To buy German or go the Japanese Way

zeristo · July 31, 2020

Of late, I've had the necessity to buy a car for me as I gave mine up to my spouse. Right now I'm stuck with a few pricey choices (for brand new cars). I don't want to wait for the imports to begin as I'm pretty sure vehicle prices are gonna shoot up given that the rupee has weakened against the dollar/yen plus the govt. would logically increase taxes to fill the coffers that are running dry these days. My budget could go upto 12-13Mn Max.

My choices are

Toyota Premio 2020 9.5-10mn
Honda Civic sedan 1.0 2020 7.2-7.5Mn UK SPEC
Honda Civic sedan 1.5 2020 9.5Mn THAILAND + 3 year warranty
Honda CRV 1.5 2019 12-13Mn THAILAND, AUSSIE & JAP (3 year warranty if bought from company)
Honda Accord 1.5 2019 12.6Mn THAILAND + 3 year warranty with services free for 3 years.

or is it advisable to go for something German like,

Merc CLA
BMW X1
Merc C200 (lower spec models)

I'm particularly looking for new cars as I own my cars for at least 5 years and run minimum 20,000 KM per year.

Could someone quite knowledgeable on this matter or someone who has gone through such a situation share your thoughts and suggestions. Would be of help while making a decision.

Thanks.

zeristo · August 13, 2020

So getting back to this discussion, I spent the last weekend scouting CarSale Town for vehicles.

This was what I learned,

BMW X1 is truly uninspiring and I don't see myself driving one for the next 5 years. Specially with the 3 pot 1.5
Test drove the Honda Accord and absolutely loved it ! An amazing value for money at its price point. Would definitely recommend.
Mercedes A200 & CLA200 - overpriced for its tiny size but tech is above its class.
Mercedes Benz C200 - not as bad as I thought for a 1.5, finding a decently priced one was hard given that they're selling like hot cakes these days.

After much thought it was between the Accord & C200. I then went ahead and test drove both again and walked out buying a C200 ?

Reasons for buying C200:

Its brand value is higher. 2Mn more got me a Mercedes over a Honda
Rear Wheel Drive > Front Wheel Drive at least for me.
Would hold better value than an Accord that would depreciate too fast like the Mazda6 mentioned earlier.
My first Mercedes ?

On the other hand, the Accord is definitely a car not to be missed. Had I had the money I would have bought that as well, but then reality is always harsh.

So yeah folks, Bought a C200 and thankful I could get here ! ?

Thanks for all the valuable suggestions ya'll ?

Devinda_Z · August 1, 2020

@zeristo a Honda with an agent warranty sounds like a safe play

If the warranty from the agent is transferable, wouldn't a lightly used say 2018 or so CRV hit the spot?

RWD · August 1, 2020

I would pick the new Accord. Its a lot of car for your money compared to the x1 and CLA. Also with 3 years of free servicing its hassle free. It's quick enough and handles quite well for such a big car. I like the crv too but its so common.

tiv · August 1, 2020

3 hours ago, RWD said:

I would pick the new Accord. Its a lot of car for your money compared to the x1 and CLA. Also with 3 years of free servicing its hassle free. It's quick enough and handles quite well for such a big car. I like the crv too but its so common.

Spot on mate, cla has developed a lot of issues over few months, the grey imports

D*MO models however are doing well. But those are the 180s with minimum trim

iRage · August 1, 2020

Forget about the Premio..that thing is over priced. You get much better options for that price.

So as the others have indicated..stick with the Hondas. If you get it from the agent you get the manufacturer warranty..so that is a good thing. Also, if I am not mistaken...only the Hybrid CRV is assembled in Japan and the gasoline is imported to Japan from Thailand. Atleast that is what the arrangement was in the beginning...things might have changed by now.

As for the Accord...yes..it is a nice handling car (although I never get why they designed it to look like a sloth). Ironically I have a test drive for a 2L Hybrid next week (which is really funny because they want me to take a test drive after I bought a car from somewhere else).

GK_007 · August 1, 2020

Interesting spectrum of choices,but if I were you I would look for a slightly 'used' Civic sedan 1.5 2019-18. Because may be apart from the Premio, I doubt whether every other option will hold their value over 1-2 years even.

