintenance of the car with the monthly allowance I get from home. So I didn't have any problem during my undergraduate life with the car because didn't have any major repairs except for the regular maintenance and decent on fuel as well.  But honestly I don't appreciate the handling of the axio that much. Now I've finished my studies and I'm looking for a Mazda axela or a 6. Toyotas maybe good on fuel and maintenance,  but that's definitely  not what the heart wants. 

[Magnum]

On 8/14/2016 at 6:17 PM, Jor-el said:

I guess there's no point considering the global lineup, afterall the topic is on two passenger cars very common in SL

I was wondering if all mass market cars from these manufacturers have 4-wheel independent suspension.

If that's the case, how come Toyotas which come with torsion beams and boring driving dynamics are this popular in SL? How come they fetch such good resale values? Are Toyotas that much reliable than  aforementioned car makes? One would say for the commoner who drives in SL roads Toyota driving dynamics suits the best. I've seen more Geely Emgrands on the road than Lancer EXs.( However Honda Civics and Mazda 3/axelas make an appearance, that too sporadically) Being the Mitsubishi fan I am I wonder why new Mitsubishi cars are this much scarce on SL roads. You can hardly find an EX for sale on car advertisement sites either.

Torsion beam has an upside, that is it gives more boot space.