Saw one minter for sale sometime back for around 7.5mn if I'm not mistaken. So the first owner has absorbed a hefty depreciation.

Also I would like to add one more option, the new Mazda 3. ?

iRage · August 1, 2020

8 minutes ago, GK_007 said:

Saw one minter for sale sometime back for around 7.5mn if I'm not mistaken. So the first owner has absorbed a hefty depreciation.

Have you seen the prices lately ?

26 minutes ago, GK_007 said:

Also I would like to add one more option, the new Mazda 3.

Mazda fans are going to put out a hit on me for this....the old Axela....I loved it. Compared to what else was out in the market it was a nice performer...good ride..good handling...good throttle response. So had high hopes for the new one...test drove it...and...well...just was not very impressed. It handled like the old one...it drove like the old one...but with little bit less drama and driver demand. It was a nice car...but compared to the Civic and (dare I say it) the Corolla. It just felt like the same old Axela with a new suit on to make it look more "mature". For god sake..never ever get one with a black interior...it was very very black because the shading of the different blacks was not very good. At the Tokyo Motorshow saw the pre-release models with beige interiors which looked much more refined and classy. Rear visibility (especially the side) was poorer than the Civic and the Corolla and the back was quite snug..had wife and the two kids with their booster seats and they were squashed unlike in the other two cars.

GK_007 · August 1, 2020

48 minutes ago, iRage said:

Mazda fans are going to put out a hit on me for this....the old Axela....I loved it. Compared to what else was out in the market it was a nice performer...good ride..good handling...good throttle response. So had high hopes for the new one...test drove it...and...well...just was not very impressed. It handled like the old one...it drove like the old one...but with little bit less drama and driver demand. It was a nice car...but compared to the Civic and (dare I say it) the Corolla. It just felt like the same old Axela with a new suit on to make it look more "mature". For god sake..never ever get one with a black interior...it was very very black because the shading of the different blacks was not very good. At the Tokyo Motorshow saw the pre-release models with beige interiors which looked much more refined and classy. Rear visibility (especially the side) was poorer than the Civic and the Corolla and the back was quite snug..had wife and the two kids with their booster seats and they were squashed unlike in the other two cars.

All your remarks could be absolutely correct. But just look at it. You can do that all day. ?

As I recall @zeristo you had a gen 3 Axela also right ?

kush · August 2, 2020

11 hours ago, iRage said:

Have you seen the prices lately ?

Mazda fans are going to put out a hit on me for this....the old Axela....I loved it. Compared to what else was out in the market it was a nice performer...good ride..good handling...good throttle response. So had high hopes for the new one...test drove it...and...well...just was not very impressed. It handled like the old one...it drove like the old one...but with little bit less drama and driver demand. It was a nice car...but compared to the Civic and (dare I say it) the Corolla. It just felt like the same old Axela with a new suit on to make it look more "mature". FoEr god sake..never ever get one with a black interior...it was very very black because the shading of the different blacks was not very good. At the Tokyo Motorshow saw the pre-release models with beige interiors which looked much more refined and classy. Rear visibility (especially the side) was poorer than the Civic and the Corolla and the back was quite snug..had wife and the two kids with their booster seats and they were squashed unlike in the other two cars.

You are absolutely new Corolla is does not drive or ride like a Corolla. It is in par if not any Euro that are common in SL.

Typical Corolla fans will have issues with the ride which is focused towards handling. Rear seat space which cannot accommodate 3 adults and two children. And of cause boot space which is not sufficient for the annual trip with 5 adults and two children.

It is let down only by the CVT

RWD · August 2, 2020

13 hours ago, iRage said:

As for the Accord...yes..it is a nice handling car (although I never get why they designed it to look like a sloth). Ironically I have a test drive for a 2L Hybrid next week (which is really funny because they want me to take a test drive after I bought a car from somewhere else).

I thaught it looked FUGLY on paper until I saw a few on the roads. From the front and side view it has a nice road presence. It's the back which is terribly Conservative like an old camry. Also agent offers only 1.5Tbut it comes with all the bells and whistles. Compared to the cramped interior of a x1 and CLA this is a much nicer place to be in.

Also I agree with you on the new mazda3. Looks great but current price is close to 10mn and the only locally available spec is the 1.5 skyactiv from the previous generation which is 118hp. A friend of mine has one and I took it for a drive. While it loves to be revved it doesn't feel as punchy as the 1.0 turbo in my civic and doesn't feel as refined going over broken roads either. Could it be the switch to the torsion beam? Because I owned a previous gen mazda3 for 5 years and it handled better and felt smoother. But the interior and feel of the switchgear is absolutely gorgeous and feels like you are in an Euro unlike civic and corolla. Crisper steering too.

iRage · August 2, 2020

4 hours ago, RWD said:

I thaught it looked FUGLY on paper until I saw a few on the roads. From the front and side view it has a nice road presence. It's the back which is terribly Conservative like an old camry. Also agent offers only 1.5Tbut it comes with all the bells and whistles. Compared to the cramped interior of a x1 and CLA this is a much nicer place to be in.

Also I agree with you on the new mazda3. Looks great but current price is close to 10mn and the only locally available spec is the 1.5 skyactiv from the previous generation which is 118hp. A friend of mine has one and I took it for a drive. While it loves to be revved it doesn't feel as punchy as the 1.0 turbo in my civic and doesn't feel as refined going over broken roads either. Could it be the switch to the torsion beam? Because I owned a previous gen mazda3 for 5 years and it handled better and felt smoother. But the interior and feel of the switchgear is absolutely gorgeous and feels like you are in an Euro unlike civic and corolla. Crisper steering too.

IKR ? The previous one was so good..that there were high expectations for the new one which didn't exactly get delivered. Nothing wrong with the car...looks and feels more refined..but then every minute of the test drive I kept on thinking I liked the way the old one did better and when it didn't...I was more forgiving of the older one than for the new one....

fiat fan · August 2, 2020

I’m no resale value buyya. Far from it. But our 2016 Mazda 6 -2.5 top of the line with Everything they came with was bought Bnew for 11mil(company.Overpriced much). Its worth 6.5 mil now. 4.5 mil hit in 3-4 years.

Our A6 of same age with all the bells cost 12.5 , still worth 10.5

So much for Jap resale “Market”.

plus people claim the Mazdas have better cabins. Not even close. I admit it is better than other japs and maybe low end euros. But its still a jap with a little sizzle. Cant compare the two.

Sorry to offend anybody, but a real euro car enthusiast will not consider a Jap. Whatever the logical reasons people may argue. Even the mid range euros are better at everything. Specially the driving.

Which reminds me, don't buy a Lexus with CVT. You will hate life.

kush · August 2, 2020

2 hours ago, fiat fan said:

Which reminds me, don't buy a Lexus with CVT. You will hate life.

Or any thing with CVT unless you crawl in the morning and evening or may be the highway runs

ramishkad · August 2, 2020

After 13 years of driving various Japs, I recently switched to an euro. While there are cons of owning an Euro in SL, I don't think I'll ever switch to a Jap again. Just saying...

fiat fan · August 2, 2020

7 hours ago, kush said:

Or any thing with CVT unless you crawl in the morning and evening or may be the highway runs

Even then, I dont think I can live with it. The groan and lack of acceleration is embarrassing and ear rape. I would rather have a manual, even though it's a hassle in traffic.

vag2 · August 2, 2020

10 hours ago, fiat fan said:

A real euro car enthusiast will not consider a Jap. Whatever the logical reasons people may argue. Even the mid range euros are better at everything. Specially the driving.

Spot on, can't help feeling hopeless when people recommend premios, priass and axios to euro car drivers (although they might be sensible considering our country specific factors like spare parts, mechanics etc ?)

iRage · August 2, 2020

16 hours ago, fiat fan said:

Which reminds me, don't buy a Lexus with CVT. You will hate life.

That applies to pretty much all Japanese CVTs. Toyota tried to make it more interesting with the new Direct Shift CVTs....but nah...yes...the launch off is ok..but beyond that it is still the rubber strap pulling whiny unit.

7 hours ago, ramishkad said:

After 13 years of driving various Japs, I recently switched to an euro. While there are cons of owning an Euro in SL, I don't think I'll ever switch to a Jap again. Just saying...

Yes...the Euros have a certain level of refinement...however you will be surprised. Quite a few of the Japanese manufacturers (and even Koreans) are doing a lot of their preliminary design and final tuning work through their European divisions. So it is interesting to see how some of the typical cars renowned for their boredom and cheapness have actually changed. The Corolla and Yaris were quite surprising. Even the Mazda 3...so like JB (not 007..the other one...the one that sings) said.."Never say never" Interestingly this is also causing an issue for the Japanese manufacturers in their home market. Toyota is have seen a bit of a dip in their popular models like the Crown and Corolla for being too youthful and sporty. Same goes with the Yaris (which is why they feel a need for the Aqua in the same segment...apparently the Aqua will be focused more towards the lazy type of driving)

Edited August 3, 2020 by iRage

Kavvz · August 3, 2020

9 hours ago, fiat fan said:

Even then, I dont think I can live with it. The groan and lack of acceleration is embarrassing and ear rape. I would rather have a manual, even though it's a hassle in traffic.

I would say drive a couple of the newer CVT's (especially the more higher end models) and you might be suprised. Its no comparison to a a DCT or a well sorted TC transmission, but the larger engine capacity in the more high-end models and the artificial shift points, cut out a lot of the whining and highway drone noticed in the entry level models...

Magnum · August 3, 2020

2 hours ago, Kavvz said:

I would say drive a couple of the newer CVT's (especially the more higher end models) and you might be suprised. Its no comparison to a a DCT or a well sorted TC transmission, but the larger engine capacity in the more high-end models and the artificial shift points, cut out a lot of the whining and highway drone noticed in the entry level models...

Spot, CVT is one of the best transmissions system, but the problem is, when they are installed on cheaper cars they tune the transmission to choose a gearing where the engine works at the most economical point rather than making most of its power capability.

The thing with Japanese cars we get in SL is that we rarely get the top end models. For example majority of the Mark IIs which came down were with the 1G-FE instead of the famous 1JZ turbo, Mark X were all 2.5L, dont think think any of the 3.0L models came down. Same with the Crown, I don't think any of them had the 3GR or 2GR. Plus I'm not sure whether we get any Crown Majesta or Celsior in SL.

RWD · August 3, 2020

23 hours ago, fiat fan said:

I’m no resale value buyya. Far from it. But our 2016 Mazda 6 -2.5 top of the line with Everything they came with was bought Bnew for 11mil(company.Overpriced much). Its worth 6.5 mil now. 4.5 mil hit in 3-4 years.

Our A6 of same age with all the bells cost 12.5 , still worth 10.5

So much for Jap resale “Market”.

plus people claim the Mazdas have better cabins. Not even close. I admit it is better than other japs and maybe low end euros. But its still a jap with a little sizzle. Cant compare the two.

Sorry to offend anybody, but a real euro car enthusiast will not consider a Jap. Whatever the logical reasons people may argue. Even the mid range euros are better at everything. Specially the driving.

Which reminds me, don't buy a Lexus with CVT. You will hate life.

I hear you mate- but depreciation of the M6 has a lot to do with the relatively big engine. Its the same for any big displacement car in SL which is over a 2.0l apart from perhaps the big SUV's like the Montero, Prado and Landcruisers (well perhaps a few Mercs as well). That's always been the way its been and as the first owner you are always going to take a big hit. 2nd and 3rd owners will be better off and that's where the prices generally hold for a while. Your A6 is probably the 1.8T right?

RWD · August 3, 2020

3 hours ago, Kavvz said:

I would say drive a couple of the newer CVT's (especially the more higher end models) and you might be suprised. Its no comparison to a a DCT or a well sorted TC transmission, but the larger engine capacity in the more high-end models and the artificial shift points, cut out a lot of the whining and highway drone noticed in the entry level models...

They've also come a long way. Drive a Nissan Primera or X-Trail from the early 2000's which had CVT mated to 2.0 litre engines. Absolutely diabolical! Sounded like one of those old horrible sewing machines when you put your foot down. CVT's of today are much better- even the entry level ones.

Edited August 3, 2020 by RWD

Kavvz · August 3, 2020

On 7/31/2020 at 7:19 AM, zeristo said:

is it advisable to go for something German like,

Merc CLA

BMW X1

Merc C200 (lower spec models)

Interesting that there aren't any fans of the MB C200 here? The X1 I understand, it's barely a BMW. The CLA I'm not so sure about, I like the styling but like the X1, it's hardly a Merc.

Different story with the C class though. But why isn't the C200 flying out the door these days with the tax structure the way it is?

And even though the C200 is pretty underpowered (seriously, with that engine I imagine a 20 yr old FB13 could spank it on the highway or at traffic lights? Biggest insult ever!) But other than the weak engine, the interior is very nice, seriously punching above its class there, and it's a pretty nice looking car overall. You can't fault those body lines or the front fascia; it's the best the C class ever looked...

Shit driver's car yes. But as a commuter-box, and for parading around in, not a bad car to be in...You guys don't seem too keen on it though?What am I missing? It can't be that unpopular?

fiat fan · August 3, 2020

14 hours ago, Kavvz said:

I would say drive a couple of the newer CVT's (especially the more higher end models) and you might be suprised. Its no comparison to a a DCT or a well sorted TC transmission, but the larger engine capacity in the more high-end models and the artificial shift points, cut out a lot of the whining and highway drone noticed in the entry level models...

The list of CVT’s I have driven-

2015 Corolla 2 liter. Terrible.

2018 Camry 2.5 4 cyl / 3.5 V6. Kinda ok. Still nasty.

2017 HRV. 2liter. Load its noisy.

2019 Lexus ux200. 2 liter. Nasty slow and noisy.

plus a few more that I cant remember.

having worked at Toyota, almost all their CVT is iyaaaa.

Also its my 500th post(8 years on AL).

fiat fan · August 3, 2020

11 hours ago, RWD said:

I hear you mate- but depreciation of the M6 has a lot to do with the relatively big engine. Its the same for any big displacement car in SL which is over a 2.0l apart from perhaps the big SUV's like the Montero, Prado and Landcruisers (well perhaps a few Mercs as well). That's always been the way its been and as the first owner you are always going to take a big hit. 2nd and 3rd owners will be better off and that's where the prices generally hold for a while. Your A6 is probably the 1.8T right?

I agree that the Mazda looses value because of the 2.5 engine. Im trying to say that you cant compare a Mazda to a German. Nobody should spend that much on a jap.

Side note. An Accord for 12.9m? My goodness. I would eat the cash with tomato sauce. Better than buying a Honda for that money.

The A6 has a 3.0 liter Supercharged engine. Quattro.

fiat fan · August 3, 2020

7 hours ago, Kavvz said:

Interesting that there aren't any fans of the MB C200 here? The X1 I understand, it's barely a BMW. The CLA I'm not so sure about, I like the styling but like the X1, it's hardly a Merc.

Different story with the C class though. But why isn't the C200 flying out the door these days with the tax structure the way it is?

And even though the C200 is pretty underpowered (seriously, with that engine I imagine a 20 yr old FB13 could spank it on the highway or at traffic lights? Biggest insult ever!) But other than the weak engine, the interior is very nice, seriously punching above its class there, and it's a pretty nice looking car overall. You can't fault those body lines or the front fascia; it's the best the C class ever looked...

Shit driver's car yes. But as a commuter-box, and for parading around in, not a bad car to be in...You guys don't seem too keen on it though?What am I missing? It can't be that unpopular?

The 2020 X1 is actually pretty good. But small 3cyl engines and FWD means it drives crap. Still looks and feels premium.

The CLA is the new money mobile. The “apith benz eke yanne” special. Has lots of issues with quality and the tech inside. Many already having screen replacements.

These modern cars with waay too much tech, is a Potential financial/environmental nightmare in few years.

The C class is being sold in bucket loads. Many new rich(doing better than CLA crowd) get it. Good car, but overpriced. Corona jumped the prices by 3mil.

People are buying cars like there is no Pandemic. Just look around social media. Many people pay over 1mil mark up like its nothing.

Bugger I know got a quotation from D*MO for the GLB200 at 12.9Million. After the restrictions he bought one from a shady sale for 18.9 Million(I kid you not). He was like machan, its gonna be more expensive in the future. No wonder politicians are ruining this country and still getting so much votes.

rant over.